So what if you -do- know why your friend can't find a guy?

[TheVapors]

I don't think that this is solely a woman problem.

Being a frequenter on 'teh internets', and many online games, I come across a ridiculous number of men who assume that they deserve to have the woman they choose... without aiming to live up to their own standards.

It's a human problem. Some people want to be themselves, and want others to be themselves, too... only if "being themselves" means living up to impossible standards.

I'm reminded of a Dilbert comic, where Dogbert tries to help Dilbert make a list of the standards he has for the women he wants to date. In the final panel, Dilbert is saying, "...and she must be a ballerina..." while Dogbert moans that "My hand is cramping."

If she begins complaining about "Why is it that I can't get a man?" I'd suggest the gentle WillyNilly approach. "Do you actually want to know, or would you rather me lend an ear to listen?"

No need to lay it on thick if she does want to know, but pointing out that she doesn't even live up to her own high standards is a huge roadblock to her "finding a man".

[Hillia]

My BIL is one of those.  He moans constantly about how he can't find a woman, all women are shallow, materialistic, just out for a meal ticket (yeah, on your lofty 23k salary).  He recently met a woman who is about his age, educated, intelligent, has a plan for her life, likes the same movies/games/music that he does, but he won't pursue her...because she's not a supermodel.  She's a nice, average, pretty woman.  (He also tells my DH about this poor woman's attempts to be flirty with him, and calls her a 'freak' because she texted him a picture of herself in a bathing suit.  Yeah, he's a prize.)

BIL?  He's 33, weighs close to 500lbs if not more at this point, lived with his parents before he started school and will return to living with them when school is over.  He whines constantly that women are so shallow, they won't look past physical appearance - yet that's his #1 criteria.

[Adelaide]

<snip>

If she begins complaining about "Why is it that I can't get a man?" I'd suggest the gentle WillyNilly approach. "Do you actually want to know, or would you rather me lend an ear to listen?"

No need to lay it on thick if she does want to know, but pointing out that she doesn't even live up to her own high standards is a huge roadblock to her "finding a man".

I agree. Typically when someone asks you a question like "Why can't I lose weight/find a man/find friends?" you can tell that they just want to vent because they'll already have an answer and some excuses prepared. They may not even pause to draw breath before they say "I just exercise so much/have such a great personality/am so social!" and you'll never get the chance to say "Stop eating so much chocolate/tweak your standards/don't talk about your cats all the time". If someone genuinely wants advice, they'll typically pause and wait for you to respond, or continue asking actual questions that aren't "You know what I'm saying?" or "I'm so awesome, idk why it's so hard, right?"

With that being said, I don't think you should have to keep putting up with it if you don't want to; this sounds like something you have to deal with a lot. It can be helpful for someone who's stuck in a rut if a friend can gently call them on their behavior. For instance, one of my friends loved to complain about her boyfriend (a person I had made known that I loathed and who she should break up with) and would call/fb message me all the time to gripe about him. I finally had to state that she called me all the time to complain but would keep spinning her wheels and going nowhere if she wasn't going to do anything about it.

[TurtleDove]

Some posters have touched on this but I will reiterate -- the idea is to do things that allow you to be the person YOU want to be, not to do things to be the kind of person that will attract a man.  The result of being your "best you" will often be that you will exude confidence and happiness and joy that is attractive to men (or vice versa).  Conversely, it is incredibly difficult to maintain a facade created solely to attract a mate. 

[VorFemme]

Somebody once said that a lot of people are obsessed with getting a good looking date than they are a smart date because their eyes work better than their ears & brain do.  Or something to that effect..............

I know a lot of people who can make a quick decision on whether or not they like the LOOKS of something (car, computer, house, dinner, or whatever...............) but will dither endlessly about making a decision on any other criteria because they just don't know if they like the way it works, sounds, feels, etc. 

So - it's not just looking for dates & mates that people want something that looks good..................they also know that it is easy to show off their new acquisition visually - not so easy to show that their less visually appealing selection might be better in every other way - just not the "best looking" (could be thinking military spec computer or cell phone here instead of the flashier shiny metallic blue one model, the new red sports car instead of the older gray mini-van, or the new date that is just too cute for words but as thick as a brick).

