Author Topic: Fashion vs. Tradition  (Read 13665 times)

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BuffaloFang

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #105 on: December 13, 2011, 05:09:31 PM »
Perhaps "calling out" is not the right term, but "bringing it to her attention" might be the phrase.  I'm not saying I ever would, and I agree that getting worked up over such things is silly.  But I don't think it'd be off base to enlighten someone on the meaning or history of something they're wearing, if it's only done in an FYI manner.  Not in a chiding "you don't deserve to wear this" manner.

I mean, let's say there's a symbol that meant something in the BDSM community, but somehow it became a fashion trend.  I'd assume if someone caught you wearing it and knew the connotations of it, you'd want to know what it meant so you could decide whether you would want to continue wearing it anyway or if you want to stop. If enough people decide they don't care, it just looks cool, then that's how fashion evolves, which seems to be what happened to these boots.  But I still don't think it'd be rude to tell her the origins of the fashion.

barefoot_girl

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #106 on: December 13, 2011, 05:34:09 PM »
Maybe things are different in the US hunting community, but here in the UK, no-one would bat an eyelid at Layla's choice of boots, even people who actually hunt (like me). If she actually wore them out hunting, people would look at her askance, but given that she doesn't hunt and is clearly wearing them as a fashion item, no-one would think twice.

The boots she is wearing are fashion boots styled like hunting boots. When I go hunting, I dress up like a nineteenth century man, and no-one bats an eyelid. I'm afraid i think Cicely is rather insecure and silly, and if she tried the "Layla's boots are not appropriate" with people in my hunt, we'd laugh at her and think her something of a silly snob.

Lady Godiva

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #107 on: December 13, 2011, 07:17:05 PM »
Oh, for pity's sake!  Cecily sounds like she views herself as the formidable Master of Foxhounds who roundly chastises any member of the field who dares to show up at the covert side with the wrong color stock tie or their horse's mane braided on the wrong side. I bet she checks to see if lady riders are carrying proper sherry in their hunting flasks (port is for gentlemen only!) and that the edges are cut off the bread on their sandwiches. And there must be a pair of string gloves under the billets in case of rain, and the cracker on the hunt whip must be the proper color. (Can you tell that I used to ride in formal Hunt Appointment classes in horse shows?)

Speaking as a lifelong foxhunter who's earned her colors and who's worked for a highly traditional Master of Foxhounds, Cecily needs to chill. Nobody cares what anyone wears as a fashion accessory outside the hunting field, and some of the best foxhunters I ever had the privilege to hunt with didn't care if you wore torn breeches and an army jacket, as long as you knew & cared about hounds and hunting, rode well, and had good hunting manners.  Layla is not a foxhunter, and fashion boots aren't intended to conform to hunt livery. All Cecily can possibly do is astound, if not offend, Layla if she brings this up in any way except as a joke.

In my hunt, overly persnickety people who went "tut tut" about other people's attire (and riding) were referred to as "the b*tch pack."
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 08:39:37 PM by Lady Godiva »

Sharnita

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #108 on: December 13, 2011, 08:09:45 PM »
Maybe things are different in the US hunting community, but here in the UK, no-one would bat an eyelid at Layla's choice of boots, even people who actually hunt (like me). If she actually wore them out hunting, people would look at her askance, but given that she doesn't hunt and is clearly wearing them as a fashion item, no-one would think twice.

The boots she is wearing are fashion boots styled like hunting boots. When I go hunting, I dress up like a nineteenth century man, and no-one bats an eyelid. I'm afraid i think Cicely is rather insecure and silly, and if she tried the "Layla's boots are not appropriate" with people in my hunt, we'd laugh at her and think her something of a silly snob.

That is good to hear.  I don't know anybody who hunts but reading that people in the fox hunting community might mock her made me seriously question what kind of people were so unkind.  I'm glad to hear that Cecily is not representative.

