Is it acceptable to 'pre reject' someone OR the pining crush

[Ceallach]

I really like the idea of having a mutual friend casually talk to him.  This has worked well for me in the past.  I have magic powers* that seem to attract very socially-awkward guys who don't pick up well on subtleties, but who also get hurt fairly easily, so it's not always the best choice for me to wait until they get up the courage to ask me out and then politely shoot them down.  Better for them to move on to a girl who is interested, right?  Mutual friends can give the guy a quick heads up. 

I agree, this is a good strategy.  It avoids the embarassment of having the person they care about being the one to let them down.   Much better for somebody to let him/her know privately that their affection is obvious but that he/she is not interested, and give them a heads up that they may want to redirect their attentions or even be *less* obvious. 

[LifeOnPluto]

If Rachel is dating someone, she should definitely casually mention it in passing. If she's not dating anyone, maybe she can casually let slip that she's not looking for a relationship right now. Or else, if she IS looking for a relationship, point out another guy who is "her type". (Eg if Andrew is the geeky gamer type, perhaps she can casually point out that surfers / skaters are more her type, etc).

Or else I really like the "You're like a brother to me" line.

[Raintree]

Oh, I've been Rachel. I found it really uncomfortable to deal with the hinting and making excuses to be around me, when I really wasn't interested. He didn't give me an opportunity to say no, because he never asked!! I found ways to not really be around him except on Facebook, and after a while when the behaviour continued by Facebook, I just defriended and blocked him. Cowardly way out? Probably, but it was getting annoying, and like in Rachel's case, not even in a creepy or threatening way; just annoying.

In Rachel's case it's awkward, because it sounds as though she has mutual friends and actually sees him in social settings. He's kind of put her in a situation where she can't really say "I'm not interested" because he can then come back with, "You have the wrong impression, I was never looking for more than friends." (That's happened to me too, right after the guy clearly asked me for a date).

[Reason]

My answer would probably change if the genders were reversed. But to address the situation as stated, Rachel is under no obligation to acknowledge or even react to Andrew's apparent attraction. He is not doing himself any favors by dancing around the issue either.

If he simply asked her on a date, she would be free to decline and the whole matter would be put to rest. Or she may even accept for all he knows, but it seems that Andrew is so afraid of being rejected he can not bring himself to do what he needs to do. It's easier to not ask and avoid the certainty of being refused. So really the problem lies entirely with Andrew.

If however, the jokes and awkward flirting begin to bother Rachel, then she is well within her rights to call him on it, in which case he needs to stop (and probably will).

POD to your reply

But if I may... I am curious... what would you change if the roles were reversed?

This is just a personal opinion of mine, so I am not saying everyone should act this way. But the way I grew up, women were expected to flirt (if interested) and men were expected to make the first move (if interested). Things are different now, but not for everybody.

My answer would change because I would never expect a woman to make the first move, so I would not suggest that. I would suggest that if she's tried her best to flirt and give the guy an opportunity and he's too dense to notice then he's probably not worth her time and she should move on. So, it's almost the same thing but not really.

[TheVapors]

Rachael & Andrew.

Rachael doesn't need to tell Andrew no, but I think she would be wise to make it clear she's not interested by pointing out what she does think. She can do this by friend-zoning him hard.

OK, so it's not all rainbows and sunshine being friend-zoned, but it gets the point across.

Scenario:

Andrew: I think you dropped your napkin.
Rachael: Thanks! You're always looking out for me. Like a brother.

Scenario:

Group conversation turns to dating, and Andrew is present.
Rachael: There's this guy I see at the coffee shop on my way to work. I'm thinking of asking him out. (Goes on for a sentence or two about this other man and how he suits her wants.)

If the GIANT HINTS of him being more like a brother, or of her interested in not-him go unnoticed, then I think it's fine to have a friend step in... casually, but firmly.

If Rachael and Andrew share a mutual friend:

Andrew brings up that he's interested in Rachael. Mutual friend says gently, "Andrew, it's pretty obvious you like her. I know you try to be subtle, but you aren't as subtle as you think. Plus, I don't know whether or not you realize this, and maybe you need to hear it... she's not interested in you as more than a friend."

---

Raphael & Andrea:

Same friend-zoning tactics. "Like a sister." "It's good having -friends- like you." "Oh, hey there's a girl at work I'm thinking of asking out."

I've never found women to be as clueless about these social clues, so usually that's enough. That's not to say that a woman can't overstep... in which case, I'd still suggest the mutual friend. But, that it be done quite privately, by a friend closer to Andrea to soften the blow.

[SleepyKitty]

Oh, I've been Rachel. I found it really uncomfortable to deal with the hinting and making excuses to be around me, when I really wasn't interested. He didn't give me an opportunity to say no, because he never asked!! I found ways to not really be around him except on Facebook, and after a while when the behaviour continued by Facebook, I just defriended and blocked him. Cowardly way out? Probably, but it was getting annoying, and like in Rachel's case, not even in a creepy or threatening way; just annoying.

This is another good reason to get someone involved and make it clear to Andrew that he needs to back off on his crush - a genuine friendship can be ruined if he just refuses to take a hint. If Rachel did have to resort to this avoidance technique, then it might affect more than just Andrew and Rachel's friendship, since they have so many mutual friends who are aware of the situation since Andrew told them. Personally, if I was part of a group of friends, and the guy was so oblivious to how uncomfortable he was making a girl that she had to start avoiding him, I'd probably be sympathetic to the girl and stop inviting him places I knew she would be.

