This communication error is solely on me...

[Dindrane]

Well, if that is what he thinks, isn't it better to know so that you can address it?  Either he's got a point, and you step up what you're contributing, or he's missing some stuff you're already doing and you can talk about that.  The alternative, if he thinks you're slacking off in some way, is that you have no idea and he quietly resents you until it's an actual problem.

In my experience, there are few things in relationships between people (but especially romantic, cohabiting relationships) that are best left hidden, unsaid, or buried.

The other thing I noticed, in going back and reading your original post and the one you just made, perhaps part of the problem with the joking is that it's kind of competitive.  Competitive joking can be fun, if everyone is in the right mood, but if the desire to "win" is strong, it can lead to bad feelings at the end.

In addition to that, the amount of work one puts into a relationship/household shouldn't really be a matter of competition.  Going down that path does not instantly lead to ruin, but it can set up some pretty bad precedents.  When you start comparing who works longer, who earns more, who washes the dishes more often, etc., and using those things to decide on a "winner" (and therefore a "loser"), things can quickly deteriorate into a mess of bad feelings.  It's important to compare stuff like that in order to determine a fair distribution of household work, but once you've distributed everything, it's not especially helpful to focus on it.  Better, I think, for both people to acknowledge the hard work the other person does, and express appreciation for their having done it.

[LadyL]

Well, if that is what he thinks, isn't it better to know so that you can address it?  Either he's got a point, and you step up what you're contributing, or he's missing some stuff you're already doing and you can talk about that.  The alternative, if he thinks you're slacking off in some way, is that you have no idea and he quietly resents you until it's an actual problem.

In my experience, there are few things in relationships between people (but especially romantic, cohabiting relationships) that are best left hidden, unsaid, or buried.

POD. If you feel like you're not doing enough maybe you should get some feedback on whether that is guilt/perfectionism talking or if you really could use more of your free time to help out around the house. It's tough when an adult is not contributing financially to a household because it's harder to quantify what they do contribute. However, if it is spelled out clearly - i.e. "DM does X hours a week of household errands, maintenance, and cleaning in exchange for room and board" then you're not in this ambiguous, uncomfortable place wondering if you don't do enough.

These are definitely things you should be able to talk about with someone you want to spend the rest of your life with. LordL and I are constantly renegotiating who does what chores based on what our schedules are like and what seems fair.

[WillyNilly]

Oh, not at all actually. The jokes are more along the lines of "I'm a boy because I'd ether play video games all day than go shopping" or "I'm a guy because it only takes me 20 minutes to get ready instead of an hour"; just things about how I don't fit the stereotypes at all. I can see in your instance though how jokes about me wearing the pants constantly would get old and would result in him saying what he did.

We have agreed upon chores for some things. I usually cook because of his work schedule and because I do the dishes in the mean time. He is responsible for taking out the trash before he goes to work. He feeds the dogs in the mornings. I keep them up to date on their shots and flea medicine. It is obvious though that we need to work out more exact things for other chores, though.

Fair enough, but from your description, you actually said that the jokes were about you being more masculine than he is. 

This started off being less about chores and more about how the joking made you feel.  You maybe need to both come to a realisation that college is work, and that it needs to be treated as such.  So you may need to stop picking up the slack and/ or come to some sort of agreement whereby you taking up the slack at home is recognised in some way, possibly by both of you having access to some 'mad money' each pay period which you can spend as you see fit or whatever.

I'm sorry, I'm being really confusing.  I joke all of the time about how I am masculine.  The joking around in this instance began because he made a joke about me being more masculine than he because I'm the handyman (as in I was fixing the fence and he was putting away groceries).  I was pointing out that I am usually the one to joke that I am masculine (though not necessarily more masculine than he) because I wanted to let people know that him calling me masculine is not a sore spot and I usually find it funny (which I did in this instance, too).

Obviously I don't know your boyfriend, but I've got lots of guy friends and I've had way more then my fair share of boyfriends  and while every guy is individual, one thing I can say is rather universal (to varying degrees of course, but always there) is that to a certain extent [straight] guys want their girlfriends (or fiances, or wives) to be feminine.  Even guys who are totally about equality, no gender roles, etc, still want to feel to a certain extent like "the man" to their "woman".  She can be a strong independent woman, but she needs to be distinctly a she.