Bibliophile

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #109 on: December 14, 2011, 08:56:42 AM »
Cecily needs to chill. Nobody cares what anyone wears as a fashion accessory outside the hunting field...

In my hunt, overly persnickety people who went "tut tut" about other people's attire (and riding) were referred to as "the b*tch pack."

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Anniissa

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #110 on: December 14, 2011, 10:53:44 AM »
Maybe things are different in the US hunting community, but here in the UK, no-one would bat an eyelid at Layla's choice of boots, even people who actually hunt (like me). If she actually wore them out hunting, people would look at her askance, but given that she doesn't hunt and is clearly wearing them as a fashion item, no-one would think twice.

The boots she is wearing are fashion boots styled like hunting boots. When I go hunting, I dress up like a nineteenth century man, and no-one bats an eyelid. I'm afraid i think Cicely is rather insecure and silly, and if she tried the "Layla's boots are not appropriate" with people in my hunt, we'd laugh at her and think her something of a silly snob.

I don't hunt but growing up in the countryside know several people who do and they all agree with this. They thought it was the most bizarre thing to get worried about. The chap who has been involved with his local hunt the longest said he was thrilled to find out he could at last claim to own one fashionable item  :D Obviously, if she were actually to wear them to take part in a hunt I expect someone might mention the history but certainly not think less of her.

Sluggyfan

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #111 on: December 14, 2011, 11:37:48 AM »
I just want to point out that wearing a karategi is in no way like wearing fashion riding boots. Why? Because currently, karategi are NOT in mainstream fashion. Few people are traipsing around in gi and belts because they think they look cool. The boots, however, are indeed in fashion right now. They are marketed as pretty boots to wear about town and they are purposefully sold for that reason. Gi aren't available in stores for normal wear and there is no push to wear them as street clothes. Someone wearing a gi would probably get a double look, and the immediate assumption would be that they are in martial arts. The boots are everywhere at the moment.

That's not to say that if someone DID wear a gi for fashion purposes at the moment that they shouldn't be allowed to without some nasty member of the martial arts community "calling them out". But gi are not in fashion, and to wear one as casual clothes is a very specific, individualistic, fashion decision -- unlike the boots, which can be picked up at any local department store. It is unfair to compare gi to riding boots because the average perception of their uses is completely different in society as a whole.

Again, I'd bring up sports jerseys as the best comparison. Until Cecily complains to the unathletic guy wearing a basketball jersey (with someone else's name on it, no less!) about how he's "posing" as a member of the team "just for the look" and that this is "tacky", she hasn't a leg to stand on.



WillyNilly

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #112 on: December 14, 2011, 11:48:54 AM »
I just want to point out that wearing a karategi is in no way like wearing fashion riding boots. Why? Because currently, karategi are NOT in mainstream fashion. Few people are traipsing around in gi and belts because they think they look cool. The boots, however, are indeed in fashion right now. They are marketed as pretty boots to wear about town and they are purposefully sold for that reason. Gi aren't available in stores for normal wear and there is no push to wear them as street clothes. Someone wearing a gi would probably get a double look, and the immediate assumption would be that they are in martial arts. The boots are everywhere at the moment.

That's not to say that if someone DID wear a gi for fashion purposes at the moment that they shouldn't be allowed to without some nasty member of the martial arts community "calling them out". But gi are not in fashion, and to wear one as casual clothes is a very specific, individualistic, fashion decision -- unlike the boots, which can be picked up at any local department store. It is unfair to compare gi to riding boots because the average perception of their uses is completely different in society as a whole.

Again, I'd bring up sports jerseys as the best comparison. Until Cecily complains to the unathletic guy wearing a basketball jersey (with someone else's name on it, no less!) about how he's "posing" as a member of the team "just for the look" and that this is "tacky", she hasn't a leg to stand on.

