Is it rude to change up traditional holiday family meal?

[Wonderflonium]

I'd be more on her side if it weren't for the fact that the OP's friend offered to bring the country ham and was that offer was declined. I wonder if she'd feel the same about the gravy and French toast.

[Sharnita]

I'd be more on her side if it weren't for the fact that the OP's friend offered to bring the country ham and was that offer was declined. I wonder if she'd feel the same about the gravy and French toast.

I am not sure if "iI will bring country ham" meant "I will cook country ham" or "I will bring it for oyu to cook it".  Or even if the first was intended but she heard the second.

[Thipu1]

This is a theme that keeps coming up again and again when families are discussed.

Some family members will Be dead set that the way Grandmother celebrated the holidays is the only
 proper way to do it.  perhaps, these people need to take a step back and look at things in a different way.

Families will change over the generations.  People from other families marry into the mix.  It has to be recognized that these people have family traditions of their own that should also be respected.

Our family is a good example.  When we first married, SIL was the author of the Thanksgiving feast.  She provided turkey with a pork sausage stuffing.  There were also home-made pecan pies and home-made bread as well as a variety of vegetables.

Over the years, the family has changed a lot. 

One of SIL's children now keeps Kosher.  No more pork sausage stuffing.

Another of SIL's children and his family are now Vegan.  So much for the turkey.

The third of SIL's children has a real problem with gluten.  Bye, bye traditional home-made pies and bread.

One of SIL's grandchildren has severe nut allergies.  Another cannot tolerate lactose at all.  It's reached the point that almost everyone coming to the family feast must bring his or her own food.

Does this mean that the family can't enjoy a great meal? 

Not at all.  It just means that the meal has to change.

[Searcher]

In general, I don't think it's rude not to serve what the family has come to see as "tradition" and I do think it's rude for a guest to criticize hospitality.

Of course, that's strict etiquette; in terms of relationships, springing this on the guests could be hurtful to them.  I'd give them a heads-up that you plan to serve something other than what was always served in the past.  Should any guest make a negative remark about that, well, they are free to not attend.

[camlan]

In general, I don't think it's rude not to serve what the family has come to see as "tradition" and I do think it's rude for a guest to criticize hospitality.

Of course, that's strict etiquette; in terms of relationships, springing this on the guests could be hurtful to them.  I'd give them a heads-up that you plan to serve something other than what was always served in the past.  Should any guest make a negative remark about that, well, they are free to not attend.

And that's what seems to have almost happened here. The sister was polite and informed her family of the changes, and some of them were considering skipping the family get-together so that they could have gravy and biscuits.

There's nothing in etiquette that says you must attend a family dinner where the menu is not exactly what you were expecting. But it sure would send a strong message that the food was more important than seeing your family.

[Searcher]

In general, I don't think it's rude not to serve what the family has come to see as "tradition" and I do think it's rude for a guest to criticize hospitality.

Of course, that's strict etiquette; in terms of relationships, springing this on the guests could be hurtful to them.  I'd give them a heads-up that you plan to serve something other than what was always served in the past.  Should any guest make a negative remark about that, well, they are free to not attend.

And that's what seems to have almost happened here. The sister was polite and informed her family of the changes, and some of them were considering skipping the family get-together so that they could have gravy and biscuits.

There's nothing in etiquette that says you must attend a family dinner where the menu is not exactly what you were expecting. But it sure would send a strong message that the food was more important than seeing your family.

Exactly.  But that's just not something etiquette can regulate-it doesn't require that family members attend a get-together where the menu is not to their taste.  It's certainly a sad message to send, but unfortunately, etiquette calls for accepting that as long as you get the word out politely about your hospitality, your would-be guests aren't required to accept it even if they are your loved ones.

[Two Ravens]

How exact does it have to be, though?  It isn't like she skipped the ham entirely.  If the family is used to one turkey with one kind of brine is it rude to cook the turkey with a different brine?  I don't see going from country ham to Honeybaked on the same level as going from pancakes to lasagna.

But she's also not doing the gravy and french toast, which may have been some people's favorites.  This is reminding me of a thread from a few years ago, where one family member was hosting Thanksgiving, but decided that there would be no football, since her family didn't normally watch it. Football fans in the family rebelled, and it caused lots of hurt feelings on both sides.

[Searcher]

How exact does it have to be, though?  It isn't like she skipped the ham entirely.  If the family is used to one turkey with one kind of brine is it rude to cook the turkey with a different brine?  I don't see going from country ham to Honeybaked on the same level as going from pancakes to lasagna.