Sure there's a place for joking, but if you are repeatedly calling yourself out as "masculine" what does that say about DB and his taste in mates?  That he likes manly girls?  Its the kind of thing that can subconsciously eat away at a romance.  There's the danger of him starting to see you as 'one of the guys' instead of as his girlfriend.  And guys joke a lot more harshly with one another then [successful] couples do, IME.

[Reason]

Seems to me like he was just saving face, not that you can blame him for that. You called him out (in front of his family?) about you having to do all the work around the house because he can't even fix a fence. Or that's how he most likely heard it. He responded with a joke about how you must have too much free time on your hands.

I completely agree with WillyNilly in that these kinds of jokes and subtle digs at each other's self esteem and confidence can very quickly eat away at romance. The way I see it is would you rather be in a relationship where the man brings you flowers out of blue every now and then and even tells you that you are beautiful or in a relationship where the man constantly makes jokes about how manly you are (even if you initiate it). Conversely would your man rather be in a relationship where you tell him that he can't even change a car tire and is scared of bugs or in a relationship in which you recognize and compliment his strength/competence/artistic ability/whatever draws you to him?

Of course, different things work for different people so this is just an opinion.

[Mental Magpie]

I am still having trouble finding a nice and calm way to respond to some of these comments.  In the mean time, I need to reiterate that he made the joke.  Initially he posted it on Facebook.  In talking about how our dog kept getting out, his brother mentioned the joke that Dark Boyfriend posted on Facebook.  I have never joked about being more masculine than he and I don't know where any of you are getting that idea (if I did make it seem that way, please point out where, because I didn't mean to).  I did not call him out and I don't know where you're getting that I have to do more work around the house because he can't even fix a fence.

[WillyNilly]

I am still having trouble finding a nice and calm way to respond to some of these comments.  In the mean time, I need to reiterate that he made the joke.  Initially he posted it on Facebook.  In talking about how our dog kept getting out, his brother mentioned the joke that Dark Boyfriend posted on Facebook.  I have never joked about being more masculine than he and I don't know where any of you are getting that idea (if I did make it seem that way, please point out where, because I didn't mean to).  I did not call him out and I don't know where you're getting that I have to do more work around the house because he can't even fix a fence.

Its not about you joking you "being more masculine than [him]" but just joking about being masculine in general.  Repeatedly saying you are masculine to your boyfriend can be problematic.  For several reasons.

It can, as previously mentioned impact the romance as he starts to see you as "one of the guys" and not as his feminine girlfriend.

It can enforce the ideas of gender roles (fixing a fence in 2012 doesn't have to be a "mans job" its simply a task that needed doing), and that can put pressure on him - especially once you bring the income factor into it.  This man is not even your husband (yet?) but he's financially pulling the weight in the relationship - a traditionally "male role" but bringing gender roles into play you could be making him feel like he is stuck supporting you, like its his role to do so.  Like its an obligation and not an offer.

On the gender role thing as well, if you are defining tasks by gender does that mean you are saying you do the masculine tasks and the feminine tasks in the relationship, thereby eliminating the need for him, or are you saying you do the masculine tasks and he should be doing the feminine tasks thereby emasculating him?

And at its most base, if you make pot shots at yourself, it opens the conversation to anyone making potshots about you.

[Reason]

We are currently at his brother's house.  Their mother and her long-term boyfriend are also here.  In a joke, I mentioned how I was the one repairing the fence. His brother basically quoted the quote that was next posted on Facebook, then I the next, and his brother the following. 

Dark Boyfriend then replied, "Yeah, when was the last time you actually worked a job?"*

Sorry, I tried to condense your post into the core miscommunication that I was able to glean from it.

Here is the thing about jokes. If you make a joke to a man about him having scrawny 10 inch biceps, or a joke about the tub of junk he calls a car or any joke that threatens his manhood - such as making your wife or girlfriend fix a fence for you - you can expect some heat back.

Please don't be offended, that's just how I see it. Doesn't mean I am right or it even applies to you if your boyfriend does not in fact care about such things. Most men I know do and that's all I am saying.

