Author Topic: Mother's Day rudeness...  (Read 21017 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mental Magpie

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5296
  • ...for the dark side looks back.
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2012, 06:25:04 PM »
The lady was way, way out of line. I probably would have asked her to leave the store as soon as she swore. I'm particularly puzzled by this:

Quote
Absolutely not!  Look...you're a man, so you couldn't possibly get this.  Mother's Day is on a Sunday, and I DEMAND that my flowers be delivered then!

You need to be a woman to realize that Mother's Day is on a Sunday? Does she not realize that mothers give birth to boys, too? What a bizarre thing to say.

She meant he couldn't understand how important Mother's Day was because he couldn't be a mother.
That's still really silly, IMO.

Precisely.
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

AmethystAnne

  • mom, grandmother, and an enthusaistic knitter & crocheter (formerly Laura___)
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3886
  • So much yarn, not nearly enough time! :D
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2012, 01:08:50 PM »
I think what Dr. Manners did eventually was fine. He did not yell or show the customer the door. He was polite and used the Broken Record technique that "We are not open on Sundays. Would you prefer a Saturday or Monday delivery date?"

The customer kept pushing it and assuming that Dr. M. had no idea what Mother's Day was all about. It's never good to assume. Dr M. showed in a polite manner how much he did know how meaningful Mother's Day was by explaining all about the designers' histories. The SS customer realized that she was being a SS and meekly agreed to a Saturday delivery.

Dr_Manners

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 122
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2012, 01:36:29 PM »
I feel there is a measure of dogpiling going on here. Dr Manners has admitted countless times that he responded inappropriately. This story possibly happened well before he began reading e-Hell, quite possibly in order to learn how to deal with just this sort of situation with dignity, credibility and tact.  He clearly doesn't want anything from it, just thought he would share the story, maybe as a conversation starter!

I thought it was amusing to read, even though I'd never have the nerve to say anything like that to someone who was rude to me!! It made me smile.
Thank you for your support (as well as thank you to the support others have given me).

I will be honest, I felt a bit like I was being dogpiled as well.  While I understand that others may find my actions in the story rude, as do I in hindsight, I did feel as though I was being criticized continuously regardless of my statements concerning the inappropriate nature of my actions.  I thank you, Hollanda (and others), for giving me a bit of support.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 01:38:08 PM by Dr_Manners »

Hollanda

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2639
  • Believe in yourself.
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2012, 04:43:51 PM »
I feel there is a measure of dogpiling going on here. Dr Manners has admitted countless times that he responded inappropriately. This story possibly happened well before he began reading e-Hell, quite possibly in order to learn how to deal with just this sort of situation with dignity, credibility and tact.  He clearly doesn't want anything from it, just thought he would share the story, maybe as a conversation starter!

I thought it was amusing to read, even though I'd never have the nerve to say anything like that to someone who was rude to me!! It made me smile.
Thank you for your support (as well as thank you to the support others have given me).

I will be honest, I felt a bit like I was being dogpiled as well.  While I understand that others may find my actions in the story rude, as do I in hindsight, I did feel as though I was being criticized continuously regardless of my statements concerning the inappropriate nature of my actions.  I thank you, Hollanda (and others), for giving me a bit of support.

It's OK. I just hate bullying or dogpiling  and whilst I find it impossible to stand up for *myself* in these situations, I can quite easily help someone else out :) xxx
Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.


sparksals

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 17351
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2012, 06:09:01 PM »
I do agree though, that whether the employes were moms, had moms, or none of the above, was really irrelevant. Either you deliver on Sunday or you don't. I would have just had the owner (your mom) go ahead and talk with her.

I agree, I think that would have been the best way to handle it.  I don't think trying to shame a customer is ever a good idea, from a business point of view or an etiquette one. 

And while the customer was rude to keep insisting, I can see her side too -- I'd have just assumed florists delivered on Mother's Day, because I've never lived in a place where they didn't (from small towns to big cities).  I can see why she was pretty baffled.  Not cool to take it out on you, but I think there was rudeness and confusion from both parties here.