[EnoughAlready22]

Some posters have touched on this but I will reiterate -- the idea is to do things that allow you to be the person YOU want to be, not to do things to be the kind of person that will attract a man.  The result of being your "best you" will often be that you will exude confidence and happiness and joy that is attractive to men (or vice versa).  Conversely, it is incredibly difficult to maintain a facade created solely to attract a mate.

Beautifully put!  This is exactly what I was trying to tell a friend recently.  And also what I am trying to learn myself. 

[DuBois]

My BIL is one of those.  He moans constantly about how he can't find a woman, all women are shallow, materialistic, just out for a meal ticket (yeah, on your lofty 23k salary).  He recently met a woman who is about his age, educated, intelligent, has a plan for her life, likes the same movies/games/music that he does, but he won't pursue her...because she's not a supermodel.  She's a nice, average, pretty woman.  (He also tells my DH about this poor woman's attempts to be flirty with him, and calls her a 'freak' because she texted him a picture of herself in a bathing suit.  Yeah, he's a prize.)

BIL?  He's 33, weighs close to 500lbs if not more at this point, lived with his parents before he started school and will return to living with them when school is over.  He whines constantly that women are so shallow, they won't look past physical appearance - yet that's his #1 criteria.

Good heavens. That is some level of delusion. 500lbs! And he thinks he can get a supermodel?! That is truly deranged.

[Flora Louise]

But if you're just out, being yourself, enjoying your life, good men are going to see that and be attracted to that.

Self confidence and being self-possessed are sexy.

This is oh so true. And so is energy. Haven't you ever noticed that when you're busy doing something that's when everyone wants your attention? I don't care if I'm just cleaning my house, that's when everybody wants to talk to me.

[WillyNilly]

If I tell Friend A:   "You've picked up some really nasty demanding traits from your dysfunctional mother, you're a lovely friend and have lots going for you, but when you talk to men you're a female dog" she's going to take that badly, and defend herself as just being a "strong, confident woman".

You do know there is a difference between constructive criticism and brutal honesty, right?  Sure you can't say ^ that to a friend and have it come out nice, because its a nasty thing to say.  But you can say something like "honestly you have so much to offer but sometimes you come across as mean.  I know you don't mean it like that, and goodness knows growing up in the home you did, you've come so far, but with dating its all about first impressions.  I think if you tried to soften up your approach a bit - you know - smile, stroke the guy's ego a bit by asking lots of questions - which works in your favor anyway because you learn about him, and just in general going a bit easy on people - sometimes guys say goofy things because they are nervous, no need to get defensive with them so quickly; try cracking a joke instead of fighting them on dumb comments. You have a lot to offer but right now it takes a while to get to your awesomeness, the key is to show your awesomeness faster."

If I tell Friend B:  "You're not putting yourself out there.  Get some exercise, stand up straight, hold yourself with confidence and you'll be approachable."  Well, that's just cruel. 

Yes that's ^ cruel but its not cruel to say (if asked for advice, or if she is lamenting constantly) "the two single most attractive qualities in a person are confidence and good health.  Everything else is simply preference - tall-short, thin-curvy, dark-pale, long hair-short hair, none of that ultimately matters, its all about confidence and health.  And while you have other stuff - pretty face, great personality, your life put together, you aren't putting your confidence and health out there to be seen, and those are your 'first impression' things you really need to wear on your sleeve so to speak.  Try standing up straight, shoulders back, hold that head high and proud! Take care of yourself, and show it. Remember how awesome you are and flaunt it and work on maintaining and improving yourself.  Because you know what?  Ultimately if you do that you don't even need a [man/woman], because you will feel so great.  And that darling, is confidence and its sexy."

If I tell Friend C:   "You dress like a lesbian.  You know that you've been mistaken for a lesbian several times, yet you are quite clear that you're interested only in men and you really want to find a man and get married.  If you want a man to show romantic interest in you then perhaps you need to change your image so that they consider approaching you.  Maybe get a feminine haircut.  Or put yourself out there in some way like you did back when you were in relationships." 

This one I'd approach with humor and a smile, but still kindness "well of course guys aren't interested in you, they think you're a lesbian!  Remember last week when 3 women hit on you - heck that guy you were talking to introduced you one of them!  Sweetie I know you went through some stuff with your ex(s) and you rebelled and went all androgynous with your look for a while, but you've gotta be real here for a moment.  Yes you have the face to pull off short hair, but I think you might do better to fem it up a bit - you know how guys are, looks matter to them.  Let the top grow out a bit and poof it up, wear big earrings, a skirt once in a while wouldn't kill you.  Its all about marketing and while you look neat and put together, you aren't advertising 'straight female seeking straight man' with your current packaging."