[Mental Magpie]

I am still having trouble finding a nice and calm way to respond to some of these comments.  In the mean time, I need to reiterate that he made the joke.  Initially he posted it on Facebook.  In talking about how our dog kept getting out, his brother mentioned the joke that Dark Boyfriend posted on Facebook.  I have never joked about being more masculine than he and I don't know where any of you are getting that idea (if I did make it seem that way, please point out where, because I didn't mean to).  I did not call him out and I don't know where you're getting that I have to do more work around the house because he can't even fix a fence.

Its not about you joking you "being more masculine than [him]" but just joking about being masculine in general.  Repeatedly saying you are masculine to your boyfriend can be problematic.  For several reasons.

It can, as previously mentioned impact the romance as he starts to see you as "one of the guys" and not as his feminine girlfriend.

It can enforce the ideas of gender roles (fixing a fence in 2012 doesn't have to be a "mans job" its simply a task that needed doing), and that can put pressure on him - especially once you bring the income factor into it.  This man is not even your husband (yet?) but he's financially pulling the weight in the relationship - a traditionally "male role" but bringing gender roles into play you could be making him feel like he is stuck supporting you, like its his role to do so.  Like its an obligation and not an offer.

On the gender role thing as well, if you are defining tasks by gender does that mean you are saying you do the masculine tasks and the feminine tasks in the relationship, thereby eliminating the need for him, or are you saying you do the masculine tasks and he should be doing the feminine tasks thereby emasculating him?

And at its most base, if you make pot shots at yourself, it opens the conversation to anyone making potshots about you.

We have been friends for 12 years and have had crushes on each other for 9-10 years; we've been dating for the last 2.  If he hasn't figured out by now that I'm a tomboy, he hasn't been paying attention.  Frankly, when he brags to his friends that he doesn't have to worry about his girlfriend nagging him about playing video games all day because she is doing it, too, or when he thanks me for not being "crazy" like a girl we have just seen behave "crazy", or thanks me for refusing to watch shows like "Keeping Up With The Kardashians" or "Jersey Shore", I don't think he has any problem with the way I act.  I am more like one of the guys, and that's what he likes about me.

The reason I was having trouble responding calmly and nicely to some comments is because I feel extremely insulted.  Both you and Reason seem to think that I walk around saying I'm masculine 10 times a day every day.  I did say constantly, but that's like once a week; it is constant enough that it is a long running joke and has been during the entire 12 years I've known Dark Boyfriend.  Our friends joke about it, too.  Our tasks are not defined by gender; they're defined by who is in the better situation to be doing things.  When I got home with the groceries, he was in his PJs.  He would have had to get dressed in warm clothes to go outside; I was already dressed that way, hence I did that task.  We both do feminine and masculine tasks; I'm home more and have more free time, so I tend to do most of the tasks regardless of the gender usually associated with them. 

I make pot shots about me being a tomboy; those jokes I can take.  Saying something about me not having a job was out of line; it didn't pertain to the teasing at hand.  I've never joked about me not having a job, either, so I don't know why he thought it was appropriate.

Reason - I expected heat back, but not irrelevant or mean heat back.  As you can see above, he didn't make me fix it.  I was in the best position to fix it so I did.  Again, I didn't make the joke about me being outside fixing a fence with him inside putting away groceries.  He made that joke; he opened himself up for heat back, then he couldn't take it and made a low blow, IMO.

[amylouky]

I am still having trouble finding a nice and calm way to respond to some of these comments.  In the mean time, I need to reiterate that he made the joke.  Initially he posted it on Facebook.  In talking about how our dog kept getting out, his brother mentioned the joke that Dark Boyfriend posted on Facebook.  I have never joked about being more masculine than he and I don't know where any of you are getting that idea (if I did make it seem that way, please point out where, because I didn't mean to).  I did not call him out and I don't know where you're getting that I have to do more work around the house because he can't even fix a fence.

