So what if you -do- know why your friend can't find a guy?

[nyoprinces]

This thread got me thinking about "quirky" people - I was in a group in college that was sort of the definition of "quirky," and I noticed some things.

Everyone in the group prided themselves on being openly, proudly quirky, and enjoyed weird hobbies, frequently as a group. But I noticed that there were three types within the group when it came to dating: Those who were quirky, enjoyed being quirky, and sought out fellow quirky people to date; those who were quirky, enjoyed being quirky, flaunted their eccentricities, but thought that all of the other similarly quirky people in the group were just too weird to date; and those who were enjoyed the quirkiness within the group but also enjoyed other hobbies and could "assimilate" and date people outside the group.

The thing is, the first and third groups were happy, because they had the self-awareness to either enjoy similarly "weird" partners or to see when they were better served enjoying the hobby but not making it their life. It was the ones who insisted on being "weird" but refused to date "weird" that were miserable, all the time.

In other words, I don't think there's anything wrong with being weird, but you have to have self-awareness about it. You have to either choose to date equally weird people, or choose to not make it a full-time lifestyle.

Edited to add the point, because I forget sometimes: I don't know if any of that would help your friend, but if she's so proud of being eccentric, maybe there's a way to communicate something like that to her without being judgmental. That there's nothing wrong with quirk, but you have to decide what you want to do with it.

[hobish]

  I'm just curious does she work for "doctors without borders"?   I know that was an example , but I assume it stood in place of something like "I want some who..............donates 4 weeks to Habitate for humanity, spent a year in the peace core , feeds the homeless once a week"  etc.   I think this is the one thing you can actually address " Friend a  great way to met way people who participate in Doctors without borders is by participating in Doctors without borders"   It applies to almost everything , if you want to date people who love hiking go hiking.  " You should go hiking" is not critical but does point out the obvious inconsistency , it's repeatable and it might actually work one day.

    I have the idea though that her list represents; Things I value but do not have the drive , ability , knowledge, commitment to do myself.  I only boil water and wish I could cook rather then learning I'll marry someone who is  gourmet cook.  That will make me fill fulfilled.    In other word I think her impossible high list is really a self critique

That is a really great idea. And really, it applies to anyone, not just people with impossible standards, so it is even more so.

[faithlessone]

The situation sounds like a college friend of mine who "somehow" always "had the bad luck" to fall in love with gay men.  Time after time after time. It didn't take me long to realize that a guy's attractiveness was inversely proportional to his availability. Being attracted to the unobtainable takes away all responsibiilty for one's own love life and happiness or for any need for self-improvement.

I had this issue for a few years. In my defence, it mainly stemmed from the fact that my first boyfriend (my childhood sweetheart - we were together for about 5 years), broke up with me by coming out. I was completely heartbroken. After that, it was easier to just fancy unobtainable men, rather than risk getting hurt again.

I agree with the PPs that say she sounds like she's at least subconsciously aware of her faults, but doesn't want to change. Moaning to you is easier than either reconsidering her standards, or modifying her behaviour/activities to attract a 'better' man.

[Venus193]

One of my best friends is nearly permanently single. 

She was married briefly a few years ago after a whirlwind courtship with a guy every single person she knew said would 1) cheat on her and 2) steal her money.  I personally knew this--and told her so--after the guy pinned (!) me against a wall and slobbered all over my face (excuse me: "kissed" me) and, an hour or so later, dug through my handbag allegedly looking for gum.  She didn't believe me, stopped returning my calls, and married him anyway.  Three months later, we were friends again and she was getting a divorce. 

This is the only relationship I've known her to have in the nearly ten years we've been friends.  With V-Day coming up, she will inevitably call me up at least half a dozen times to ask why she can't find a good guy.  Historically, I've gone with what I believe is the standard feminine response: commiseration. 

But I know -exactly- why she can't find a guy.  She's got unbelievably high standards, for one thing.  Imagine a George Clooney look-alike who works for Doctors without Borders, cooks gourmet meals, and stands under her bedroom window playing acoustic covers of 80s power ballads in the rain.  A cute-ish guy who isn't a professional puppy killer and who makes an unusually tasty cheeseburger is unworthy of her consideration.  And she's chock-full of weirdo dating behaviors: saying "I Love You" twenty minutes in, for instance.   She once went with a guy to his work Christmas party, kind of dressy cocktail thing, in what I know was a wedding dress.  She tells half-hour anecdotes about her dog.

She's an awesome girl, fun and funny and a loyal friend.  But there's no way she knows that she's the reason pretty much no sane person will go out with her more than once. 

Is there any way I can politely, lovingly, gently, and kindly let her know what's what?  Or shall I go on commiserating until we're both dead?