If I tell my coworker:  "You're 40 years old and a professional who earns a six figure salary. Stop dressing like a tramp, giggling like a schoolgirl and slathering on ten feet thick make-up and false eyelashes. Also, when you're in a relationship, don't treat the man like your personal servant and create huge dramatic scenarios whereby you storm out and never speak to him again, then complain that he never called you and "broke your heart".  Grow up.

Again humor, kindness, and a few finger snaps.  "Lets look at some best practices and some of the things that aren't working for you.  Dating in your 40's is a different ballgame then dating in your 20's and while you have advanced leaps and bounds in other areas of your life, you seem a bit stuck on the dating thing.  You have some great things to offer - check you out, you are successful, witty, financially secure, fun to be around, you love to laugh, you've got it going on.  But you still dress like you did 20 years ago.  Sweetheart, if you have advanced, don't you think your wardrobe should too?  Have you ever read Real Simple with the fashion section on how to wear a trend piece and they break it down by age group?  Or the opening to What Not to Wear with the sign 'no mini skirts after 30'?  You need a new marketing strategy that includes fresh packaging that better shows off your assets.  Lighten up on the make-up to show off those eyes!  Update the wardrobe.  Project yourself with confidence and airiness, not false giggling and bossiness.  You are 40 - a cougar!  You need to find your inner vixen and be a strong confident independent woman, and drop this school girl act, you have more to offer then that.  Lets go down to Bergdorf next Saturday and we'll meet with the personal shopper and get a make-over at the Laura Mericer counter and you'll leave ready to be cast on the The Real Cougars of Madison County! Giggling is for girls, you are woman, I want to hear you roar!"


The reality is some people do just moan and complain, and are too scared to change how they are projecting themselves, because even though their comfort zone isn't working, the fear is leaving the comfort zone might not work either - and then they are still a lone and rejected at now they are so while feeling exposed and uncomfortable.  But some people really do just need that kick in the butt to get going.  its like kids - if you are around them everyday, you hardly notice they are growing and maturing - sure you know it, but subtle.  But if its a far away kid you only see once a year WOW look how tall they've gotten.  Or weight, 1 pound here, 2 pounds there, and next thing you know its 20 pounds.  Sometimes people get lazy with their dating skills, they don't watch successful friends flirting techniques, they don't update their wardrobe for their age, they forget how to make a first impression because they only socialize with people who know them well, and they just need someone to say "hey, you can do this, you're just not doing it."

[gramma dishes]

BIL?  He's 33, weighs close to 500lbs if not more at this point, lived with his parents before he started school and will return to living with them when school is over.  He whines constantly that women are so shallow, they won't look past physical appearance - yet that's his #1 criteria.

Why do I suspect that he secretly knows darn good and well that he cannot possibly ever attract a woman at that weight and therefore sets his "standards" for women exorbitantly high so that he has an explanation for why he doesn't have a girlfriend.  Not "I need to lose weight and get healthy." 

"No girl is pretty enough to meet my standards" makes it sound like it's HIS choice.  Sadly, everyone else knows better.

[Hillia]

BIL?  He's 33, weighs close to 500lbs if not more at this point, lived with his parents before he started school and will return to living with them when school is over.  He whines constantly that women are so shallow, they won't look past physical appearance - yet that's his #1 criteria.

Why do I suspect that he secretly knows darn good and well that he cannot possibly ever attract a woman at that weight and therefore sets his "standards" for women exorbitantly high so that he has an explanation for why he doesn't have a girlfriend.  Not "I need to lose weight and get healthy." 

"No girl is pretty enough to meet my standards" makes it sound like it's HIS choice.  Sadly, everyone else knows better.

Yeah, DH and I have had this thought also.  He surrounds himself with mediocrity so he can be the big fish in a mud puddle, instead of pushing himself to compete in more challenging areas.  At 33, it's probably too late to break this cycle unless he gets really motivated, and he doesn't have the introspective ability to do that.