I think it's a bit confusing as to what happened. You did say that

In a joke (and I know Dark Boyfriend knows it is a joke because I have specifically addressed it with him), I mentioned how I was the one repairing the fence (because 1 of 2 dogs was escaping)

 
which did sound like you brought it up. You didn't say that his brother was the one to mention the joke on FB first, and when I read this I was thinking it was a case of "it's okay for me to joke about myself, but not for you to." Kind of like, I might make a joke about myself being fat, but woe to DH if he ever hinted that he thinks I am.

You also said that jokes about you being masculine are frequent, which, even if you're not specifically saying "I'm more of a man than you", and even if DB makes jokes along those lines also, can still sting. The male ego is a strange and not always so wonderful beast. (Not trying to be sexist here.. we women have our own irrational sensitivities, to be sure.)

I'm speaking from experience.. DH and I went through this early in our relationship. He is basically completely useless at fixing things around the house, mainly because he's not that good at following instructions and has very little patience. I, on the other hand, generally love tinkering with things, so most of the home repair falls on me. It used to be a source of jokes for us until I realized that even though he was going along with the jokes, it really WAS making him feel like he wasn't doing his job as the "man of the household".

My first thought on reading your post, and the "joke" that he made about you having a job, was that he was feeling defensive about the manly issue, so he decided to shift the focus on you and make you the butt of the joke for a while. Which is why, as PPs have said, this kind of "teasing" joking can be really dangerous for a relationship and can get out of hand and lead to hurt feelings really quickly (as I think you've seen).

I don't think confronting DB about this is the way to go.. it sounds like you've both gotten into a habit of jokingly insulting each other, and he just happened to hit on something that hurt your feelings. Maybe talking to him about both of you easing up on the teasing is called for, so you don't accidentally get in this situation again?

[WillyNilly]

We have been friends for 12 years and have had crushes on each other for 9-10 years; we've been dating for the last 2.  If he hasn't figured out by now that I'm a tomboy, he hasn't been paying attention.  Frankly, when he brags to his friends that he doesn't have to worry about his girlfriend nagging him about playing video games all day because she is doing it, too, or when he thanks me for not being "crazy" like a girl we have just seen behave "crazy", or thanks me for refusing to watch shows like "Keeping Up With The Kardashians" or "Jersey Shore", I don't think he has any problem with the way I act.  I am more like one of the guys, and that's what he likes about me.

FYI none of those things are "feminine" or "girly" things especially.  I'm not a tomboy and I do not watch the Kardashians or Jersey Shore nor do any of my girlfriends... but I know plenty of rather masculine guys who do (well Jersey Shore at least, and I know masculine teenage boys who watch the Kardashians).  And FYI being "crazy" has zero to do with gender at all either.  Same with video games - I know as many female gamers as male, perhaps more simply because I'm closer friends with more females then men.

But you know what does have to do with gender?  Joking about being masculine.  And calling yourself "one of the guys".

The reason I was having trouble responding calmly and nicely to some comments is because I feel extremely insulted.  Both you and Reason seem to think that I walk around saying I'm masculine 10 times a day every day.  I did say constantly, but that's like once a week; it is constant enough that it is a long running joke and has been during the entire 12 years I've known Dark Boyfriend.  Our friends joke about it, too.  Our tasks are not defined by gender; they're defined by who is in the better situation to be doing things.  When I got home with the groceries, he was in his PJs.  He would have had to get dressed in warm clothes to go outside; I was already dressed that way, hence I did that task.  We both do feminine and masculine tasks; I'm home more and have more free time, so I tend to do most of the tasks regardless of the gender usually associated with them. 

I did not mean to offend, but yes you wrote "constantly".  You put the idea of this happening over and over all the time into the equation.  So of course I took you at your words - that you do this constantly.

And as for gender roles, you also brought that up in this conversation as something you bring into conversation with him.  I am only taking you at your posted words here.  I don't know you make statements about how you act otherwise, I only know what you are providing on the boards.

Certainly my intent is not t insult you, but rather to help you see how your communications are coming across to others in order to help you have a better time of things.

