Author Topic: Religious presents for athiests' children  (Read 8973 times)

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Isisnin

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2011, 06:20:07 PM »
Since DD is apparently a toddler (since the Little People series is for toddlers), she probably only wanted it because it's cute not because it represents a religious story.  the bully on the other site is turning a child's "I want a cute toy"  into the child being denied their religious preference.  ::)

FYI, apparently there is a Little Peoples Farm.  She'd probably like that  - it'll include most all the same animals!

Ceallach

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2011, 06:26:59 PM »
On the flip side, as somebody who is religious, I'd rather people didn't have their kids treat a nativitvy set like it was some random weeble-wobble playset or something.  I get that they don't believe in it but it would bother me if there was not really any recognition of it as a meaningful display for other people if you know what I mean.

I don't think that's something you can decide for other families.

I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to offer my perspective.

Oh ok, when you worded it as 'I'd rather people didn't' I thought you were implying that they shouldn't.

When somebody starts a sentence with "I'd rather..." it usually indicates they are stating their own opinion/preference, not suggesting that everybody else should necessarily share that view.   :)

I agree with you that nobody can stop other people using their possessions as they see fit, and I've actually seen this cause issues amongst families I know.  Ironically it's often between families who are both religious, but have different ideas about what is appropriate or place different significance on certain items.   Somebody who is religious can be greatly upset by seeing a child play with an item that has religious significance to them.  It's definitely an understandable position.  But it becomes a problem when they start saying "You can't do that" or chiding each other's children for playing with something that actually belongs to the child in question.  (Which I'm sure nobody here would do).
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Bluenomi

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2011, 06:33:00 PM »
Since DD is apparently a toddler (since the Little People series is for toddlers), she probably only wanted it because it's cute not because it represents a religious story.  the bully on the other site is turning a child's "I want a cute toy"  into the child being denied their religious preference.  ::)

FYI, apparently there is a Little Peoples Farm.  She'd probably like that  - it'll include most all the same animals!

That's actually what DSM ended up getting DD and she opened it last night and loves it! It makes noises so is much cooler in DD's eyes than a nativity set which doesn't  ;D

kherbert05

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2011, 06:42:37 PM »
OP this is no different than not wanting your child to have princess stuff, Disney stuff, toy guns and so on. They politely asked, you politely answered. So all is fine.

For the purpose of debate I would turn this around on the bully. "Fine so it is ok for an atheist to give your child "The Magic of Reality" by Richard Dawkins, right? After all it is beautifully illustrated science book."

Once I was trapped with this woman who kept insisting that praying in school wouldn't hurt (insert non Protestant religions) to pray. I finally said fine when I'm a teacher I'll teach your child the Hail Mary the first day of school. She sputtered and said she didn't want her kids learning "that". I said and that is how  (long list of nonprotestant religions) feel about your prayers being forced down their kids throats. Professor wasn't particularly happy - but the the woman would not shut up and the professor let her go on for 1/2 an hour in a 50 min class.
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Isisnin

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2011, 04:05:14 AM »
Since DD is apparently a toddler (since the Little People series is for toddlers), she probably only wanted it because it's cute not because it represents a religious story.  the bully on the other site is turning a child's "I want a cute toy"  into the child being denied their religious preference.  ::)

FYI, apparently there is a Little Peoples Farm.  She'd probably like that  - it'll include most all the same animals!

That's actually what DSM ended up getting DD and she opened it last night and loves it! It makes noises so is much cooler in DD's eyes than a nativity set which doesn't   ;D


Well, the nativity was a silent night! LOL!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 11:11:34 AM by Isisnin »

zyrs

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2011, 11:05:08 AM »
You were not rude at all.  You were respected and respectful during the exchange about the nativity set.  You are also totally within your parental rights to limit what things your child is exposed to at such an early age.  And it is wonderful that your family respects you and your husband so that they ask first.

Ignore the forum poster and let them flame out.


SamiHami

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2011, 11:17:13 AM »
Just curious-and not being snarky, I promise-but it seems to me that Christmas is a Christian celebration of the birth of Christ, yet atheists and people of non-Christian faiths choose to celebrate it as a "secular" holiday, which it isn't. Yet you never hear of atheists choosing to celebrate Chanukah or Ramadan or other non-Christian celebrations in a secular way. It just strikes me as odd and sort of a double standard.

What have you got? Is it food? Is it for me? I want it whatever it is!

