So what if you -do- know why your friend can't find a guy?

[TurtleDove]

I don't know.. if someone suggested that I am apparently so deranged that I need to see a therapist I would not be too happy with them. That might be worse than giving advice for some people.

I think some canned phrase like, "There is someone out there for everyone, don't give up." might be safer. You'd have to know the person of course.

Well, no one wants to hear unflattering true assessments.  People who have drug or other problems rarely want to hear it either, but I would not advocate that telling them "eh, a little heroin never hurt anyone" is the kindest response.  I think it comes down to the relationship, as you pointed out.  Sometimes tough love is necessary, sometimes the relationship is not of the type that it would be at all productive.

[Reason]

I don't know.. if someone suggested that I am apparently so deranged that I need to see a therapist I would not be too happy with them. That might be worse than giving advice for some people.

I think some canned phrase like, "There is someone out there for everyone, don't give up." might be safer. You'd have to know the person of course.

Therapy is not limited to the "deranged"!

Of course not, sorry if it looks like I implied that.

I am just saying some people (including me) may not react well to "Hey, you need to see a therapist".

The same way they may react badly to "Hey, you could really use some liposuction." or "Hey, I know a great plastic surgeon for your nose."

[Seraphia]

I don't know.. if someone suggested that I am apparently so deranged that I need to see a therapist I would not be too happy with them. That might be worse than giving advice for some people.

I think some canned phrase like, "There is someone out there for everyone, don't give up." might be safer. You'd have to know the person of course.

Therapy is not limited to the "deranged"!

Of course not, sorry if it looks like I implied that.

I am just saying some people (including me) may not react well to "Hey, you need to see a therapist".

The same way they may react badly to "Hey, you could really use some liposuction." or "Hey, I know a great plastic surgeon for your nose."

The difference is, if someone comes to you over, and over, and over, and over saying "I haaaaaaaate my nose (dating life). Why doesn't it just look better?" you can say "Well, noses (mindsets) don't change on their own. Maybe you should see a doctor who can help change how you feel about your nose (act in relationships)." Some thought patterns are as unchangeable as facial features - i.e. it takes a major event to alter things. No, you should not walk up to someone on the street and say: "Boy, you're really screwed up. You need to see a doctor." But in the context of a friendship, it can be perfectly appropriate to say: "Your troubles with this are beyond me. I think you should talk to a professional."

[LeveeWoman]

I don't know.. if someone suggested that I am apparently so deranged that I need to see a therapist I would not be too happy with them. That might be worse than giving advice for some people.

I think some canned phrase like, "There is someone out there for everyone, don't give up." might be safer. You'd have to know the person of course.

Therapy is not limited to the "deranged"!

Of course not, sorry if it looks like I implied that.

I am just saying some people (including me) may not react well to "Hey, you need to see a therapist".

The same way they may react badly to "Hey, you could really use some liposuction." or "Hey, I know a great plastic surgeon for your nose."

There's a difference in telling someone she could benefit from talking with a counsellor v. telling her she's fat or has an awful nose.

About suggesting a counsellor, there are many ways to broach the topic carefully and diplomatically.

[Carotte]

The situation sounds like a college friend of mine who "somehow" always "had the bad luck" to fall in love with gay men.  Time after time after time. It didn't take me long to realize that a guy's attractiveness was inversely proportional to his availability. Being attracted to the unobtainable takes away all responsibility for one's own love life and happiness or for any need for self-improvement.
[/quote]

My personal g.a.ydar is completely busted half the time, always when I find the guy interesting, I even had a crush on someone who hadn't come out to himself yet (so I now joke that I 'break' men and turn them g.a.y) - but in the same time I can rationalize why I am attracted to certain guys that I know would not be a good idea to date.
I was keeping myself from being happy with someone because I didn't have the self confidence to think "hey! I deserve to be happy, bring me the cute* guy for once".
I found someone who boosted my confidence and I know I act and look "better" and happier and I'm probably more attractive to other guys.

What I wanted to say is, I didn't need therapy to come to this conclusion, because I did the work on myself to try an analyze what was going on, but OP's friend could use it, I just don't know if there's a good way to broach the subject...



* I have a very large spectrum of what cute means, and it's not just the looks - I'm not looking for a supermodel since I know I'm not one, and I believe look is not all there is in someone.

[Petticoats]

I don't know.. if someone suggested that I am apparently so deranged that I need to see a therapist I would not be too happy with them. That might be worse than giving advice for some people.

I think some canned phrase like, "There is someone out there for everyone, don't give up." might be safer. You'd have to know the person of course.

