Author Topic: Used It In Class Today  (Read 26918 times)

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Mental Magpie

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2012, 09:56:35 AM »
Deetee, I think Twil is replying to other posters, too, and not necessarily just you, as it was not you who said continuing to talk to me would be "engaging the crazy".

I'm glad you felt comfortable with someone who asked you to design drugs for them, but I doubt that they continued to drill you about it and accuse you of not needing something to help you. That is where it crossed the line for me. It would have been much different had he had a curious tone, but it was accusatory and snobby/holier than thou. That also greatly hanged the tone of the exchange.
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TurtleDove

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2012, 10:04:38 AM »
You assume that if the person asked says, quietly, "that's an interesting assumption," that the rudeness is on them, and I do not agree with that.

I think tone and intent comes into play here.  I got the sense (though I could be wrong) that the OP intended to be snarky with her "that's an interesting assumption."  She knew the classmate did not really assume she was dealing drugs but was simply trying to make conversation.  He didn't make any assumptions, interesting or otherwise, aside from I suppose the assumption that the OP would recognize his commentary for what it was - an attempt at small talk. 

thlayly

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2012, 10:12:51 AM »
The OP has now stated several times that her tone was not snarky, and that his was rude and accusatory.
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NyaChan

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2012, 10:22:30 AM »
I still agree with TurtleDove.  The guy wasn't actually accusing you of being a pill pusher, OP knew he wasn't making an assumption, and that is why I don't think that line was the best thing to use.  Context means a lot to me - here this is a school setting with a youngish? guy. That is a very common joke - if I pull out ibuprofen in class, I know I'll get that joke from other students & once even from a professor.  OP of course has every right to not find it funny and to respond however she chooses in order to most effectively get across that she found this sort of joke inappropriate.  If I were listening to this exchange though, I wouldn't come away thinking the guy was rude unless he was belligerent with his second comment about her not needing the medication.  If the exchange had been limited to the first 2 lines, I'd think OP was unnecessarily abrupt in shooting down this guy. 

Surianne

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2012, 10:42:46 AM »
The point of "that is an interesting assumption" is that it is NOT intended to be snarky.

If that's really the case, I think it fails spectacularly most of the time, unfortunately. 

I find it very strange that the person who makes the offensive remark in the first place is entitled to storm off raging because they were told, simply, "that's an interesting assumption". That, to me, is "the crazy" that I would be happy not to engage.

Can you clarify where you are getting the "entitled to storm off raging" bit?  I'm pretty sure most of us are just saying he's going to avoid the OP in the future, which would be a perfectly reasonable reaction to the situation and not rude in the slightest.

If it "fails so spectacularly," why is it a suggested phrase here? If it's on par with "shut up, jerk," I doubt that people like Judith Martin would recommend it.

As to the "storming off raging," I'd say proclaiming as one poster did that she would assume it meant the speaker "hated her," and other people said it meant the speaker was "crazy". You consider refusing to ever speak to the person again is pretty much storming off in a snit.

I think the others have covered it already so I'll just say I completely disagree on all points.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2012, 11:04:14 AM »
I have stated numerous times that my first comment came out because I don't k or hat else to say and that it came out more like a question. I have also stated a number of times that after he started defending his first intrusive comment with things like "You don't need those." that is where it stopped being a joke. I don't know how anyone read that I intended to e snarky after I clearly stated how my first comment came out. The second comment was said firmly, almost a no-nonsense way because I did not want him to further grill me about my medicine, which is the point of the phrase-to stop the conversation from heading in the direction it is heading (which to me would have been a grill feat of exactly why I needed them.)

An Ibuprofen bottle is very distinctively different than orange pill bottled. For all he knew I had cancer. Would that still have made his "joke" okay? Not in the least.

I can't honestly believe that in this board, members are defending the "But it was just a joke" attitude. I think there is a cognitive dissonance going on here in which people know the real etiquette but would have made a similar joke so are trying to defen their potential actions.
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TurtleDove

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2012, 11:14:18 AM »
I can't honestly believe that in this board, members are defending the "But it was just a joke" attitude. I think there is a cognitive dissonance going on here in which people know the real etiquette but would have made a similar joke so are trying to defen their potential actions.