567Kate

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2011, 11:30:57 AM »
Just curious-and not being snarky, I promise-but it seems to me that Christmas is a Christian celebration of the birth of Christ, yet atheists and people of non-Christian faiths choose to celebrate it as a "secular" holiday, which it isn't. Yet you never hear of atheists choosing to celebrate Chanukah or Ramadan or other non-Christian celebrations in a secular way. It just strikes me as odd and sort of a double standard.

To be fair, I don't get Chanukah or Ramadan as a day off from work, along with my entire family.

O'Dell

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2011, 11:31:08 AM »
Just curious-and not being snarky, I promise-but it seems to me that Christmas is a Christian celebration of the birth of Christ, yet atheists and people of non-Christian faiths choose to celebrate it as a "secular" holiday, which it isn't. Yet you never hear of atheists choosing to celebrate Chanukah or Ramadan or other non-Christian celebrations in a secular way. It just strikes me as odd and sort of a double standard.

Please google the history of christmas if you are confused by this. There are plenty of online articles that should provide clarity. :)
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Ereine

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2011, 11:44:54 AM »
Christmas is part of my culture (and in my culture it includes many non-Christian elements, including the name) and has been celebrated by my ancestors for hundreds of years. It's also the biggest celebration in my country and everything is about Christmas for weeks. I could could celebrate the 17th of February of course but it lacks all the athmosphere, days off and traditional foods. Plus in a cold dark country it seems like a good idea to celebrate the return of the sun (as evidenced by the countless celebrations around this time of year). I have none of that connection to Ramadan or Hanukkah and though there are people in my country who celebrate them, they're not part of my culture.

SamiHami

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2011, 11:48:47 AM »
Just seems like a double standard to me.

What have you got? Is it food? Is it for me? I want it whatever it is!

Larrabee

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2011, 11:51:11 AM »
Just curious-and not being snarky, I promise-but it seems to me that Christmas is a Christian celebration of the birth of Christ, yet atheists and people of non-Christian faiths choose to celebrate it as a "secular" holiday, which it isn't. Yet you never hear of atheists choosing to celebrate Chanukah or Ramadan or other non-Christian celebrations in a secular way. It just strikes me as odd and sort of a double standard.

Very briefly:

Pretty much every culture in existence has come up with a way to have a nice celebration of food, light and good cheer somewhere around the winter solstice where the days are short and everybody could do with a bit of a boost.

Early Christians took elements of older pagan and Roman festivals and beliefs and incorporated them into Christmas to make the transition easier.  You'll notice that there are no mentions of Christmas trees, turkey dinners, yule logs etc. in the bible, and no indication that Jesus was actually born on the 25th December.

For lots of non religious people in western countries, Christmas is celebrated as a mid winter cheer up festival, a chance to enjoy good food and drink with good friends and family, a time to have a day off work and do a little celebrating when its otherwise cold, dark and generally depressing.  It makes sense to do this at Christmas rather than Eid, Diwali or Chanukah as its a national holiday, the logistics are easier and Christmas is part of their culture even if its not part of their religion.

Neither way of viewing Christmas is more right than the other.

(I do actually celebrate Diwali in a non religious way by attending the awesome fireworks display in my city.)

Betelnut

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2011, 11:52:14 AM »
Just curious-and not being snarky, I promise-but it seems to me that Christmas is a Christian celebration of the birth of Christ, yet atheists and people of non-Christian faiths choose to celebrate it as a "secular" holiday, which it isn't. Yet you never hear of atheists choosing to celebrate Chanukah or Ramadan or other non-Christian celebrations in a secular way. It just strikes me as odd and sort of a double standard.

I live in a predominately Christian society (the U.S.), have Christian holidays off from work and come from a Christian background (although my folks were both atheists).  I'm sure if I were raised in Israel or Saudi Arabia and came from a Jewish or Muslim family (but were still atheist) I would celebrate some of the holidays and abide by some of the fun aspects of those religion's traditions.

Plus, Christmas is a very secular holiday once you start looking at it.  Lights? Food? Tree?  Presents?  All secular.  And,   frankly, it is all about the fun and warm fuzzies I get.
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Betelnut

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2011, 11:52:51 AM »
Just seems like a double standard to me.

What standard am I doubling?
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violinp

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Re: Religious presents for athiests' children
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2011, 11:56:36 AM »
Just seems like a double standard to me.

What standard am I doubling?

I'm assuming that SamiHami thinks it odd for someone to celebrate a holiday centered around a specific event in a specific religion when the celebrant doesn't believe in that religion.
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