Of course, nothing will turn me off of a guy - even as a friend - faster than this PA way of courting, so this may just be my personal take. Mostly because it is uncomfortable when everyone knows what's going on, and the guy is, as Raintree noted, denying the woman in the situation the right to say no. To me, it's one of the most disrespectful ways of approaching a woman since it takes away her ability to refuse the attention without escalating the situation to even more awkward heights.

[Petticoats]

Yep, regardless of genders, the kind and merciful thing is for a mutual friend who's noticed the pining to take the piner aside and say, "It's obvious how you feel, but this isn't going to happen." It will hurt the piner, but that wake-up call can be a necessary dose of reality.

[peach2play]

I've been Rachel and I took the guy aside and asked him what was up?  I then gently let him know it wasn't ever going to happen.  He tried harder.  I finally had a very firm talk with him and let him know that he had no shot and told him if he kept it up I would call him on each and every action.  I kept my word.  We are best friends now and he is dating a very lovely woman who he plans to marry.  Ignoring him won't work.  Someone in that group needs to take him aside and let him know that his behavior is unacceptable.

[Carotte]

Yep, regardless of genders, the kind and merciful thing is for a mutual friend who's noticed the pining to take the piner aside and say, "It's obvious how you feel, but this isn't going to happen." It will hurt the piner, but that wake-up call can be a necessary dose of reality.

No matter is you're not 13 anymore, using a third party is always a good option, because the third party  can act like A (who is pinning on B) doesn't know that thirdparty is asking B if B would go out with A - even if it was A who asked thirdparty.
Feelings saved for everyone if B says no, A can just act like nothing happened, B might wonder why thirdparty wanted to set him up with A, but no harm done.

[AustenFan]

I think it would be a kindness for Rachel to meet him for coffee and let him know (gently!) that she's just not there. That way there's no confusion or false hope. Hopefully a 30 minute awkward conversation will save countless hours of wondering and hoping on Andrews part and Rachel can stop worrying about if he's getting her hints and how to subtly discourage him.

[MariaE]

I think it would be a kindness for Rachel to meet him for coffee and let him know (gently!) that she's just not there. That way there's no confusion or false hope. Hopefully a 30 minute awkward conversation will save countless hours of wondering and hoping on Andrews part and Rachel can stop worrying about if he's getting her hints and how to subtly discourage him.

I completely disagree! Yes, it would be a kindness to let him know (either personally or through a third party as some suggested), but it would not be a kindness to meet him for coffee. That would be setting him up for the worst disappointment, as he would undoubtedly misunderstand her intentions.

[AustenFan]

I think it would be a kindness for Rachel to meet him for coffee and let him know (gently!) that she's just not there. That way there's no confusion or false hope. Hopefully a 30 minute awkward conversation will save countless hours of wondering and hoping on Andrews part and Rachel can stop worrying about if he's getting her hints and how to subtly discourage him.

I completely disagree! Yes, it would be a kindness to let him know (either personally or through a third party as some suggested), but it would not be a kindness to meet him for coffee. That would be setting him up for the worst disappointment, as he would undoubtedly misunderstand her intentions.

Since she hasn't expressed any interest in him to date I hardly think asking him to meet at a coffee shop would be setting him up for disappointment. A call or text that says 'hey, I've been getting a weird vibe lately and wanted to talk to you about it, can you meet me at such and such' wouldn't be out of line or raising any hopes.

[MariaE]

I think it would be a kindness for Rachel to meet him for coffee and let him know (gently!) that she's just not there. That way there's no confusion or false hope. Hopefully a 30 minute awkward conversation will save countless hours of wondering and hoping on Andrews part and Rachel can stop worrying about if he's getting her hints and how to subtly discourage him.

I completely disagree! Yes, it would be a kindness to let him know (either personally or through a third party as some suggested), but it would not be a kindness to meet him for coffee. That would be setting him up for the worst disappointment, as he would undoubtedly misunderstand her intentions.

Since she hasn't expressed any interest in him to date I hardly think asking him to meet at a coffee shop would be setting him up for disappointment. A call or text that says 'hey, I've been getting a weird vibe lately and wanted to talk to you about it, can you meet me at such and such' wouldn't be out of line or raising any hopes.

I still disagree. To some pining crushes any indication that the object of their crush is willing to spend one-on-one time with them would be raising hopes.

[Winterlight]

I'm with Maria. If I know someone's got a crush then I want to be careful not to send the wrong signals, and this could come off as a potential date- right up to the point when you tell the person you aren't interested in dating them. So after raising their hopes, you crush them. Not kind, in my book.

The third party approach allows them to save face.

[MerryCat]

Actually, depending on how big a crush they have, the crusher might still see meeting for coffee as a date even after the crushee has explained their lack of interest. Afterall, they agreed to meet with you alone, one on one. And yes they're not interested, but maybe they'll meet with you again, and if you hang out alone enough times who knows what could happen?

I'm not saying that Andrew is a creepy stalker type. But having been an incredibly silly 14-year-old girl who was constantly falling in "love," I can attest first hand to the power of self-delusion.