Your friend has two serious problems:

1.  She is blind to the faults of men she is attracted to.
2.  Her weirdo dating behavior.

It's OK to have high standards; really, why should women be expected to settle for much less than we deserve?  However, any man would be weirded out by her dating behavior.

Unfortunately, I know of no polite way to express this.  This requires being direct.  Either you tell it like it is or tell her to stop wailing if she truly does't want any advice.

[lilfox]

I think the problem may stem from the contradictory advice of "Be yourself!" and "Stop being such a weirdo."

Yes, self-confidence, good self-esteem, good self-image - all of these things are attractive because they make you seem like a solid, stable, happy person.

But someone who claims that wearing a wedding dress on a casual date is just being herself... she's confusing "attention-getting" with confidence in herself.  It doesn't take inner strength to scare your date with an inappropriate outfit or behavior.

What a lot of makeover shows try to do is to demonstrate that you can be true to yourself without resorting to cheap gimmicks that you think show your quirky or outrageous personality, but really come across as off-putting, scary, or intimidating.  And that's what can be unattractive.  Lady Gaga and Nicki Minaj or whoever do it because it's a stage persona.  But do their wannabes really consider how many guys would really want a relationship with that persona?

The high standards are one thing, but if she's really looking for input about what she herself might be doing to scare off prospective boyfriends, a gentle reminder that if she doesn't want the kind of guy who seeks out, and exhibits, attention-getting behavior, maybe she should tone it down with the wackiness think about the behaviors that best reflect who she really is.

[immadz]

One of my best friends is nearly permanently single. 

She was married briefly a few years ago after a whirlwind courtship with a guy every single person she knew said would 1) cheat on her and 2) steal her money.  I personally knew this--and told her so--after the guy pinned (!) me against a wall and slobbered all over my face (excuse me: "kissed" me) and, an hour or so later, dug through my handbag allegedly looking for gum.  She didn't believe me, stopped returning my calls, and married him anyway.  Three months later, we were friends again and she was getting a divorce. 

This is the only relationship I've known her to have in the nearly ten years we've been friends.  With V-Day coming up, she will inevitably call me up at least half a dozen times to ask why she can't find a good guy.  Historically, I've gone with what I believe is the standard feminine response: commiseration. 

But I know -exactly- why she can't find a guy.  She's got unbelievably high standards, for one thing.  Imagine a George Clooney look-alike who works for Doctors without Borders, cooks gourmet meals, and stands under her bedroom window playing acoustic covers of 80s power ballads in the rain.  A cute-ish guy who isn't a professional puppy killer and who makes an unusually tasty cheeseburger is unworthy of her consideration.  And she's chock-full of weirdo dating behaviors: saying "I Love You" twenty minutes in, for instance.   She once went with a guy to his work Christmas party, kind of dressy cocktail thing, in what I know was a wedding dress.  She tells half-hour anecdotes about her dog.

She's an awesome girl, fun and funny and a loyal friend.  But there's no way she knows that she's the reason pretty much no sane person will go out with her more than once. 

Is there any way I can politely, lovingly, gently, and kindly let her know what's what?  Or shall I go on commiserating until we're both dead?

Your friend has two serious problems:

1.  She is blind to the faults of men she is attracted to.
2.  Her weirdo dating behavior.

It's OK to have high standards; really, why should women be expected to settle for much less than we deserve?  However, any man would be weirded out by her dating behavior.

Unfortunately, I know of no polite way to express this.  This requires being direct.  Either you tell it like it is or tell her to stop wailing if she truly does't want any advice.

I don't think direct is rude. It might not be well received but someone needs to tell her.

[weeblewobble]

There's a difference between singular and quirky and "beyond the bounds of good sense and psychologically balanced behavior."

Wearing a cute vintage dress to an office party? OK
Wearing a wedding dress to any social event that is NOT your wedding. NOT OK.

Telling someone "you're the bee's knees" 20 minutes into a date?  OK.
Telling someone, "I will love you forever.  I think we should name our firstborn, Albert." 20 minutes into the date. NOT OK

Sending a guy a cute little gift referencing your recent date? (i.e. a box of movie candy, a little toy, etc.) OK
Sending him a doll you've woven from stolen strands of his hair? NOT OK.

Does it stink that the weird friend can't be herself?  sure.  But she has to choose whether she wants to be alone and "free" to be herself, or practice a little self-control so other people enjoy her company.  She can't have it both ways.

[gramma dishes]

^^^  Thanks, Weeblewobble, for one of the most entertaining posts I've read all day.  I especially love your first sentence!!   

[Black Delphinium]

There's a difference between singular and quirky and "beyond the bounds of good sense and psychologically balanced behavior."