Therapy is not limited to the "deranged"!

Of course not, sorry if it looks like I implied that.

I am just saying some people (including me) may not react well to "Hey, you need to see a therapist".

The same way they may react badly to "Hey, you could really use some liposuction." or "Hey, I know a great plastic surgeon for your nose."

This is why I offered the suggested wording that I did. My personal opinion is that the OP's friend is crackers. I didn't say she should *tell* her friend this. I think there are ways of gently suggesting that a therapist may help someone with struggles she seems to keep having--with a pattern in her life. That doesn't sound like "you need straightening out" as much as "perhaps another perspective can help you."

ETA: On reflection I retract my rather harsh "crackers" description and will just say that I think the OP's friend could benefit greatly from seeing a good therapist--and that there are kind, constructive ways of telling her this, unless she is among those who automatically equate seeing a therapist with admitting to being crazy, because I know that, sadly, there are people who believe this.

[MerryCat]

So yes, even at 23K a year, gold diggers hitting on you is still a possibility.

I managed to attract one when I was unemployed!

So true! Not all gold diggers have high standards. Some will settle for "has slighter more money and better credit than me.... for now." There's no one so poor that someone else won't try to take what little they've got.

[Seraphia]

So yes, even at 23K a year, gold diggers hitting on you is still a possibility.

I managed to attract one when I was unemployed!

So true! Not all gold diggers have high standards. Some will settle for "has slighter more money and better credit than me.... for now." There's no one so poor that someone else won't try to take what little they've got.

Very true! I have a teacher friend with problems very similar to the OP's friend. She left her job in anticipation of moving to another state and changing fields. She had no job, but managed to attract a user with no job, no car, a mental illness for which the medication kept mysteriously "running out" and subsequently, no home. Thankfully, she managed to leave without getting too attached, but even in the few weeks they dated, she wound up paying for quite a lot of his groceries, transport and medication, and he was begging/guilting her to pay for his cell phone so they could keep talking after she moved.

I wound up telling her: "You know how you keep saying you can't find a good guy? Look for the EXACT OPPOSITE of that one, and you'll be into safe territory."

[Virg]

weeblewobble wrote:

"Does it stink that the weird friend can't be herself?  sure.  But she has to choose whether she wants to be alone and "free" to be herself, or practice a little self-control so other people enjoy her company.  She can't have it both ways."

I tend to think that she can indeed be herself, but the problem is that she's decided that she doesn't want to date the kind of person who's attracted to weird, and that's where the failure lies.  I know plenty of people who are really off the wall, but happy, because they realize it and they're comfortable being with the kind of people that gravitate to "weirdoes".  It's her quirkiness combined with her rather hypocritical standards that's putting her in a bind.  I suspect that's why half of the advice leans toward "learn to like guys that will like you as you are" and half toward "consider changing yourself to attract the kind of guy you like" because at present, the two don't match in her life.

As for your friend, lellah, I'll agree with the suggestion for her to sign on a life coach, because such a person will be able to tell her about this discrepancy in a way that you won't, because the life coach will be an impartial party.  She may not get the message or may reject it, but at least she won't be able to blame you for it.

Virg

[Iris]

I had a good laugh at myself last night, courtesy of this thread 

After reading all the updates and agreeing that this wedding dress wearing woman was a little ... unusual... I remembered that I have actually worn a wedding dress to a non-wedding. 

I should explain that it was a velvet dress with batwing sleeves. And a friend's who, after the whole wedding thing didn't work out, decided it was too awesome a dress to just not wear. And at uni my crowd DEFINED quirky. In fact we used to 'play dress ups' every time we went out.

I'm much more sensible now, I promise 

[Surianne]

I had a good laugh at myself last night, courtesy of this thread 

After reading all the updates and agreeing that this wedding dress wearing woman was a little ... unusual... I remembered that I have actually worn a wedding dress to a non-wedding. 

I should explain that it was a velvet dress with batwing sleeves. And a friend's who, after the whole wedding thing didn't work out, decided it was too awesome a dress to just not wear. And at uni my crowd DEFINED quirky. In fact we used to 'play dress ups' every time we went out.

I'm much more sensible now, I promise 

Love it.  I do this sort of thing (though I haven't with a wedding dress).  Like dress up crazy and go out to the pub (love wearing our most bizarre outfits to karaoke), or hang out at the park in costumes/odd clothes...it's fun!  And yes, this is with a quirky group too -- mostly actors, musicians, and writers. 

