My clothes are church appropriate!

[Samantha]

I attended church last weekend for the first time in ages. The website said jeans were welcome, so i attended in jeans and a nice shirt.

The pastor, elders, and deacons were all wearing jeans with church t-shirts, some had added long sleeves under the t-shirts. The pastor set off a bottle rocket during the sermon, and just laughed when he realized he had burnt a hole in his shirt. Talking to the neighbours the next day, I found out that the pastor has ziplined in from the back, and rappelled down from the ceiling during services in the past.

I think I'm going to like this church.

[Ceallach]

All this has reminded me of a story I heard in my church. 

A few years ago a young woman of about 20 years of age came in wearing a long skirt, tie dyed shirt, several necklaces and barefoot.  The greeter/sidesperson at the time said good morning and passed her the usual notice sheet and hymnbook. 

A few minutes later he noticed that she had sat down on the carpet just in front of the foremost row of pews.  As you can probably guess from the description so far this is a fairly traditional Anglican church with oak pews, aisle, candles, lectern etc. 

The sidesperson, a man in his sixties and in a smart suit, then sat down next to her on the carpet for the entire service. (I hope I'm that flexible at 60).

The next week she brought along several of her friends.  Several of these friends later got baptised.

I am by no means religious, but that is beautiful.  I smiled at the support he offered someone not like him and how he was accepting of her differences.  Just beautiful.

I agree, that is such a beautiful story about making somebody feel at ease rather than embarassing them by addressing their faux pas.  It's such a classy example of perfect etiquette.   

[Mental Magpie]

All this has reminded me of a story I heard in my church. 

A few years ago a young woman of about 20 years of age came in wearing a long skirt, tie dyed shirt, several necklaces and barefoot.  The greeter/sidesperson at the time said good morning and passed her the usual notice sheet and hymnbook. 

A few minutes later he noticed that she had sat down on the carpet just in front of the foremost row of pews.  As you can probably guess from the description so far this is a fairly traditional Anglican church with oak pews, aisle, candles, lectern etc. 

The sidesperson, a man in his sixties and in a smart suit, then sat down next to her on the carpet for the entire service. (I hope I'm that flexible at 60).

The next week she brought along several of her friends.  Several of these friends later got baptised.

I am by no means religious, but that is beautiful.  I smiled at the support he offered someone not like him and how he was accepting of her differences.  Just beautiful.

I agree, that is such a beautiful story about making somebody feel at ease rather than embarassing them by addressing their faux pas.  It's such a classy example of perfect etiquette.

Not just etiquette, humanity, too. 

[Elfmama]

ALL mainline Protestant denominations are deeply concerned about declining numbers, especially amongst yound adults. It is a matter of great focus and quite a bit of time, effort and money has been expended trying to solve this problem.

Catholic churches have the same problem, plus the decline in the number of priests. (Seems few young men nowadays are attracted to a lifetime of celibacy...)  Many parishes are sharing pastors with a neighboring one, or the diocese has chosen to close churches and combine the congregations.  DH's church has been without a resident priest for several years.

[Captain Hastings]

These stories remind me of something that happened to me several years ago, when I still attended church. I wore a black dress to services one day, nothing special about it except it was backless. But not even fully backless--there was a wide piece of cloth going across mid back, presumably to give the wearer better bra options.

Someone apparently took offense to this, but rather than confront me about it she went straight to the pastor and tattled.

He told her if she had a problem to talk to me personally, but she never did. 

[Bibi]

I sing in the choir at my church.  We face the congregation.  Sometimes at heavily attended services or baptisms the front row is occupied. When it is we are sometimes counting the lights in the ceiling or forgetting to sing at all.  One woman wore a black mini-skirt to a baptism that is sometimes remarked on to this day.  "Remember that woman in the front row?" is all it takes.  So, think about what you wear.  Most anything is OK because we want you in church.  Anyone who carps about appropriate clothes isn't paying attention to Jesus' example.  He wants us there and is glad we are. But, that skirt was distracting, I admit it. And, the lady's figure was why such skirts were invented.  We men were all smiles at the recessional.

[lellah]

I sing in the choir at my church.  We face the congregation.  Sometimes at heavily attended services or baptisms the front row is occupied. When it is we are sometimes counting the lights in the ceiling or forgetting to sing at all.  One woman wore a black mini-skirt to a baptism that is sometimes remarked on to this day.  "Remember that woman in the front row?" is all it takes.  So, think about what you wear.  Most anything is OK because we want you in church.  Anyone who carps about appropriate clothes isn't paying attention to Jesus' example.  He wants us there and is glad we are. But, that skirt was distracting, I admit it. And, the lady's figure was why such skirts were invented.  We men were all smiles at the recessional.

Is the takeaway here "wear clothes that men will ogle?"  Seriously?

[Mental Magpie]

I sing in the choir at my church.  We face the congregation.  Sometimes at heavily attended services or baptisms the front row is occupied. When it is we are sometimes counting the lights in the ceiling or forgetting to sing at all.  One woman wore a black mini-skirt to a baptism that is sometimes remarked on to this day.  "Remember that woman in the front row?" is all it takes.  So, think about what you wear.  Most anything is OK because we want you in church.  Anyone who carps about appropriate clothes isn't paying attention to Jesus' example.  He wants us there and is glad we are. But, that skirt was distracting, I admit it. And, the lady's figure was why such skirts were invented.  We men were all smiles at the recessional.