Wearing a cute vintage dress to an office party? OK
Wearing a wedding dress to any social event that is NOT your wedding(or a fancy dress/costume party). NOT OK.(fixed that for you )

Telling someone "you're the bee's knees" 20 minutes into a date?  OK.
Telling someone, "I will love you forever.  I think we should name our firstborn, Albert." 20 minutes into the date. NOT OK

Sending a guy a cute little gift referencing your recent date? (i.e. a boK.x of movie candy, a little toy, etc.) OK
Sending him a doll you've woven from stolen strands of his hair? NOT O

Does it stink that the weird friend can't be herself?  sure.  But she has to choose whether she wants to be alone and "free" to be herself, or practice a little self-control so other people enjoy her company.  She can't have it both ways.

[NutMeg]

Some posters have touched on this but I will reiterate -- the idea is to do things that allow you to be the person YOU want to be, not to do things to be the kind of person that will attract a man.  The result of being your "best you" will often be that you will exude confidence and happiness and joy that is attractive to men (or vice versa).  Conversely, it is incredibly difficult to maintain a facade created solely to attract a mate.

Not only that, it means that when you attract someone, they will be attracted to you, not a facade.

[Merry Mrs Martin]

There's a difference between singular and quirky and "beyond the bounds of good sense and psychologically balanced behavior."

Wearing a cute vintage dress to an office party? OK
Wearing a wedding dress to any social event that is NOT your wedding(or a fancy dress/costume party). NOT OK.(fixed that for you )

Telling someone "you're the bee's knees" 20 minutes into a date?  OK.
Telling someone, "I will love you forever.  I think we should name our firstborn, Albert." 20 minutes into the date. NOT OK

Sending a guy a cute little gift referencing your recent date? (i.e. a boK.x of movie candy, a little toy, etc.) OK
Sending him a doll you've woven from stolen strands of his hair? NOT O

Does it stink that the weird friend can't be herself?  sure.  But she has to choose whether she wants to be alone and "free" to be herself, or practice a little self-control so other people enjoy her company.  She can't have it both ways.

The wedding dress reminded me of the thread we had inspired by an Dear Abby? Margo? letter.  "I wear cat ears everywhere and my friend told me not to wear them to her wedding" A wedding dress outside of a wedding is a costume, it is right up there with wearing a wonder woman outfit.  It's not quirky ,it's deranged.  I'm not picking on OP friend you can be a great person and a little nuts at the same time. 

[squashedfrog]

we have a similar problem with a friend of DHs.  He always reminds me of Henry VIII.   

In his teens and early 20's he was sporty, rugged handsome with a full head of great hair.  He was the life and sole of the party and from the photos always had a beer in his hand!   Remember those fantastic days when you could eat/drink what you want and never really seem to put on weight?  And he really attacted some young dollybirds.

Thing is he still behaves like that and has put on a good 10 stone (140lbs) since then.  He is 38, now quite bald and the nicest way looks as if he has had a hard/party life - he looks a lot older than the other boys in the group the same age. 

However he still seems to view himself (outwardly at least) in the same way as when he was 18 - including the expectation to pull with the good looking young ladies.  He still goes to nightclubs a lot, and he is always moaning to DH and friends that he wants to settle down and find a great girl.  But the ones who are attracted to him - and who we tend to think are quite nice matches, are always beneath him.     

[mechtilde]

So yes, even at 23K a year, gold diggers hitting on you is still a possibility.

I managed to attract one when I was unemployed!

[Petticoats]

There's a difference between singular and quirky and "beyond the bounds of good sense and psychologically balanced behavior."
Wearing a cute vintage dress to an office party? OK
Wearing a wedding dress to any social event that is NOT your wedding. NOT OK.

Telling someone "you're the bee's knees" 20 minutes into a date?  OK.
Telling someone, "I will love you forever.  I think we should name our firstborn, Albert." 20 minutes into the date. NOT OK

Sending a guy a cute little gift referencing your recent date? (i.e. a box of movie candy, a little toy, etc.) OK
Sending him a doll you've woven from stolen strands of his hair? NOT OK.

Does it stink that the weird friend can't be herself?  sure.  But she has to choose whether she wants to be alone and "free" to be herself, or practice a little self-control so other people enjoy her company.  She can't have it both ways.

That's pretty much what I was going to say. OP, I think your friend would benefit from therapy; she sounds crackers.

As to how to address that without hurting her, I think you could tell her gently, "Honey, you seem to be experiencing so much distress about your love life, and I hate to see you hurting for so long. Have you thought about seeing a therapist to find ways to get on top of this and get into a happier place? It might help you get some perspective that I'm not able to offer."

[LeveeWoman]

I don't know.. if someone suggested that I am apparently so deranged that I need to see a therapist I would not be too happy with them. That might be worse than giving advice for some people.

I think some canned phrase like, "There is someone out there for everyone, don't give up." might be safer. You'd have to know the person of course.

Therapy is not limited to the "deranged"!