Author Topic: Malware Update/Apology  (Read 21634 times)

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Yvaine

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2011, 09:31:17 AM »
i can only speak for myself, Yvaine, but in my eyes, EG, while i don't consider her to be a troll, is engaging in some pot-stirring.  she has expressed her opinion over and over again.  she is not trying to discuss this privately with the Dame, but consistently brings it up here, in multiple threads.

People are responding to the Dame publicly because the Dame's own communications are public. I just see it as communicating in the same medium the Dame chose to use. *shrug*

Bexx27

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2011, 09:33:04 AM »
I'm not asking her to list posters by name to sort out who deserved an apology and who didn't (although I can come up with a few who certainly did deserve an apology). However, adding "probably" to the sentence negates the apology for everyone. A proper apology does not contain qualifiers.

I don't agree, so I think that it is an 'agree to disagree' thing. I wonder, though, if any of the troll group have apologised to anyone, (privately, I suppose) for their behaviour in this whole debacle.

I believe the members of the alleged "troll group(s)" have attemtped repeatedly in multiple threads - many of which have been deleted - to explain that they are not actually trolls and that the discussions on FB are mostly general "get-to-know-you" stuff centered on recipes, pets, etc. That possibly there were a few members who played vigilante on ehell, but this was hardly an organized effort to troll or something the whole group was aware of/involved in.

I would encourage anyone who's curious about all this to join the unofficial FB group, which is open to anyone and does not require you to disclose your ehell handle, and see what it's really about.
How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these. -George Washington Carver

DuBois

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2011, 09:36:14 AM »
I'm not asking her to list posters by name to sort out who deserved an apology and who didn't (although I can come up with a few who certainly did deserve an apology). However, adding "probably" to the sentence negates the apology for everyone. A proper apology does not contain qualifiers.

I don't agree, so I think that it is an 'agree to disagree' thing. I wonder, though, if any of the troll group have apologised to anyone, (privately, I suppose) for their behaviour in this whole debacle.

I believe the members of the alleged "troll group(s)" have attemtped repeatedly in multiple threads - many of which have been deleted - to explain that they are not actually trolls and that the discussions on FB are mostly general "get-to-know-you" stuff centered on recipes, pets, etc. That possibly there were a few members who played vigilante on ehell, but this was hardly an organized effort to troll or something the whole group was aware of/involved in.

I would encourage anyone who's curious about all this to join the unofficial FB group, which is open to anyone and does not require you to disclose your ehell handle, and see what it's really about.

How does one do that?

still in va

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2011, 09:36:52 AM »
i can only speak for myself, Yvaine, but in my eyes, EG, while i don't consider her to be a troll, is engaging in some pot-stirring.  she has expressed her opinion over and over again.  she is not trying to discuss this privately with the Dame, but consistently brings it up here, in multiple threads.

People are responding to the Dame publicly because the Dame's own communications are public. I just see it as communicating in the same medium the Dame chose to use. *shrug*

i think what the Dame is saying (or at least the way i'm reading her comments) is pretty much the same as it's always been.  she would prefer it if someone who has a problem with her to contact her privately to attempt to work things out.  EG has not done this, preferring to continue to post the same comments over and over.


DuBois

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2011, 09:38:36 AM »
i can only speak for myself, Yvaine, but in my eyes, EG, while i don't consider her to be a troll, is engaging in some pot-stirring.  she has expressed her opinion over and over again.  she is not trying to discuss this privately with the Dame, but consistently brings it up here, in multiple threads.

People are responding to the Dame publicly because the Dame's own communications are public. I just see it as communicating in the same medium the Dame chose to use. *shrug*

i think what the Dame is saying (or at least the way i'm reading her comments) is pretty much the same as it's always been.  she would prefer it if someone who has a problem with her to contact her privately to attempt to work things out.  EG has not done this, preferring to continue to post the same comments over and over.

Yeah, that's how I read it, as well.

