Exchanges with People that Make Your Brain Hurt

[snowflake]

This is an old brain hurt but it still makes me shake my head when I think of it.

When DH was in the Marines and we lived on base, we had some very nice next door neighbors who were very religious.   We went to church too, actually even the same services at the chapel, but our spiritual ideals didn't always match up.

For instance, when it came to Halloween, they would not do the door to door thing because they didn't agree with the whole Halloween thing.  Or so they said, because they all dressed up in costume and went to a "harvest festival" at the base chapel where the children would be walking around and getting candy in their bags from various volunteers and having parties. 

From what I've learned from people who do not celebrate Halloween for religious reasons, it's because they don't agree with the holiday's pagan origins, the dressing up to repel the evil spirits who pass between the living and the dead on that one night before All Saint's Day when that veil is lifted?

Now that's fine, to each their own, but doesn't it defeat the purpose of objecting to dressing up in costumes and going door to door for candy when you dress up in costume and go from one person to the next who will drop candy in your bags?  It's doing  basically the same thing but at a church/chapel and calling it something different. 

I didn't say anything about it to our neighbors, partly cause I was impressed by the husband's awesome MIB costume and how he'd rigged up a neuroblaster that looked like the one in the movies.   But it didn't quite make sense to me.

I have known of organizations that will do that sort of thing for children who do not live in safe neighborhoods, like a Trunk Or Treat, so that they can still participate, but this was a base neighborhood we lived in that was really safe.

Way back when I was in HS in the late 80s/early 90s where I lived there was a very paranoid fear that kids were getting into "Satan worship."  Disclaimer: I don't mean to be offensive to people who have been the victim of damaging religious practices.  But back in that time there was a paranoia that it was much more prevalent than it actually was and there was a belief that such practitioners were actively recruiting children en masse from high schools.

So some families forbade Halloween on religious grounds not because of the origins but because they were afraid that their kids would use trick or treating as a front to sneak off and do human sacrifice while summoning portals to hell or something like that.  Church parties were seen as a good way to let your kids get their pagan on for a night each year without worrying that they'd take it too seriously.  This was true of many families who weren't even religious. 

I wasn't allowed to celebrate Halloween because my parents thought corn syrup was a government conspiracy to keep us all dependent like in Brave New World.  But a few times I actually lied and told people that they were anti-devil worship too because I was too embarrassed about them.  (The truth was, my parents were actually pretty cool about letting us play role playing games or do other things that were absolute no-nos for my friends.) 

[RegionMom]

That brought back an old memory-

My parents were conservative, but would host their adult Sunday School class over for costumed Halloween parties, and the kids were sent to the basement playroom, where we would be out of the way, but safe.  (Only way out was the staircase to the kitchen, and I had a much younger brother so the toys were tame.)

I was SHOCKED to see one church kid pull out the "evil" game of Dungeons and Dragons!!! 

Meh, no evil was conjured and life went on...
but I never told my parents, because I might get in trouble, even though I did not play it! 
( I was young enough to want to play with toys, not a boring sit down game with a lot to explain)

[Elisabunny]

hjaye wrote:

There will always be some who believe in the accuracy of the Old Testament in which case you have Elijah who did not die, but ascended up to heaven in a whirlwind.  This will skew the statistics of life being terminal 100% of the time to 99.99999999999999999999999%"

I recall there being one other case too....
 

That was Enoch. And, according to the Roman Catholic Church, the Virgin Mary.
Then there's the YOLT group:Jesus, Lazarus, and assorted other unnamed beneficiaries.
That's why Israel will not allow the burial of enemy combatants within their borders- they have the biggest resurrection rate in the world. 

There's also John the Revelator, who simply didn't die, and if you're Mormon, his buddies the Three Nephites.

[pierrotlunaire0]

I once worked with someone who put her children in the local Catholic school because she felt the public school was so lax.  And then she complained because the nuns were so strict.

Isn't the opposite of lax strict?  And we were not talking corporal punishment, just getting grades marked down for making mistakes.  ("But he was trying!")

[Diane AKA Traska]

Not really. A lot of people see the fact that the universe exists and that rational, faithful people exist as proof of a higher power.

It's still impossible to know.  Faith and knowledge are opposite sides of the coin... it's impossible to have faith in something known... I don't have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, I know it will.

[Piratelvr1121]

This past Sunday our church service was dedicated to MLK Jr.  Our priest mentioned that she was a sr. in high school in 1960 when there was the stink over desegregating schools and she told of a teacher who went for a walk and decided she wanted to go teach in one of these desegregated schools to help things get smoothed over.  Her family was aghast though when she said something about following Moses example in standing up for the rights of the oppressed who deserved equal rights.