Edited to add the the word "know", which makes the "but you know what...?" statement a whole lot clearer 

[Mental Magpie]

I am still having trouble finding a nice and calm way to respond to some of these comments.  In the mean time, I need to reiterate that he made the joke.  Initially he posted it on Facebook.  In talking about how our dog kept getting out, his brother mentioned the joke that Dark Boyfriend posted on Facebook.  I have never joked about being more masculine than he and I don't know where any of you are getting that idea (if I did make it seem that way, please point out where, because I didn't mean to).  I did not call him out and I don't know where you're getting that I have to do more work around the house because he can't even fix a fence.

I think it's a bit confusing as to what happened. You did say that

In a joke (and I know Dark Boyfriend knows it is a joke because I have specifically addressed it with him), I mentioned how I was the one repairing the fence (because 1 of 2 dogs was escaping)

 
which did sound like you brought it up. You didn't say that his brother was the one to mention the joke on FB first, and when I read this I was thinking it was a case of "it's okay for me to joke about myself, but not for you to." Kind of like, I might make a joke about myself being fat, but woe to DH if he ever hinted that he thinks I am.

You also said that jokes about you being masculine are frequent, which, even if you're not specifically saying "I'm more of a man than you", and even if DB makes jokes along those lines also, can still sting. The male ego is a strange and not always so wonderful beast. (Not trying to be sexist here.. we women have our own irrational sensitivities, to be sure.)

I'm speaking from experience.. DH and I went through this early in our relationship. He is basically completely useless at fixing things around the house, mainly because he's not that good at following instructions and has very little patience. I, on the other hand, generally love tinkering with things, so most of the home repair falls on me. It used to be a source of jokes for us until I realized that even though he was going along with the jokes, it really WAS making him feel like he wasn't doing his job as the "man of the household".

My first thought on reading your post, and the "joke" that he made about you having a job, was that he was feeling defensive about the manly issue, so he decided to shift the focus on you and make you the butt of the joke for a while. Which is why, as PPs have said, this kind of "teasing" joking can be really dangerous for a relationship and can get out of hand and lead to hurt feelings really quickly (as I think you've seen).

I don't think confronting DB about this is the way to go.. it sounds like you've both gotten into a habit of jokingly insulting each other, and he just happened to hit on something that hurt your feelings. Maybe talking to him about both of you easing up on the teasing is called for, so you don't accidentally get in this situation again?

Ok, for ease of explaining this, this is how the convo went:

DM: So when I was outside fixing the fence, I saw a car with a bumper sticker that said "I don't just hug trees, I kiss them, too."
Brother: You mean while DB was inside putting the groceries away? -grin-
DB: Yeah, that she bought with my money.
DM:  Yeah, but you didn't have to go shopping (something we both hate), so you got off easy.
DB: I've had to go shopping lately.
DM:  Yeah, but when was the last time you went alone for the both of us?
DB:  Like a year ago -chuckle-...-pause-  Well when was the last time you had a job?

Please refer to my previous post in response to WillyNilly.  Dark Boyfriend has thanked me for the very things I do that are "more masculine", like playing video games.  I can see where if I was daily saying I'm masculine, he would feel resentment.  He has only ever thanked me for these things, so I don't think that's the case in our situation. 

[WillyNilly]

Dark Boyfriend has thanked me for the very things I do that are "more masculine", like playing video games.

This statement alone is offensive to billions of females everywhere.  Video games are not considered "masculine" in 2012 by most people I know, gamers or not.

[Mental Magpie]

We have been friends for 12 years and have had crushes on each other for 9-10 years; we've been dating for the last 2.  If he hasn't figured out by now that I'm a tomboy, he hasn't been paying attention.  Frankly, when he brags to his friends that he doesn't have to worry about his girlfriend nagging him about playing video games all day because she is doing it, too, or when he thanks me for not being "crazy" like a girl we have just seen behave "crazy", or thanks me for refusing to watch shows like "Keeping Up With The Kardashians" or "Jersey Shore", I don't think he has any problem with the way I act.  I am more like one of the guys, and that's what he likes about me.

FYI none of those things are "feminine" or "girly" things especially.  I'm not a tomboy and I do not watch the Kardashians or Jersey Shore nor do any of my girlfriends... but I know plenty of rather masculine guys who do (well Jersey Shore at least, and I know masculine teenage boys who watch the Kardashians).  And FYI being "crazy" has zero to do with gender at all either.  Same with video games - I know as many female gamers as male, perhaps more simply because I'm closer friends with more females then men.