My posts reflect what I believe to be the real etiquette.

Surianne

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #52 on: February 27, 2012, 11:20:07 AM »
I can't honestly believe that in this board, members are defending the "But it was just a joke" attitude. I think there is a cognitive dissonance going on here in which people know the real etiquette but would have made a similar joke so are trying to defen their potential actions.

My posts reflect what I believe to be the real etiquette.

Same here.

NyaChan

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2012, 11:22:28 AM »


An Ibuprofen bottle is very distinctively different than orange pill bottled. For all he knew I had cancer. Would that still have made his "joke" okay? Not in the least.



I keep mine in a plastic baggie.  Always have a minor freakout at the airport where I realize that's probably not a good idea and debate tossing it out to avoid questioning.   :)

Yvaine

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2012, 11:26:36 AM »


An Ibuprofen bottle is very distinctively different than orange pill bottled. For all he knew I had cancer. Would that still have made his "joke" okay? Not in the least.



I keep mine in a plastic baggie.  Always have a minor freakout at the airport where I realize that's probably not a good idea and debate tossing it out to avoid questioning.   :)

Back when Splenda first came out and they hadn't started selling it in the little yellow packets yet, if you wanted it, you had to buy a big box like for baking. A friend of mine is sensitive to all other sweeteners but that one. So she used to carry around a supply of Splenda...in her purse...in a little baggie. And it's a white powder, of course. She had a good laugh when she realized what it looked like!  :D

Mental Magpie

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2012, 11:31:20 AM »


An Ibuprofen bottle is very distinctively different than orange pill bottled. For all he knew I had cancer. Would that still have made his "joke" okay? Not in the least.



I keep mine in a plastic baggie.  Always have a minor freakout at the airport where I realize that's probably not a good idea and debate tossing it out to avoid questioning.   :)

Okay, that makes a little more sense.




So the real etiquette is allowing people to make offensive jokes to me and for me to not respond in a way that lets them know it isn't appropriate?  How is him saying "There's no way you need all of those!" in an accusatory tone any different than someone saying "You're too young to be using the handicapped spot!"?  It's not, at all, he's making an interesting assumption about my health.

His first comment could have been a joke, and I suspect it was; my response came out more as a question (imagine it like this, "Well...that's an..interesting assumption?").  His second comment immediately turned into a grilling tone of voice as if I was in an interrogation room, his demeanor changed from possible joking to definitely wanting to know what right I had to have my medicine in my bag (I've tried explaining it other ways, but maybe I wasn't getting it across).  How is that at all appropriate?  It's not, and I still don't see how you (a number of you, so no one specifically) can think it is.  He was saying rude and offensive things and I responded in a way that let him know to stop, which is the point of the phrase.  At what point is it okay to act like he did towards me?  It's not, it just isn't.  If only the first two things had been said (his comment, then mine) I wouldn't be posting here because nothing egregious happened.  It was the following exchange that turned the tables.
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JennJenn68

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2012, 11:50:36 AM »
I said it before, some pages back, and I'll say it again:  I simply cannot understand anyone thinking that it's okay to make comments about someone else's medication.  It was perfectly appropriate to respond, "What an interesting assumption".  Heck, it's a great deal more gracious than I would have been, given similar circumstances!

Etiquette often means not being rude to someone in return for rudeness.  DarkMagdelena handled this perfectly.  Treating a rude, baseless and totally boorish comment with friendliness and "tee-hee"ing is not etiquette; it is being a doormat.  And we have all come to recognize the importance of growing "a polite spine" on this forum.

People sometimes need a gentle reminder that their words are not appreciated or appropriate.  DarkMagdelena got that across with four words.  Frankly, I've been perplexed at some of the reactions I've read on this thread.

JoieGirl7

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #57 on: February 27, 2012, 12:59:54 PM »


So the real etiquette is allowing people to make offensive jokes to me and for me to not respond in a way that lets them know it isn't appropriate?  How is him saying "There's no way you need all of those!" in an accusatory tone any different than someone saying "You're too young to be using the handicapped spot!"?  It's not, at all, he's making an interesting assumption about my health.