But she's also not doing the gravy and french toast, which may have been some people's favorites.  This is reminding me of a thread from a few years ago, where one family member was hosting Thanksgiving, but decided that there would be no football, since her family didn't normally watch it. Football fans in the family rebelled, and it caused lots of hurt feelings on both sides.

She had the right not to have the football at her hosted event-and her guests had the right not to accept her invitation.  But that assumes that she'd announced in advance that there would be no football.  If she hadn't, and didn't do anything to let her guests know not to expect it, but just sprung it on them when they arrived, while strictly speaking that's not rude, it doesn't strike me as considerate.

[Two Ravens]

How exact does it have to be, though?  It isn't like she skipped the ham entirely.  If the family is used to one turkey with one kind of brine is it rude to cook the turkey with a different brine?  I don't see going from country ham to Honeybaked on the same level as going from pancakes to lasagna.

But she's also not doing the gravy and french toast, which may have been some people's favorites.  This is reminding me of a thread from a few years ago, where one family member was hosting Thanksgiving, but decided that there would be no football, since her family didn't normally watch it. Football fans in the family rebelled, and it caused lots of hurt feelings on both sides.

She had the right not to have the football at her hosted event-and her guests had the right not to accept her invitation.  But that assumes that she'd announced in advance that there would be no football.  If she hadn't, and didn't do anything to let her guests know not to expect it, but just sprung it on them when they arrived, while strictly speaking that's not rude, it doesn't strike me as considerate.

But what I'm saying is that either way, hurt feeling tend to result.  Evidenced in this this thread, feeling tend to run either "You care so much about football/ham/gravy, it matters more than seeing your faaaammmmily(!!)" or "You know this is important to us, and we have done it this way for years, but you are so concerned about doing things your own way, you don't care." Sounds like a no-win situation, to me.

[Searcher]

How exact does it have to be, though?  It isn't like she skipped the ham entirely.  If the family is used to one turkey with one kind of brine is it rude to cook the turkey with a different brine?  I don't see going from country ham to Honeybaked on the same level as going from pancakes to lasagna.

But she's also not doing the gravy and french toast, which may have been some people's favorites.  This is reminding me of a thread from a few years ago, where one family member was hosting Thanksgiving, but decided that there would be no football, since her family didn't normally watch it. Football fans in the family rebelled, and it caused lots of hurt feelings on both sides.

She had the right not to have the football at her hosted event-and her guests had the right not to accept her invitation.  But that assumes that she'd announced in advance that there would be no football.  If she hadn't, and didn't do anything to let her guests know not to expect it, but just sprung it on them when they arrived, while strictly speaking that's not rude, it doesn't strike me as considerate.

But what I'm saying is that either way, hurt feeling tend to result.  Evidenced in this this thread, feeling tend to run either "You care so much about football/ham/gravy, it matters more than seeing your faaaammmmily(!!)" or "You know this is important to us, and we have done it this way for years, but you are so concerned about doing things your own way, you don't care." Sounds like a no-win situation, to me.

Well, I think this is part of what etiquette is supposed to do.  Sometimes, yes, being as polite as possible results in hurt feelings.  But just how justified is it to get hurt simply because someone chooses not to have football for Thanksgiving or serve Honey Glazed Ham for Christmas one year?  I think that sometimes being a loving family member or friend means accepting that for one occasion, things are going to not follow as they did in the past and letting it go-especially if one is not the host of the occasion.

[EMuir]

I am in fact the person in charge of preparing the holiday meal, and have in the past.  For a special meal, if you find it too difficult to make a traditional dish, perhaps you should either invite family members over to help, or host a different meal. 

We have a traditional food on Christmas Eve and over the years other foods have been added because not everyone likes the traditional food.  That's fine.  But if you say you're hosting Christmas Eve and aren't providing that food, I'd definitely be disappointed.  I still would go, because getting together with family is more important, but the disappointment would be something I'd have to deal with. 

[Two Ravens]

How exact does it have to be, though?  It isn't like she skipped the ham entirely.  If the family is used to one turkey with one kind of brine is it rude to cook the turkey with a different brine?  I don't see going from country ham to Honeybaked on the same level as going from pancakes to lasagna.