I don't see where the rude customer actually had a side in this.   She was politely told this flower shop does not deliver on Sunday.  She could express disappointment, but she was downright rude for not taking no for an answer. 

Just because the OP's store is outside the norm doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong or etiquettely incorrect closing on Sunday or Mother's Day.   It doesn't matter if restaurants are open that day.  This store chooses to make it a family holiday.  Their choice.  They just have to be willing to accept they may lose business over it and those disappointed customers still must be polite.


sparksals

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 17351
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2012, 06:09:58 PM »
I don't see the customer as behaving like a SS, but simply in the excessive "customer is always right" mode. Because, really, there are a lot of businesses open on Sundays and on Mother's Day. (And my friend who is a florist actually does stay open, and deliver, on Mother's Day, because she simply can't afford not to.)

All those restaurants that people like to take their mothers to on Mother's Day -- do you suppose none of the people working that day have families either?

She was definitely SS.  She didn't get the answer she wanted and kept insisting it be changed for her.  If that isn't SS I'm really not sure what is.

So what if other business are open on Sundays, even on Mother's Day?  That particular business wasn't and she needed to accept that.  Those employees in the other businesses that are open accept that as part of the job (the having to work holidays schedule).  That has absolutely no baring on what another company decides to do (not be open on Sundays, including Mother's Day).

POD!

sparksals

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 17351
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2012, 06:15:24 PM »
I think you were horribly rude and condescending.  It doesn't matter if you have mother's working in the shop or not - you weren't closed on Mother's Day to honor them as mother's, you were closed on Mother's day because you were closed all Sundays.  So it really was totally irrelevant.  You should have simply suggested she go elsewhere.

I have never heard of a florist being closed on Mother's day and would have found it to be a rather absurd and incredulous thing to be told, so I would have questioned it at least once myself especially if I'd been in there before and didn't recognize you as a regular employee (I'd have thought surely you were mistaken).  I probably would have just left after it was confirmed though, so I wonder why she stuck around.

I also wouldn't really have understood what a floral designer schedule had to do with a delivery person's schedule.  Surely the flowers could be arranged on Saturday by the designers and delivered Sunday by the delivery guy - I mean the guy who cooks my pizza isn't the same guy who delivers it, nor is the cable guy who comes to install my cable the same one who decides on cable content. 

And as for people wanting to spend Mother's day with their mother's or their children... well it would seem to me it would be prudent then to not get into a business that specifically markets towards providing Mother's Day services!

I couldn't disagree more.  Surprises me b/c I usually agree with you.   

It doesn't matter if they are closed on Sunday which also turns out to be Mother's Day.  Mother's Day is a Sunday, so they are closed.  They are closed on Sundays.. Of course the OP wants to spend time with his mother and the employees with theirs and their kids.  Just because it is Sunday doesn't mean they are wrong for assigning Sunday the same holiday it is.   The point is, the OP and the rest want to honour mother's day. 


I think you're being a bit harsh criticizing their choice to close Sunday and not deliver on MD.  That is a business decision. They also have the right to make it a personal decision.  They are not required to open that day or change their hours for that holiday.  Many businesses close outside the norm for family holidays or events.  This shop chooses to on MD.  Nothing wrong wit that.

sparksals

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 17351
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2012, 06:16:31 PM »
I don't know why people are arguing the store's business practices.  Would it be economically smart to be open on Mother's Day?  Yes, but they weren't so that doesn't matter.  There is no problem with the lady double checking; it's how she went about it and how she treated the OP during the process.  (I am by no means condoning what the OP did).  In a small shop, the delivery person is on the same schedule as everyone else: when the designers don't work, neither does the delivery person.  When the shop isn't open, none of its employees are on the clock.  Would it be a good idea to change that for holidays?  Yes, but they didn't. 

The point I'm trying to make is, the arguments about the business practices are irrelevant.  The woman was an SS, she was rude and self-centered.  The OP didn't handle it very well at the end, but he fully admits that.  Just because you (general) don't like the business practices in this instance doesn't mean they are wrong and it gives the lady absolutely no excuse to behave the way she did.

Bingo!