Is the takeaway here "wear clothes that men will ogle?"  Seriously?

No, and I'm not really sure how you arrived there.  His point was how distracting such clothes can be and that such a distraction can really detract from the sermon.  The last sentence, I believe, was to put a little humor into the story.

[lellah]

No, and I'm not really sure how you arrived there.  His point was how distracting such clothes can be and that such a distraction can really detract from the sermon.  The last sentence, I believe, was to put a little humor into the story.

Oh, I shouldn't fire off posts online immediately after dealing with Creepy Workplace Harrasser.     I was partly out of line there, and I apologize.  Sorry, Bibi!

But I do think the final line's inappropriate and reflects an inappropriate attitude.  "Sexy" clothes are, as the discussion of this post, tremendously subjective and shouldn't be the basis of the way people deal with each other, especially in church.  I'm creeped out by the notion of the tenor section (or baritone or whatever) smiling and presumably staring at a comely young woman.  I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Mental Magpie]

No, and I'm not really sure how you arrived there.  His point was how distracting such clothes can be and that such a distraction can really detract from the sermon.  The last sentence, I believe, was to put a little humor into the story.

Oh, I shouldn't fire off posts online immediately after dealing with Creepy Workplace Harrasser.     I was partly out of line there, and I apologize.  Sorry, Bibi!

But I do think the final line's inappropriate and reflects an inappropriate attitude.  "Sexy" clothes are, as the discussion of this post, tremendously subjective and shouldn't be the basis of the way people deal with each other, especially in church.  I'm creeped out by the notion of the tenor section (or baritone or whatever) smiling and presumably staring at a comely young woman.  I don't think that's unreasonable.

I guess it's not totally unreasonable, but it's what happens, and to pretend it doesn't happen doesn't do anyone any good (but that doesn't make it right by any means...)

[Oh Joy]

I sing in the choir at my church.  We face the congregation.  Sometimes at heavily attended services or baptisms the front row is occupied. When it is we are sometimes counting the lights in the ceiling or forgetting to sing at all.  One woman wore a black mini-skirt to a baptism that is sometimes remarked on to this day.  "Remember that woman in the front row?" is all it takes.  So, think about what you wear.  Most anything is OK because we want you in church.  Anyone who carps about appropriate clothes isn't paying attention to Jesus' example.  He wants us there and is glad we are. But, that skirt was distracting, I admit it. And, the lady's figure was why such skirts were invented.  We men were all smiles at the recessional.

Is the takeaway here "wear clothes that men will ogle?"  Seriously?

No, and I'm not really sure how you arrived there.  His point was how distracting such clothes can be and that such a distraction can really detract from the sermon.  The last sentence, I believe, was to put a little humor into the story.

POD

[jmarvellous]

I sing in the choir at my church.  We face the congregation.  Sometimes at heavily attended services or baptisms the front row is occupied. When it is we are sometimes counting the lights in the ceiling or forgetting to sing at all.  One woman wore a black mini-skirt to a baptism that is sometimes remarked on to this day.  "Remember that woman in the front row?" is all it takes.  So, think about what you wear.  Most anything is OK because we want you in church.  Anyone who carps about appropriate clothes isn't paying attention to Jesus' example.  He wants us there and is glad we are. But, that skirt was distracting, I admit it. And, the lady's figure was why such skirts were invented.  We men were all smiles at the recessional.

Is the takeaway here "wear clothes that men will ogle?"  Seriously?

That's what I got from it, too. I find admitting to behaving lewdly lewd in itself, and think that people should know better than to admit to such behavior.

An outfit I wear that strikes your fancy is not an invitation to treat me differently from anyone else.

[gramma dishes]

Baloney.  The woman dressed that way quite intentionally.  She sat in the front row quite intentionally.  She did it precisely to get the kind of reaction she got.

To now "blame" the male sections of the choir for noticing is not realistic.  She got the exact reaction she was seeking.  If Bibi had pretended that no one noticed, or that all of them were able to just look away and ignore it for the duration of the service, he'd have been lying. 

I know he meant that last line as a joke.  And it was.  But it's also true life.  I think far more highly of him for admitting that he and the other men were distracted than I would if he played all 'holier than thou' and had vehemently denied that it was ... well, at the very least, entertaining.

[NyaChan]

Guys,  I don't think a debate on the woman's skirt and whether men should admit noticing is going to go anywhere good - why don't we just go back to the main topic and let this one go? 

[Oh Joy]

Guys,  I don't think a debate on the woman's skirt and whether men should admit noticing is going to go anywhere good - why don't we just go back to the main topic and let this one go?

Good point. 

I think the takeaway is the reminder to be aware of the vantage point of others.  I've often wished lifeguards - male and female, of all ages and sizes - received a bit more guidance from their employers to sit remembering the eyelevel of passersby.