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Author Topic: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread  (Read 38685 times)

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Hollanda

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2012, 10:06:56 AM »
Sometimes the OP just gets so frustrated by what is happening (or what they perceive as happening) that they just don't have the energy to type a huge long response.....IDK.

I think I'll cut to the chase here. I have messed up big style....and I want to apologise for the way I have come across on these boards. I know some of you just don't like me, that's evident in the way you respond to some of my posts. Some of you want to like me, I guess, but just don't know how to help me. Either way, it doesn't matter. I've decided over the past few months that yes, I do need a bit of help with myself, and no, it's not that big a deal. So I've started counselling. I'm starting to see that sometimes I am downright defensive for no real reason. Maybe paranoia, maybe an inflated sense of my own importance. Whatever the reason, I have been a complete prat. But I'm not a troll.

Back on topic, maybe the OP has a right, or no right, to feel upset by the comments to their posts. But I know from experience that feelings are just those - feelings. Sometimes we know we're being unreasonable or defensive, that's why Scritzy's Coke rule (occasionally in my case just a coffee rule lol) works so well. It gives us chance to go away, think things over and go back. Me? I'm following that rule. Right now.

Thank you all...especially those of you who have shown me "tough love" over the past few months - I've needed it.

That was very brave. I'm not enough of an avid reader to know exactly what you are referring to, but it takes a rare kind of person to look at themselves that objectively.

My biggest tendency was pointed out earlier in this thread. I tend to get defensive and then backtrack myself, giving more details, until I know I look more in the right. I've had this tendency years and I am determined to stop it now.  It confuses the situation and people don't know what to believe.  :( I like these boards and do not want to mess things up any further!
Knowledge is knowing tomato is a fruit.
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SiotehCat

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2012, 10:50:30 AM »
Sometimes I think that some of the responses I get are based on people's personal opinions of me.

I am more likely to respond to a post when my opinion differs. When my opinion is the same, then a dozen other people have probably said it better than I ever could. Because of that, I think some people view me as this crazy weirdo. Maybe I am, I dunno.

I don't get mad when people disagree with me or pick my posts apart, because I try to remind myself that it's not that serious. I like to hear different opinions and I wouldn't post if I didn't.


CakeBeret

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2012, 12:07:48 PM »
In real life "dogpiling" is when someone is tackled and a bunch of other people jump on top.  I've usually seen the term used essentially the same way in other online forums I've frequented.  I do see it at Etiquette Hell from time to time, someone will point out where an OP has made an error in judgement or action (the tackle) and then page after page after page of, essentially, "me too" posts (the dogpile).  Not that anyone expects only one person can discuss it, but after a while, particularly if the OP doesn't disagree or argue the point, yet another person coming in to agree with the tackle is kind of unnecessary unless they're adding something new to the discussion.  Traditionally it is considered bad netiquette.

I've also seen dogpiling where the OP is a newbie and asks a question, and then there are 5 pages of responses telling her she's wrong, in harsher and harsher terms.

For example:

First Time Poster: Today I rubbed my pregnant friend's belly, and she went off on me, screaming and cursing! How rude was she? How rude was I?

Page 1-2: She was incredibly rude, wow. But you shouldn't have touched her without asking first.

Page 2-3: You were pretty rude to touch her without asking.

Page 3: It's incredibly rude to touch someone without their permission. Shame on you!

Page 4: Touching a pregnant belly without permission is pretty unforgivable. I would probably never speak to you again.

Page 5:  I would have pressed charges against you for assault. Nobody touches me without permission.

The poster will probably read pages 1-2 and realize that they were wrong to touch the pregnant friend's belly. By page 3, she's probably feeling something like "I was wrong, I know, but this is getting a little harsh." By pages 4-5 she probably has no desire to ever return to the forum again.
"From a procrastination standpoint, today has been wildly successful."

Allyson

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2012, 12:16:28 PM »
I'm not going to not reply, if I feel strongly about something, just because others feel the same way. But I will try really hard to add something, and not just 'me too'. There are some topics that are 'hot buttons' and with them, I get a  'have to say something' that I try to curb.

Sometimes, though, I think it can actually be useful and instructive when nearly everyone disagrees politely. Say I make a post and say 'was I overreacting, or was this a real slight/offense?' If almost everyone answers with 'yes, I think you're overreacting, I wouldn't be bothered at all' and 'I've done when that Offender has done and this is what I meant...' then that says something. Not that I'm wrong to be offended, but that it's more likely that the offender was not behaving cruelly on purpose, and that perhaps I shouldn't fire off that cold reply and say 'Please do not associate with me again'.

Sometimes I think posters can be a bit too quick to advise dropping someone out of their life 'dump him!' 'cut off your MIL' 'never invite that friend anywhere again' which makes sense, because they're only getting one part of the story. I'm more likely to reply in those threads to disagree because I've done/said things that, according to some threads here, should get me cut off by a friend without explanation.