Isometric

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 717
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2012, 06:21:39 PM »
Dr_Manners, I may be in the minority, but I applaud your actions. I work in a small, family run business, and all too often customers forget that we too have families, and we too would like a weekend! This isn't Walmart or Target where they are practically open 24/7 and have delivery staff ready at all times, it sounds like a small business in a smallish town, and expectations should be adjusted as such.

Anyway, I would pick the flowers up on Saturday so it's me who see's the smile on mom's face, not the delivery guy!

Moray

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1869
  • My hovercraft is full of eels!
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2012, 06:24:35 PM »
Dr_Manners, I may be in the minority, but I applaud your actions. I work in a small, family run business, and all too often customers forget that we too have families, and we too would like a weekend! This isn't Walmart or Target where they are practically open 24/7 and have delivery staff ready at all times, it sounds like a small business in a smallish town, and expectations should be adjusted as such.

Anyway, I would pick the flowers up on Saturday so it's me who see's the smile on mom's face, not the delivery guy!

It's the condescension and retaliatory rudeness that I object to, not that the shop is closed on the day the customer demanded delivery.
Utah

sparksals

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 17351
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2012, 06:38:51 PM »
I don't see the OP as rude at all.  I also don't see any retaliatory rudeness.  The Customer was SS, extremely demanding and would not take no for an answer.   The OP found a way to express to the customer what she refused to hear.  I think he was extremely assertive, but definitely not rude.  Whatever he said and did, it got the point across.  Nothing wrong with standing up for himself and the other employees. 

artk2002

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 12921
    • The Delian's Commonwealth
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2012, 09:47:10 PM »

It's the condescension and retaliatory rudeness that I object to, not that the shop is closed on the day the customer demanded delivery.

I don't see any condescension on the OP's part and really no retaliatory rudeness at all. The customer was very condescending, stating pretty clearly that he wouldn't understand about Mother's Day. The OP pointed out that he did understand MD, very well. The customer wasn't taking his repeated, patient responses and needed a very clear demonstration.

What would you have had him do? Keep repeating "We're closed on Sunday, would you like Saturday or Monday delivery?" How do you deal with someone who deliberately and insultingly refuses to hear "that won't be possible"?
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Nemesis

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 749
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2012, 10:29:04 PM »
Chiming in to say how much I enjoyed reading your story!

I do agree that retaliatory rudeness is out of line, yet I can understand that Dr_manners did what he did in the heat of the moment. It was an emotionally charged situation caused by her being condescending, implying that you do not know how to love your mother, being demanding etc. I'm sure you feel awful about what you said and did, and perhaps you could have made your point in a more polite manner.

I do think that in such a situation, "I'm sorry but it is not possible" or "We're not open on Sundays" may be too a tad too tame. I think that in this situation, Dr_Manners wanted to get the point across to the lady that other people have celebrations too (as opposed to a simple point of "we're not open, and it is not possible"). I do not agree that it is not in his place to "teach" her, because I do think that society needs to be able to censor rude people (while still maintaining a polite spine, of course).

To get his point across to her politely is no easy feat. I am very thankful that I am not working in the service line, as my spine cannot bear the weight of such a demanding SS customer.

lowspark

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3984
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2012, 08:38:24 AM »

It's the condescension and retaliatory rudeness that I object to, not that the shop is closed on the day the customer demanded delivery.

I don't see any condescension on the OP's part and really no retaliatory rudeness at all. The customer was very condescending, stating pretty clearly that he wouldn't understand about Mother's Day. The OP pointed out that he did understand MD, very well. The customer wasn't taking his repeated, patient responses and needed a very clear demonstration.

What would you have had him do? Keep repeating "We're closed on Sunday, would you like Saturday or Monday delivery?" How do you deal with someone who deliberately and insultingly refuses to hear "that won't be possible"?

To answer the bolded above, I would have had him beckon his mother, the owner of the store, or for that matter, any other employee, to come and tell the woman the same thing. Way back when I worked in retail, that's how we handled difficult customers. This lady is not the first person to walk into a store and demand something that is not possible and refuse to take "No" for an answer. It happens all the time.