Well her father said "We don't follow Moses, we follow Jesus Christ!!"  She stopped there, our priest, and kind of smirked at the disconnect there.  Yeah, we follow this other guy who stood up and preached kindness towards others, loving thy neighbor, not that other guy...who also tried to fight against the mistreatment of people of another race. 

[Ceallach]

Not really. A lot of people see the fact that the universe exists and that rational, faithful people exist as proof of a higher power.

It's still impossible to know.  Faith and knowledge are opposite sides of the coin... it's impossible to have faith in something known... I don't have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, I know it will.

Right but that doesn't change the fact that there are people who insist they *do* know for sure. Therefore the beliefs they are claiming to have are very different to the ones discussed here.  They would never define themselves as agnostic.  Personally I think that faith by its very definition means not knowing for sure, because if you knew for sure you wouldn't need faith... My devout BIL fervently disagrees with me on that point however.

There's a reason for so many diverse religious views - things that seem common sense to one person are balony to another.

[NutMeg]

Careful guys, I think we're edging into territory that could get the thread locked, fascinating as the discussion is.

[mmswm]

I just made my mother's brain hurt.  She's gabbing away on the phone, and I quietly reminded her she promised to take me to Target to get a new swim suit.  She looked at me and said, "but I can't drive", and looked very confused as to why she was "taking me" to the store.  Then I reminded her that she was the one with the checking account that actually had money in it.  She'd promised to buy me a new suit so I didn't have to swim in shorts and a sports bra anymore, as I don't have a swim suit that actually fits.

[VorFemme]

I just made my mother's brain hurt.  She's gabbing away on the phone, and I quietly reminded her she promised to take me to Target to get a new swim suit.  She looked at me and said, "but I can't drive", and looked very confused as to why she was "taking me" to the store.  Then I reminded her that she was the one with the checking account that actually had money in it.  She'd promised to buy me a new suit so I didn't have to swim in shorts and a sports bra anymore, as I don't have a swim suit that actually fits.

SwimsuitsForAll.com - if she wants to let you order a swimsuit that fits - frequent sales and a wide selection of sizes (8 to 26) - they ship out of the Dallas-Fort Worth area - so centrally located near a major airline hub.....I've bought several suits (and am on my second bottle of chlorine remover to extend the life of suits worn in gymnasium pools with their high chlorine levels - due to the number of people in the pool). 

If she doesn't want to GO shopping - just have her pay for your order and let the post man deliver!

[Diane AKA Traska]

Careful guys, I think we're edging into territory that could get the thread locked, fascinating as the discussion is.

My apologies... I figured a discussion on theology was different than religion... and the topic of agnosticism isn't as much religious as it is theological.  But, consider the conversation dropped.

[mmswm]

I just made my mother's brain hurt.  She's gabbing away on the phone, and I quietly reminded her she promised to take me to Target to get a new swim suit.  She looked at me and said, "but I can't drive", and looked very confused as to why she was "taking me" to the store.  Then I reminded her that she was the one with the checking account that actually had money in it.  She'd promised to buy me a new suit so I didn't have to swim in shorts and a sports bra anymore, as I don't have a swim suit that actually fits.

SwimsuitsForAll.com - if she wants to let you order a swimsuit that fits - frequent sales and a wide selection of sizes (8 to 26) - they ship out of the Dallas-Fort Worth area - so centrally located near a major airline hub.....I've bought several suits (and am on my second bottle of chlorine remover to extend the life of suits worn in gymnasium pools with their high chlorine levels - due to the number of people in the pool). 

If she doesn't want to GO shopping - just have her pay for your order and let the post man deliver!

Oh!  Thanks.  I will look.

[amandaelizabeth]

....only I was the one doing the brain hurting.  I was in the optician's choosing a new pair of glasses for computer use.  I happened to mention that although I didn't know why this was, but every time when I looked into the mirror with my computer glasses on, I looked better than when I was wearing my all purpose ones. She gave a sigh and said, "Have you considered that if you are wearing your computer glasses you will be slightly out of focus and blurry round the edges?  That is why you look better!" 

 


posted before spell checked - must not be wearing my computer glasses

[gramma dishes]

....only I was the one doing the brain hurting.  I was in the optician's choosing a new pair of glasses for computer use.  I happened to mention that although I didn't know why this was, but every time when I looked into the mirror with my computer glasses on, I looked better than when I was wearing my all purpose ones. She gave a sigh and said, "Have you considered that if you are wearing your computer glasses you will be slightly out of focus and blurry round the edges?  That is why you look better!" 

Ouch!   

[TootsNYC]

how far away is the mirror?

Maybe you look better because you ARE in focus!