Well, ok but have a look at this:
http://www.luxuryvacationsource.com/2010/08/resort-2011-trend-crisp-white-suits/

Its clearly (at least to my uneducated in karate/martial arts eye) inspired by a gi, but its also clearly fashion.  I would think its absurdly obvious this woman is wearing this for fashion, not for fighting.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 11:58:53 AM by WillyNilly »

Sluggyfan

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #113 on: December 14, 2011, 11:57:21 AM »
Willy, I can't reach the link. It redirects me elsewhere.

But I question the difference between "inspired by" and "looks exactly like." The boots, save for the higher-heeled versions, are almost exactly like the real deal. If this is just a fluffy, belted shirt with wide sleeves, that is actually a pretty common street clothes look originally from Asia. If it's a white coat with wide sleeves and a colored belt, then we're closer to what the riding boots are.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 12:07:50 PM by Sluggyfan »



starbuck

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #114 on: December 14, 2011, 11:59:38 AM »
Something to consider too is that Cecily would likely not be content just bringing it to one's attention. Most people who are are fond of "I'm just bringing it to your attention" behaviors generally do so with a purpose: to get you to stop doing whatever it is you are doing, so they can stop being offended/irritated by it. So mentioning might actually worsen the irritating for Cecily when friend doesn't stop wearing the boots.

Disclaimer: I own a Starfleet uniform shirt. I am not Captain Picard. =D

LadyClaire

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #115 on: December 14, 2011, 12:00:05 PM »
Willy, I can't reach the link. It redirects me elsewhere.

But I question the difference between "inspired by" and "looks exactly like." The boots, save for the higher-heeled versions, are almost exactly like the real deal. If this is just a fluffy, belted shirt with wide sleeves, that is actually a pretty common street clothes look originally from Asia. If it's a white coat with wide sleeves and a colored belt, then we're closer to what the riding boots are.




this is the picture in question.

WillyNilly

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #116 on: December 14, 2011, 12:00:45 PM »
Willy, I can't reach the link. It redirects me elsewhere.

But I question the difference between "inspired by" and "looks exactly like." The boots, save for the higher-heeled versions, are almost exactly like the real deal. If this is just a fluffy, belted shirt with wide sleeves, that is actually a pretty common street clothes look originally from Asia. If it's a white coat with wide sleeves and a colored belt, then we're closer to what the riding boots are.

I think I found a better link.  Try this:
http://www.luxuryvacationsource.com/2010/08/resort-2011-trend-crisp-white-suits/

It says its "kimono inspired" but to me, at first glance its more gi since its pants, whereas I (again not an expert or educated in Asian fashions) think of a kimono as a dress.

ETA: thanks LadyClaire, thats it!

LadyClaire

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #117 on: December 14, 2011, 12:06:32 PM »
for sake of comparison, a typical karate gi:




Sluggyfan

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #118 on: December 14, 2011, 12:08:21 PM »
Yay, I can see it!

Okay, the belt is interesting, and definitely feels like it was influenced by gi. However, I'd say that with the collar, the sleeves (with tight, long cuffs), the flowy pants and the hat, that this white suit is actually riffing on the late 70s early 80s summer suits of the Nantucket set. Looks like something I'd see on a yaht in "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying".



Blondie

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Re: Fashion vs. Tradition
« Reply #119 on: December 14, 2011, 12:51:54 PM »
I would advise against even bringing up the history behind the boots. I speak from experience. I sail. I am very into the culture that surrounds it, my whole family participates, its something I know a lot about. My dad taught us the code flags when we were little, and it is something I have always remembered, and it is fun in popular culture to see where they will pop up. I was with friends in high school, and one had a new belt, with signal flags all around. I usually look to see if they spell out anything, as sometimes designers will put something in there, altho more often than not, it is random. Well, dead center in the back of this belt it spelled out a four letter word starting with f.... Friend was not amused when this was pointed out, and to the best of my knowledge never wore it again, which is a shame as it was a nice belt, and honestly, how often are you going to run into someone who knows? But it hurt friends idea of the belt. Were I to see it now, I would chuckle to myself, and let it go. Just because you know something doesn't mean you have to share.
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