But you what does have to do with gender?  Joking about being masculine.  And calling yourself "one of the guys".

Thank you, I am fully aware that they are not particularly "girly" or "feminine", nor that only females can be "crazy", nor only men play video games.  I am saying specifically that boyfriend has thanked me for not being someone that watches those or acts like that or harps on him for playing video games.  Those are the specific things about which I joke about being more masculine.  Another one is fashion.  I joke about my fashion sense being that of a teenage boy's: whatever is on top of the laundry pile.

Re the bolded:  I honestly don't know what you're saying here  I am thoroughly confused by it.

They are regarded as things only or mostly guys do with everyone I know and have met in classes.  The surprise I hear/see when I mentioned I spent all night playing MW3 is testament to that.  I did not mean to offend anyone, the statement is true to what I know.

Dark Boyfriend has thanked me for the very things I do that are "more masculine", like playing video games.

This statement alone is offensive to billions of females everywhere.  Video games are not considered "masculine" in 2012 by most people I know, gamers or not.

[LadyL]

Ok, for ease of explaining this, this is how the convo went:

DM: So when I was outside fixing the fence, I saw a car with a bumper sticker that said "I don't just hug trees, I kiss them, too."
Brother: You mean while DB was inside putting the groceries away? -grin-
DB: Yeah, that she bought with my money.
DM:  Yeah, but you didn't have to go shopping (something we both hate), so you got off easy.
DB: I've had to go shopping lately.
DM:  Yeah, but when was the last time you went alone for the both of us?
DB:  Like a year ago -chuckle-...-pause-  Well when was the last time you had a job?

I think this is a relationship issue, not an etiquette issue. It sounds to me like your boyfriend is a bit resentful that you don't contribute financially to the household, and in turn you are self conscious about it.

[WillyNilly]

We have been friends for 12 years and have had crushes on each other for 9-10 years; we've been dating for the last 2.  If he hasn't figured out by now that I'm a tomboy, he hasn't been paying attention.  Frankly, when he brags to his friends that he doesn't have to worry about his girlfriend nagging him about playing video games all day because she is doing it, too, or when he thanks me for not being "crazy" like a girl we have just seen behave "crazy", or thanks me for refusing to watch shows like "Keeping Up With The Kardashians" or "Jersey Shore", I don't think he has any problem with the way I act.  I am more like one of the guys, and that's what he likes about me.

FYI none of those things are "feminine" or "girly" things especially.  I'm not a tomboy and I do not watch the Kardashians or Jersey Shore nor do any of my girlfriends... but I know plenty of rather masculine guys who do (well Jersey Shore at least, and I know masculine teenage boys who watch the Kardashians).  And FYI being "crazy" has zero to do with gender at all either.  Same with video games - I know as many female gamers as male, perhaps more simply because I'm closer friends with more females then men.

But you [know] what does have to do with gender?  Joking about being masculine.  And calling yourself "one of the guys".

Thank you, I am fully aware that they are not particularly "girly" or "feminine", nor that only females can be "crazy", nor only men play video games.  I am saying specifically that boyfriend has thanked me for not being someone that watches those or acts like that or harps on him for playing video games.  Those are the specific things about which I joke about being more masculine.  Another one is fashion.  I joke about my fashion sense being that of a teenage boy's: whatever is on top of the laundry pile.

Re the bolded:  I honestly don't know what you're saying here  I am thoroughly confused by it.

But him thanking you for not doing things he thinks are annoying is one thing.  You turning that into you being masculine is a whole new other thing.  The first that's cool and fine - my DF would probably not enjoy spending as much time with me if I watched those programs or was "crazy" either, but he sure as heck would be insulted, emasculated and bit disgusted if I referred to myself as masculine regularly - especially if I referred to myself as masculine to his brother and his male friends.

There is a huge difference between not being a "stereotypical girly-girl" and calling yourself "masculine".  Its coming across as though you think the two ways of being are one and the same.  I described earlier why I think the usage of the specific word "masculine" in reference to yourself and the roles you play in your relationship/home life can be problematic in a romantic relationship.