[whiterose]

My BIL is one of those.  He moans constantly about how he can't find a woman, all women are shallow, materialistic, just out for a meal ticket (yeah, on your lofty 23k salary).  He recently met a woman who is about his age, educated, intelligent, has a plan for her life, likes the same movies/games/music that he does, but he won't pursue her...because she's not a supermodel.  She's a nice, average, pretty woman.  (He also tells my DH about this poor woman's attempts to be flirty with him, and calls her a 'freak' because she texted him a picture of herself in a bathing suit.  Yeah, he's a prize.)

BIL?  He's 33, weighs close to 500lbs if not more at this point, lived with his parents before he started school and will return to living with them when school is over.  He whines constantly that women are so shallow, they won't look past physical appearance - yet that's his #1 criteria.

I got hit on by a gold digger once. Back then, I was a full time graduate student with part time jobs...but I had a car, and my own place, and enough money to afford hobbies (and would land my librarian job soon). The guy did not have a job, a degree, career goals, a car, or even a driver's license. He actually wanted ME to pick him up for the first date. He did was not looking for someone to buy him a car- just to give him rides to places. Or someone to take him to fancy destinations in other countries- just to pay for his amusement park ticket. Or to buy him expensive jewelry- just CDs and DVDs (this was 2004). So yes, even at 23K a year, gold diggers hitting on you is still a possibility.

[Cami]

BIL?  He's 33, weighs close to 500lbs if not more at this point, lived with his parents before he started school and will return to living with them when school is over.  He whines constantly that women are so shallow, they won't look past physical appearance - yet that's his #1 criteria.

Why do I suspect that he secretly knows darn good and well that he cannot possibly ever attract a woman at that weight and therefore sets his "standards" for women exorbitantly high so that he has an explanation for why he doesn't have a girlfriend.  Not "I need to lose weight and get healthy." 

"No girl is pretty enough to meet my standards" makes it sound like it's HIS choice.  Sadly, everyone else knows better.

The situation sounds like a college friend of mine who "somehow" always "had the bad luck" to fall in love with gay men.  Time after time after time. It didn't take me long to realize that a guy's attractiveness was inversely proportional to his availability. Being attracted to the unobtainable takes away all responsibiilty for one's own love life and happiness or for any need for self-improvement.

[wolfie]

It's not just women who have really high expectations, too! I have definitely met guys who are desperate to date someone conventionally attractive, often younger than them. Not just 'someone I personally am attracted to' but more 'someone my friends will think is hot, and be impressed I landed her'. This is not an appealing attitude from men or women!

I am all for waiting until you feel that 'spark'. But having an exhaustive list of qualities is, in my experience, not that helpful. I can say 'I'm usually not attracted to redheads' but if I meet a really awesome redhead who turns my crank, I'm not exactly going to say 'oh sorry you don't fit my qualifiers'.

Had I made a list and stuck to it, I wouldn't be with my awesome boyfriend now. On the other hand, before I met him, I was kind of halfheartedly casually seeing a couple of guys, neither of whom really 'did it' for me. No particular reason, it just wasn't there. But when I met my current guy I knew right away that I wanted to see more of him. Dealbreakers aside, I don't think it's useful to say 'I will only date people who are X Y and Z because that's what I like'. For one thing, if you meet someone who is X Y and Z your friends all laugh at you.

Also I think if you write out a list you have a tendency to write what you think you should want instead of what you actually want. You think you should want a tall, handsome man with a great personality who makes $$$ and wants to take you around the world. But what you really want is a short, chubby guy who will sit with you and watch tv on the couch and you don't really care how much $$ he makes as long as you have something to talk about. (all yous are general and i am not talking about anyone specific just trying to come up with an example)

[shhh its me]

  I'm just curious does she work for "doctors without borders"?   I know that was an example , but I assume it stood in place of something like "I want some who..............donates 4 weeks to Habitate for humanity, spent a year in the peace core , feeds the homeless once a week"  etc.   I think this is the one thing you can actually address " Friend a  great way to met way people who participate in Doctors without borders is by participating in Doctors without borders"   It applies to almost everything , if you want to date people who love hiking go hiking.  " You should go hiking" is not critical but does point out the obvious inconsistency , it's repeatable and it might actually work one day.

    I have the idea though that her list represents; Things I value but do not have the drive , ability , knowledge, commitment to do myself.  I only boil water and wish I could cook rather then learning I'll marry someone who is  gourmet cook.  That will make me fill fulfilled.    In other word I think her impossible high list is really a self critique