But she's also not doing the gravy and french toast, which may have been some people's favorites.  This is reminding me of a thread from a few years ago, where one family member was hosting Thanksgiving, but decided that there would be no football, since her family didn't normally watch it. Football fans in the family rebelled, and it caused lots of hurt feelings on both sides.

She had the right not to have the football at her hosted event-and her guests had the right not to accept her invitation.  But that assumes that she'd announced in advance that there would be no football.  If she hadn't, and didn't do anything to let her guests know not to expect it, but just sprung it on them when they arrived, while strictly speaking that's not rude, it doesn't strike me as considerate.

But what I'm saying is that either way, hurt feeling tend to result.  Evidenced in this this thread, feeling tend to run either "You care so much about football/ham/gravy, it matters more than seeing your faaaammmmily(!!)" or "You know this is important to us, and we have done it this way for years, but you are so concerned about doing things your own way, you don't care." Sounds like a no-win situation, to me.

Well, I think this is part of what etiquette is supposed to do.  Sometimes, yes, being as polite as possible results in hurt feelings.  But just how justified is it to get hurt simply because someone chooses not to have football for Thanksgiving or serve Honey Glazed Ham for Christmas one year?  I think that sometimes being a loving family member or friend means accepting that for one occasion, things are going to not follow as they did in the past and letting it go-especially if one is not the host of the occasion.

Is it also accepting that if you are the host of the meal, and you change the traditions, some members are going to prefer to uphold their traditions? Shouldn't the hosts also "let it go?"

[Searcher]

How exact does it have to be, though?  It isn't like she skipped the ham entirely.  If the family is used to one turkey with one kind of brine is it rude to cook the turkey with a different brine?  I don't see going from country ham to Honeybaked on the same level as going from pancakes to lasagna.

But she's also not doing the gravy and french toast, which may have been some people's favorites.  This is reminding me of a thread from a few years ago, where one family member was hosting Thanksgiving, but decided that there would be no football, since her family didn't normally watch it. Football fans in the family rebelled, and it caused lots of hurt feelings on both sides.

She had the right not to have the football at her hosted event-and her guests had the right not to accept her invitation.  But that assumes that she'd announced in advance that there would be no football.  If she hadn't, and didn't do anything to let her guests know not to expect it, but just sprung it on them when they arrived, while strictly speaking that's not rude, it doesn't strike me as considerate.

But what I'm saying is that either way, hurt feeling tend to result.  Evidenced in this this thread, feeling tend to run either "You care so much about football/ham/gravy, it matters more than seeing your faaaammmmily(!!)" or "You know this is important to us, and we have done it this way for years, but you are so concerned about doing things your own way, you don't care." Sounds like a no-win situation, to me.

Well, I think this is part of what etiquette is supposed to do.  Sometimes, yes, being as polite as possible results in hurt feelings.  But just how justified is it to get hurt simply because someone chooses not to have football for Thanksgiving or serve Honey Glazed Ham for Christmas one year?  I think that sometimes being a loving family member or friend means accepting that for one occasion, things are going to not follow as they did in the past and letting it go-especially if one is not the host of the occasion.

Is it also accepting that if you are the host of the meal, and you change the traditions, some members are going to prefer to uphold their traditions? Shouldn't the hosts also "let it go?"

The members who prefer to uphold their traditions have the right to decline the invitation, and I think it would be reasonable for the host to give them a heads-up so they can do so.

But no, I don't think that the hosts are required to continue those traditions year in and year out.  They are free to uphold whatever traditions they feel like as well as not to uphold any that they don't.  So no, I don't think the hosts need to "let it go" by doing something they don't want to at their own party in their own home, just because their guests have expressed a preference.

[Two Ravens]

How exact does it have to be, though?  It isn't like she skipped the ham entirely.  If the family is used to one turkey with one kind of brine is it rude to cook the turkey with a different brine?  I don't see going from country ham to Honeybaked on the same level as going from pancakes to lasagna.

But she's also not doing the gravy and french toast, which may have been some people's favorites.  This is reminding me of a thread from a few years ago, where one family member was hosting Thanksgiving, but decided that there would be no football, since her family didn't normally watch it. Football fans in the family rebelled, and it caused lots of hurt feelings on both sides.

She had the right not to have the football at her hosted event-and her guests had the right not to accept her invitation.  But that assumes that she'd announced in advance that there would be no football.  If she hadn't, and didn't do anything to let her guests know not to expect it, but just sprung it on them when they arrived, while strictly speaking that's not rude, it doesn't strike me as considerate.