His first comment could have been a joke, and I suspect it was; my response came out more as a question (imagine it like this, "Well...that's an..interesting assumption?").  His second comment immediately turned into a grilling tone of voice as if I was in an interrogation room, his demeanor changed from possible joking to definitely wanting to know what right I had to have my medicine in my bag (I've tried explaining it other ways, but maybe I wasn't getting it across).  How is that at all appropriate?  It's not, and I still don't see how you (a number of you, so no one specifically) can think it is.  He was saying rude and offensive things and I responded in a way that let him know to stop, which is the point of the phrase.  At what point is it okay to act like he did towards me?  It's not, it just isn't.  If only the first two things had been said (his comment, then mine) I wouldn't be posting here because nothing egregious happened.  It was the following exchange that turned the tables.

Still in all, your use of the phrase did nothing to shut him down.

The way you used it you were actually engaging him rather than trying to cut him off.
 
From what you wrote, I don't see how he was "grilling" you.
 
He was curious as to why you had so many pills.  His expressing that curiosity was rude but it wasn't an interrogation.
 
It's OK to say "It's none of your business" to someone if they are making you uncomfortable.  It might work better for shutting down people like rude classmates.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #58 on: February 27, 2012, 01:03:57 PM »


So the real etiquette is allowing people to make offensive jokes to me and for me to not respond in a way that lets them know it isn't appropriate?  How is him saying "There's no way you need all of those!" in an accusatory tone any different than someone saying "You're too young to be using the handicapped spot!"?  It's not, at all, he's making an interesting assumption about my health.

His first comment could have been a joke, and I suspect it was; my response came out more as a question (imagine it like this, "Well...that's an..interesting assumption?").  His second comment immediately turned into a grilling tone of voice as if I was in an interrogation room, his demeanor changed from possible joking to definitely wanting to know what right I had to have my medicine in my bag (I've tried explaining it other ways, but maybe I wasn't getting it across).  How is that at all appropriate?  It's not, and I still don't see how you (a number of you, so no one specifically) can think it is.  He was saying rude and offensive things and I responded in a way that let him know to stop, which is the point of the phrase.  At what point is it okay to act like he did towards me?  It's not, it just isn't.  If only the first two things had been said (his comment, then mine) I wouldn't be posting here because nothing egregious happened.  It was the following exchange that turned the tables.

Still in all, your use of the phrase did nothing to shut him down.

The way you used it you were actually engaging him rather than trying to cut him off.
 
From what you wrote, I don't see how he was "grilling" you.
 
He was curious as to why you had so many pills.  His expressing that curiosity was rude but it wasn't an interrogation.
 
It's OK to say "It's none of your business" to someone if they are making you uncomfortable.  It might work better for shutting down people like rude classmates.

The first one didn't, but the second one surely did, and I'm certain it was my tone of voice (the first one was more like a question).

He was not curious, his tone of voice did not convey that at all.  He was grilling me in his tone of voice.  "Well why do you have all of those pills?...There's no way you need all of those!"  It was not disbelief in his voice, it was accusatory as in "There's no way you need all of those, you're lying, you liar!"

I've tried to convey a number of times that had he been curious even with just his first question, I probably would have answered it honestly; but his  actions were anything but curious and those sorts of questions I will not answer.
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

Deetee

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Re: Used It In Class Today
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2012, 01:38:17 PM »
Do you, then, never make a mistake and make a joke that, though innocent to you, may annoy or hurt someone else? Because if I made a joke, and got the "interesting assumption" comment, my thought would be, "Oh, I put a foot wrong there. Better apologize, and move on." Not "Wow, that person HATES me, and is probably crazy. I'd better never speak to her again."

Even with the best of intentions, people make mistakes in humour*, but getting offended because people react to those mistakes in a mildly negative way strikes me as blaming the victim.

*For example, if your friend repeatedly asks strangers for designer drugs, they may one day ask a recovering addict, or someone who recently lost a friend to an overdose, or someone who is on probation for a drug offence and hopes no one knows. That's part of the risk with making those sorts of jokes with people you don't know. You assume that if the person asked says, quietly, "that's an interesting assumption," that the rudeness is on them, and I do not agree with that.

I have clarified my position already and I reread it and think it is quite clear and context specific. I have nothing more to add at this point.