[Iris]

I had a good laugh at myself last night, courtesy of this thread 

After reading all the updates and agreeing that this wedding dress wearing woman was a little ... unusual... I remembered that I have actually worn a wedding dress to a non-wedding. 

I should explain that it was a velvet dress with batwing sleeves. And a friend's who, after the whole wedding thing didn't work out, decided it was too awesome a dress to just not wear. And at uni my crowd DEFINED quirky. In fact we used to 'play dress ups' every time we went out.

I'm much more sensible now, I promise 

Love it.  I do this sort of thing (though I haven't with a wedding dress).  Like dress up crazy and go out to the pub (love wearing our most bizarre outfits to karaoke), or hang out at the park in costumes/odd clothes...it's fun!  And yes, this is with a quirky group too -- mostly actors, musicians, and writers.

AND I didn't have an impossible wish list for my mythical man. I just married DH who used to carry a cane for no good reason, just because he thought it looked cool  We both settled down together, although youngest DD found a photo of me from uni and assumed my friends and I were going to a costume party and asked who I was dressed up as...

[Yvaine]

I don't know.. if someone suggested that I am apparently so deranged that I need to see a therapist I would not be too happy with them. That might be worse than giving advice for some people.

I think some canned phrase like, "There is someone out there for everyone, don't give up." might be safer. You'd have to know the person of course.

Therapy is not limited to the "deranged"!

Of course not, sorry if it looks like I implied that.

I am just saying some people (including me) may not react well to "Hey, you need to see a therapist".

The same way they may react badly to "Hey, you could really use some liposuction." or "Hey, I know a great plastic surgeon for your nose."

This seems at odds with your reaction to your co-worker's body-shaping issues--unless you're applying advice you got from that thread, of course! 

[DuBois]

I don't know.. if someone suggested that I am apparently so deranged that I need to see a therapist I would not be too happy with them. That might be worse than giving advice for some people.

I think some canned phrase like, "There is someone out there for everyone, don't give up." might be safer. You'd have to know the person of course.

Therapy is not limited to the "deranged"!

Of course not, sorry if it looks like I implied that.

I am just saying some people (including me) may not react well to "Hey, you need to see a therapist".

The same way they may react badly to "Hey, you could really use some liposuction." or "Hey, I know a great plastic surgeon for your nose."

This seems at odds with your reaction to your co-worker's body-shaping issues--unless you're applying advice you got from that thread, of course! 

I'm not sure I agree that the two are at odds. In Reason's thread, he wasn't suggesting that anything was 'wrong' with the woman, just that she could make a simple change and see better results. While I do not agree with the stigma surrounding therapy, I think that there is a difference between 'see a therapist' and 'eat differently in conjunction with something that you are already doing' (i.e. excercising)

[Yvaine]

I don't know.. if someone suggested that I am apparently so deranged that I need to see a therapist I would not be too happy with them. That might be worse than giving advice for some people.

I think some canned phrase like, "There is someone out there for everyone, don't give up." might be safer. You'd have to know the person of course.

Therapy is not limited to the "deranged"!

Of course not, sorry if it looks like I implied that.

I am just saying some people (including me) may not react well to "Hey, you need to see a therapist".

The same way they may react badly to "Hey, you could really use some liposuction." or "Hey, I know a great plastic surgeon for your nose."

This seems at odds with your reaction to your co-worker's body-shaping issues--unless you're applying advice you got from that thread, of course! 

I'm not sure I agree that the two are at odds. In Reason's thread, he wasn't suggesting that anything was 'wrong' with the woman, just that she could make a simple change and see better results. While I do not agree with the stigma surrounding therapy, I think that there is a difference between 'see a therapist' and 'eat differently in conjunction with something that you are already doing' (i.e. excercising)

But "see a therapist" need not mean "something is wrong with you" either. You can't suggest it in every relationship situation, but there are times, if you're really close to someone, then you might be able to suggest the friend see a therapist if they've asked you for advice, and if you really are that close. It's the same thing for "you need to go on a diet," IMO. It's rude to go around unsolicitedly suggesting it willy-nilly to everyone you know; it can be acceptable if you have a close friend who genuinely wants your dietary advice. The key is if they really want advice and you're really really sure of that, whether it's on physical or mental health issues. The problem in the other thread was that Reason misunderstood the co-worker--she wanted to blow off steam, not receive instruction. The disconnect I see is that Reason says he wouldn't want unsolicited health advice (mental health in this case) but finds it frustrating when we tell him that his co-worker might feel the same way.

And as an added issue, equating therapy with "derangement" is insulting to the many, many ehellions who have gone to therapy, and smacks of ableism.