IME, it works about 90% of the time to simply have another employee confirm what you've already told the customer. The other 10% they'll keep arguing till they've seen a manager.

I agree that the OP just acted in the heat of the moment, and I can see why. The customer made it personal by saying that he couldn't understand Mother's Day because he was male. And in this situation, when it gets personal, it's awfully hard to keep your cool.

So, while I think what Dr. Manners did was not the best way to handle it, I can completely sympathize on why he did what he did. But again, the best course of action, assuming cooler heads had prevailed, would have been to have the owner talk to the customer.

WillyNilly

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7490
  • Mmmmm, food
    • The World as I Taste It
Re: Mother's Day rudeness...
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2012, 11:12:20 AM »
I think you were horribly rude and condescending.  It doesn't matter if you have mother's working in the shop or not - you weren't closed on Mother's Day to honor them as mother's, you were closed on Mother's day because you were closed all Sundays. So it really was totally irrelevant.  You should have simply suggested she go elsewhere.

I have never heard of a florist being closed on Mother's day and would have found it to be a rather absurd and incredulous thing to be told, so I would have questioned it at least once myself especially if I'd been in there before and didn't recognize you as a regular employee (I'd have thought surely you were mistaken).  I probably would have just left after it was confirmed though, so I wonder why she stuck around.

I also wouldn't really have understood what a floral designer schedule had to do with a delivery person's schedule.  Surely the flowers could be arranged on Saturday by the designers and delivered Sunday by the delivery guy - I mean the guy who cooks my pizza isn't the same guy who delivers it, nor is the cable guy who comes to install my cable the same one who decides on cable content. 

And as for people wanting to spend Mother's day with their mother's or their children... well it would seem to me it would be prudent then to not get into a business that specifically markets towards providing Mother's Day services!

I couldn't disagree more.  Surprises me b/c I usually agree with you.   

It doesn't matter if they are closed on Sunday which also turns out to be Mother's Day.  Mother's Day is a Sunday, so they are closed.  They are closed on Sundays.. Of course the OP wants to spend time with his mother and the employees with theirs and their kids.  Just because it is Sunday doesn't mean they are wrong for assigning Sunday the same holiday it is.   The point is, the OP and the rest want to honour mother's day. 


I think you're being a bit harsh criticizing their choice to close Sunday and not deliver on MD.  That is a business decision. They also have the right to make it a personal decision.  They are not required to open that day or change their hours for that holiday.  Many businesses close outside the norm for family holidays or events.  This shop chooses to on MD.  Nothing wrong wit that.

I don't think the florist shop was wrong to be closed on Sundays.  I think it was wrong for Dr manners to bring Mother's Day and wanting to celebrate it into the conversation as it was not relevant.  They weren't closed to celebrate Mother's day.  Mother's Day was the customer's issue, but not the shop's - the shop's stance was they were closed because it was a Sunday.  Full stop.  Sunday.  Nothing more.  If she'd wanted flowers delivered on a random Sunday the same issue would have occurred - the shop would be closed - so what on earth did "Mother's day" and mother's working there have to do with anything?  Oh right, nothing.  Totally unprofessional, rude, and condescending to bring their own personal -not business related- plans into the equation.  This was not a social conversation.

I do think the customer was rude. I don't blame her for asking at least once more as it is no where near a universal given that a shop would be closed on a Sunday, and its very common for businesses to open on holidays where they stand to make a lot of money even if its a day they normally would be closed.  I do think she should have left once it was confirmed however.

In no way am I excusing the customer.  She was rude.

But Dr Manner's displayed extreme retaliatory rudeness in how he handled the situation.  He should have simply told the customer her options were another day, gotten the manager/owner as the customer requested or else asked her to leave as they unfortunately would not be able to provide the service requested.  Instead he purposely embarrassed her and verbally dressed her down in front of a room of other people.

Yes the customer was wrong, but two wrongs don't make a right.  Just because he was witty in dressing her down doesn't mean his intent wasn't to shame her into submission.  Retaliatory rudeness is still rudeness.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 11:15:37 AM by WillyNilly »