O'Dell

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2011, 09:41:23 AM »
I'm not interested in any FB group. I've seen the posts by people that may or may not be associated with those groups that were *very* ugly...and I'm not the shrinking violet sort. IMO, at least some of the pot-stirrers show signs of being burnt out on this forum. I've seen it before and I've even experienced it. They are get worked up over the slightest of things and will.not.let.it.go. I've seen it in threads having nothing to do with the last Big Ban.

If anyone is feeling angry after being here, or when reading certain topics, or even anger toward the Ehelldame or mods, then they need to step away and take a breather for awhile. Get some perspective. Then come back when they are refreshed...if they still want to, of course. I've done it myself on this and other forums when I found myself losing patience. Sometimes it's hard to see it when you are in the middle of being burnt out, but once you take that break and look back, you can often see it. Or so my experience has been.

ETA: My post isn't directed at any one particular person. I probably can't even identify specific usernames. This is more of an observation built up over the last few months. I see the signs, think of the possibility and the move on to the topics that interest me more.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 09:50:04 AM by Sway »
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Yvaine

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #51 on: December 30, 2011, 09:42:31 AM »
i can only speak for myself, Yvaine, but in my eyes, EG, while i don't consider her to be a troll, is engaging in some pot-stirring.  she has expressed her opinion over and over again.  she is not trying to discuss this privately with the Dame, but consistently brings it up here, in multiple threads.

People are responding to the Dame publicly because the Dame's own communications are public. I just see it as communicating in the same medium the Dame chose to use. *shrug*

i think what the Dame is saying (or at least the way i'm reading her comments) is pretty much the same as it's always been.  she would prefer it if someone who has a problem with her to contact her privately to attempt to work things out.  EG has not done this, preferring to continue to post the same comments over and over.

Yeah, that's how I read it, as well.

Which feels, in a way, like her opinions are acceptable as public matters while disagreement needs to be hushed and hidden.  :-\

Crazy Chicken Lady

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2011, 09:43:47 AM »
I do not see EG as being a troll or pot-stirring. There seems to be such a fear of trolls that it has created a witchhunt where many who are not guilty are punished just for sharing their concerns. In a way the real trolls are winning. It is really sad. :-(

Wonderflonium

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2011, 09:45:47 AM »
Which feels, in a way, like her opinions are acceptable as public matters while disagreement needs to be hushed and hidden.  :-\

I agree.

I also wanted to add that in the most recently deleted malware thread, there was a lot of snark coming from the Dame herself that would have gotten others at least warned if not gagged. Someone asked earlier what apologies were needed, and I think the snark is another thing for which there should be apologies.
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still in va

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2011, 09:48:00 AM »
Which feels, in a way, like her opinions are acceptable as public matters while disagreement needs to be hushed and hidden.  :-\

I agree.

I also wanted to add that in the most recently deleted malware thread, there was a lot of snark coming from the Dame herself that would have gotten others at least warned if not gagged. Someone asked earlier what apologies were needed, and I think the snark is another thing for which there should be apologies.

and she apologized for that.  the current debate now seems to be if the apology went far enough.  it seems that many of us think that it did. 

Bexx27

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2011, 09:49:40 AM »
I'm not asking her to list posters by name to sort out who deserved an apology and who didn't (although I can come up with a few who certainly did deserve an apology). However, adding "probably" to the sentence negates the apology for everyone. A proper apology does not contain qualifiers.

I don't agree, so I think that it is an 'agree to disagree' thing. I wonder, though, if any of the troll group have apologised to anyone, (privately, I suppose) for their behaviour in this whole debacle.

I believe the members of the alleged "troll group(s)" have attemtped repeatedly in multiple threads - many of which have been deleted - to explain that they are not actually trolls and that the discussions on FB are mostly general "get-to-know-you" stuff centered on recipes, pets, etc. That possibly there were a few members who played vigilante on ehell, but this was hardly an organized effort to troll or something the whole group was aware of/involved in.

I would encourage anyone who's curious about all this to join the unofficial FB group, which is open to anyone and does not require you to disclose your ehell handle, and see what it's really about.

How does one do that?