So I think I'm more likely to post when I disagree, but I won't not post just because others feel the same as me, either. Also, what to one person can be dogpiling to another might just be everyone expressing an opinion, which happens to be similar. I do think there should be more said than 'everyone else is right, you were rude' by page 3, though.

I've also seen OPs get mad if say, 30 percent of the replies disagree, even though many many others agree. I'm not sure if they want everyone to agree with them, or if they just are more 'aware' of the posts that are against them so it looks like a bigger percentage.

DuBois

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2012, 12:36:23 PM »
I'm not going to not reply, if I feel strongly about something, just because others feel the same way. But I will try really hard to add something, and not just 'me too'. There are some topics that are 'hot buttons' and with them, I get a  'have to say something' that I try to curb.

Sometimes, though, I think it can actually be useful and instructive when nearly everyone disagrees politely. Say I make a post and say 'was I overreacting, or was this a real slight/offense?' If almost everyone answers with 'yes, I think you're overreacting, I wouldn't be bothered at all' and 'I've done when that Offender has done and this is what I meant...' then that says something. Not that I'm wrong to be offended, but that it's more likely that the offender was not behaving cruelly on purpose, and that perhaps I shouldn't fire off that cold reply and say 'Please do not associate with me again'.

Sometimes I think posters can be a bit too quick to advise dropping someone out of their life 'dump him!' 'cut off your MIL' 'never invite that friend anywhere again' which makes sense, because they're only getting one part of the story. I'm more likely to reply in those threads to disagree because I've done/said things that, according to some threads here, should get me cut off by a friend without explanation.

So I think I'm more likely to post when I disagree, but I won't not post just because others feel the same as me, either. Also, what to one person can be dogpiling to another might just be everyone expressing an opinion, which happens to be similar. I do think there should be more said than 'everyone else is right, you were rude' by page 3, though.

I've also seen OPs get mad if say, 30 percent of the replies disagree, even though many many others agree. I'm not sure if they want everyone to agree with them, or if they just are more 'aware' of the posts that are against them so it looks like a bigger percentage.

I think that a possible reason for the bolded is if posters who disagree with the OP are in a minority, they tend to express themselves more strongly than if it is just a 'me too' situation. I actually think that when many people disagree with the OP, the responses can get gentler a couple of pages in, just so that it doesn't seem like dopgpiling.(this doesn't always happen, but I have seen it) But sometimes if the naysayers are in a minority, they are more strident, and that is what I think gets the OP's back up. I know that I can be quite strident on the topic of weddings, just because I'm ususally a minority opinion (basically, I don't think that anything short of starving your guets is rude. If and when I get married, I shall have a cash bar, have 'no children' written clearly on the invitations, and put registry info in the wedding invitations. I just won't post about it here ;) )

But I digress: my real point is that if someone feels in a minority, they are likely to express themselves (too) strongly.

MacadamiaNut

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2012, 04:03:32 PM »
In real life "dogpiling" is when someone is tackled and a bunch of other people jump on top.  I've usually seen the term used essentially the same way in other online forums I've frequented.  I do see it at Etiquette Hell from time to time, someone will point out where an OP has made an error in judgement or action (the tackle) and then page after page after page of, essentially, "me too" posts (the dogpile).  Not that anyone expects only one person can discuss it, but after a while, particularly if the OP doesn't disagree or argue the point, yet another person coming in to agree with the tackle is kind of unnecessary unless they're adding something new to the discussion.  Traditionally it is considered bad netiquette.

Yeah,  I agree with this. After a while, the 'me too' posts get old. Another thing that sometimes bugs me is when people press the OP to reply, and say 'where's the OP?' and people say that several times over. Perhaps the OP is away from their computer, or just doesn't have the energy to type out a long reply. Sometimes, I get the impression that people feel that they are owed validation from an OP. But, just as an OP is not owed validation, neither is any other poster in a thread.

the bolded is actually one of the thing that irritates me the most in contentious threads.  i think sometimes we forget here that we have members, literally, from around the world here.  the questioner might think the OP "owes" them clarification immediately.  however, with our global membership, the OP may very well be asleep.  continuing to request clarification really doesn't add to the discussion. 

i'm a huge fan of clicking on various posters names before posting.  it enables me to see when the poster last logged in, which might give a hint as to why the OP isn't replying right at that moment. when i see someone hasn't logged in for a long period of time, say 5 or 6 hours, that tells me that poster may be on another continent and is sleeping, or might be at work and unable to log in.  i can also check the OP's posts there, so i get all of the information they have added.  that's especially helpful when threads go to multiple pages.  it's so easy to miss an update if it's not added to the title of the thread.