But what I'm saying is that either way, hurt feeling tend to result.  Evidenced in this this thread, feeling tend to run either "You care so much about football/ham/gravy, it matters more than seeing your faaaammmmily(!!)" or "You know this is important to us, and we have done it this way for years, but you are so concerned about doing things your own way, you don't care." Sounds like a no-win situation, to me.

Well, I think this is part of what etiquette is supposed to do.  Sometimes, yes, being as polite as possible results in hurt feelings.  But just how justified is it to get hurt simply because someone chooses not to have football for Thanksgiving or serve Honey Glazed Ham for Christmas one year?  I think that sometimes being a loving family member or friend means accepting that for one occasion, things are going to not follow as they did in the past and letting it go-especially if one is not the host of the occasion.

Is it also accepting that if you are the host of the meal, and you change the traditions, some members are going to prefer to uphold their traditions? Shouldn't the hosts also "let it go?"

The members who prefer to uphold their traditions have the right to decline the invitation, and I think it would be reasonable for the host to give them a heads-up so they can do so.

But no, I don't think that the hosts are required to continue those traditions year in and year out.  They are free to uphold whatever traditions they feel like as well as not to uphold any that they don't.  So no, I don't think the hosts need to "let it go" by doing something they don't want to at their own party in their own home, just because their guests have expressed a preference.

We mostly agree, I think. I meant that the hosts should "let it go" in the sense that they should not see those family members declining to participate in the "new traditions" as betraying them. No guilt tripping that "You care so much about football/french toast, etc., it matters more than seeing your faaaammmmily(!!)"

[Searcher]

How exact does it have to be, though?  It isn't like she skipped the ham entirely.  If the family is used to one turkey with one kind of brine is it rude to cook the turkey with a different brine?  I don't see going from country ham to Honeybaked on the same level as going from pancakes to lasagna.

But she's also not doing the gravy and french toast, which may have been some people's favorites.  This is reminding me of a thread from a few years ago, where one family member was hosting Thanksgiving, but decided that there would be no football, since her family didn't normally watch it. Football fans in the family rebelled, and it caused lots of hurt feelings on both sides.

She had the right not to have the football at her hosted event-and her guests had the right not to accept her invitation.  But that assumes that she'd announced in advance that there would be no football.  If she hadn't, and didn't do anything to let her guests know not to expect it, but just sprung it on them when they arrived, while strictly speaking that's not rude, it doesn't strike me as considerate.

But what I'm saying is that either way, hurt feeling tend to result.  Evidenced in this this thread, feeling tend to run either "You care so much about football/ham/gravy, it matters more than seeing your faaaammmmily(!!)" or "You know this is important to us, and we have done it this way for years, but you are so concerned about doing things your own way, you don't care." Sounds like a no-win situation, to me.

Well, I think this is part of what etiquette is supposed to do.  Sometimes, yes, being as polite as possible results in hurt feelings.  But just how justified is it to get hurt simply because someone chooses not to have football for Thanksgiving or serve Honey Glazed Ham for Christmas one year?  I think that sometimes being a loving family member or friend means accepting that for one occasion, things are going to not follow as they did in the past and letting it go-especially if one is not the host of the occasion.

Is it also accepting that if you are the host of the meal, and you change the traditions, some members are going to prefer to uphold their traditions? Shouldn't the hosts also "let it go?"

The members who prefer to uphold their traditions have the right to decline the invitation, and I think it would be reasonable for the host to give them a heads-up so they can do so.

But no, I don't think that the hosts are required to continue those traditions year in and year out.  They are free to uphold whatever traditions they feel like as well as not to uphold any that they don't.  So no, I don't think the hosts need to "let it go" by doing something they don't want to at their own party in their own home, just because their guests have expressed a preference.

We mostly agree, I think. I meant that the hosts should "let it go" in the sense that they should not see those family members declining to participate in the "new traditions" as betraying them. No guilt tripping that "You care so much about football/french toast, etc., it matters more than seeing your faaaammmmily(!!)"

Ah.  I agree with you about hosts "letting it go" in that sense in that if the guests decline, that should be that.  But I think it would be polite for the guests to just decline the invitation without saying, "If you're not having X, I'm not coming."  That does come across as rude.

Of course, I do think it's rude for the guests to walk out on the hosts on finding out that something they're expecting won't be there, but that's why I think giving a heads-up is a good idea-so they can decline beforehand.