I'm pretty sure any member you're friends with on FB can add you. (I'm not particularly knowledgeable about FB, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) If you're interested, you can PM me or someone else who's said they're a member with your FB information.
How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these. -George Washington Carver

DuBois

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2011, 09:49:50 AM »
I'm not interested in any FB group. I've seen the posts by people that may or may not be associated with those groups that were *very* ugly...and I'm not the shrinking violet sort. IMO, at least some of the pot-stirrers show signs of being burnt out on this forum. I've seen it before and I've even experienced it. They are get worked up over the slightest of things and will.not.let.it.go. I've seen it in threads having nothing to do with the last Big Ban.

If anyone is feeling angry after being here, or when reading certain topics, or even anger toward the Ehelldame or mods, then they need to step away and take a breather for awhile. Get some perspective. Then come back when they are refreshed...if they still want to, of course. I've done it myself on this and other forums when I found myself losing patience. Sometimes it's hard to see it when you are in the middle of being burnt out, but once you take that break and look back, you can often see it. Or so my experience has been.

On balance, I agree with this. Lurking, (back in the summer) I noticed a lot of anger and spite, just on the main boards. I also agree that I wouldn't risk being caught up in any FB group-I am very rarely on FB anyway, and it is weird how these things can develop a life of their own. As it is not clear who has been banned, or the link between their real name and e-hell handle, I would rather not know. I just remember feeling who I could and could not trust based on reading posts, with no way of knowing who those people are IRL. For those complaining about people being outed, it was actually someone on the thread back in October who said who was banned, not the Dame or the mod team.

Yvaine

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2011, 09:56:50 AM »
On balance, I agree with this. Lurking, (back in the summer) I noticed a lot of anger and spite, just on the main boards. I also agree that I wouldn't risk being caught up in any FB group-I am very rarely on FB anyway, and it is weird how these things can develop a life of their own. As it is not clear who has been banned, or the link between their real name and e-hell handle, I would rather not know. I just remember feeling who I could and could not trust based on reading posts, with no way of knowing who those people are IRL. For those complaining about people being outed, it was actually someone on the thread back in October who said who was banned, not the Dame or the mod team.

But there's all this weird atmosphere about what's a secret and what's not, and I think it contributes to the anger levels. A longtime poster got banned by accident, was going to be reinstated, but then the ban ended up being upheld because she'd spoken to another ehellion about it--who was also a RL friend--and that person had defended her. Thus the ban stuck. And I know I'd definitely go to a friend for sympathy if I was banned unexpectedly from my favorite forum. But we were told we were supposed to keep it quiet if banned. But the mods will publicize other bans, and that's OK. And comments vanish off the FB page so that the conversation doesn't make sense anymore, and then the posts disappear entirely. The whole atmosphere feels like one where we all need to navigate an increasingly arcane set of rules about what is "private" and therefore bannable or deletable if we voice it, and what is not.

Wonderflonium

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2011, 09:57:40 AM »
Which feels, in a way, like her opinions are acceptable as public matters while disagreement needs to be hushed and hidden.  :-\

I agree.

I also wanted to add that in the most recently deleted malware thread, there was a lot of snark coming from the Dame herself that would have gotten others at least warned if not gagged. Someone asked earlier what apologies were needed, and I think the snark is another thing for which there should be apologies.

and she apologized for that.  the current debate now seems to be if the apology went far enough.  it seems that many of us think that it did.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I personally don't feel like an apology with a qualifier is a proper apology.
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DuBois

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Re: Malware Update/Apology
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2011, 10:00:08 AM »
Which feels, in a way, like her opinions are acceptable as public matters while disagreement needs to be hushed and hidden.  :-\

I agree.

I also wanted to add that in the most recently deleted malware thread, there was a lot of snark coming from the Dame herself that would have gotten others at least warned if not gagged. Someone asked earlier what apologies were needed, and I think the snark is another thing for which there should be apologies.

I don't understand, really, genuinely don't understand, why people are so surpised that there is a stricter standard for posters than for the Dame and Mod team. (In some ways) They run the place! It is not a full democracy (thought there is the 'report to mod' button for posts that cross a line. This place would be unrunnable if everyone's opinion etc. was given equal weight.