You're right in that the poster's home page might give you hints.  If you clicked on me, I'd be the case where it won't provide much insight at all since sometimes I am logged on forever but not actually actively looking at the forum.  For someone like me, the better indicator might be the last post I made and what time that was, although that's not 100% foolproof either since there may be responses that require more thought, therefore I may reply to other things on the forum and wait until I have the time to think things through on the larger piece. 

I do make it a point to reply in good faith to all things addressed to me here and I think almost all the posters here do a very good job of that from what I can see.  If someone doesn't reply, I assume there is a good reason and move on, if I even notice at all, that is.  :)
Paperweights, for instance - has anyone ever established what, when, and why
paper has to be weighed down? ::) ~Don Aslett

still in va

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #66 on: March 29, 2012, 05:03:27 PM »
the bolded is actually one of the thing that irritates me the most in contentious threads.  i think sometimes we forget here that we have members, literally, from around the world here.  the questioner might think the OP "owes" them clarification immediately.  however, with our global membership, the OP may very well be asleep.  continuing to request clarification really doesn't add to the discussion. 

i'm a huge fan of clicking on various posters names before posting.  it enables me to see when the poster last logged in, which might give a hint as to why the OP isn't replying right at that moment. when i see someone hasn't logged in for a long period of time, say 5 or 6 hours, that tells me that poster may be on another continent and is sleeping, or might be at work and unable to log in.  i can also check the OP's posts there, so i get all of the information they have added.  that's especially helpful when threads go to multiple pages.  it's so easy to miss an update if it's not added to the title of the thread.
You're right in that the poster's home page might give you hints.  If you clicked on me, I'd be the case where it won't provide much insight at all since sometimes I am logged on forever but not actually actively looking at the forum.  For someone like me, the better indicator might be the last post I made and what time that was, although that's not 100% foolproof either since there may be responses that require more thought, therefore I may reply to other things on the forum and wait until I have the time to think things through on the larger piece. 

I do make it a point to reply in good faith to all things addressed to me here and I think almost all the posters here do a very good job of that from what I can see.  If someone doesn't reply, I assume there is a good reason and move on, if I even notice at all, that is.  :)


snipped so this won't get too long!

i'm like you, i'm always logged in.  i've often wondered if the board still counts me as logged in when i've closed the tab and gone on my merry way?  and as you say, i also look at when their last post was made.

as to the bolded, i feel the same way you do.  this is a fun place to hang out.  it is not a mainstay in life.  other things need to be tended to.  i was referring to posters who continually request the OP explain this or expand on that.  and then decide that since the OP hasn't returned in what they consider a timely fashion to explain or expand, the OP must not be totally truthful.

MacadamiaNut

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2012, 05:38:52 PM »
the bolded is actually one of the thing that irritates me the most in contentious threads.  i think sometimes we forget here that we have members, literally, from around the world here.  the questioner might think the OP "owes" them clarification immediately.  however, with our global membership, the OP may very well be asleep.  continuing to request clarification really doesn't add to the discussion. 

i'm a huge fan of clicking on various posters names before posting.  it enables me to see when the poster last logged in, which might give a hint as to why the OP isn't replying right at that moment. when i see someone hasn't logged in for a long period of time, say 5 or 6 hours, that tells me that poster may be on another continent and is sleeping, or might be at work and unable to log in.  i can also check the OP's posts there, so i get all of the information they have added.  that's especially helpful when threads go to multiple pages.  it's so easy to miss an update if it's not added to the title of the thread.
You're right in that the poster's home page might give you hints.  If you clicked on me, I'd be the case where it won't provide much insight at all since sometimes I am logged on forever but not actually actively looking at the forum.  For someone like me, the better indicator might be the last post I made and what time that was, although that's not 100% foolproof either since there may be responses that require more thought, therefore I may reply to other things on the forum and wait until I have the time to think things through on the larger piece. 

I do make it a point to reply in good faith to all things addressed to me here and I think almost all the posters here do a very good job of that from what I can see.  If someone doesn't reply, I assume there is a good reason and move on, if I even notice at all, that is.  :)


snipped so this won't get too long!

i'm like you, i'm always logged in.  i've often wondered if the board still counts me as logged in when i've closed the tab and gone on my merry way?  and as you say, i also look at when their last post was made.

as to the bolded, i feel the same way you do.  this is a fun place to hang out.  it is not a mainstay in life.  other things need to be tended to.  i was referring to posters who continually request the OP explain this or expand on that.  and then decide that since the OP hasn't returned in what they consider a timely fashion to explain or expand, the OP must not be totally truthful.

Oh, I see.  Well, if they want to think that, I guess that's their prerogative.  I agree, it's a fun place to hang out.  If a thread ends, it ends.  There's plenty of others to peruse!  :)
Paperweights, for instance - has anyone ever established what, when, and why
paper has to be weighed down? ::) ~Don Aslett

lmyrs

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2012, 01:59:22 PM »
A mod (sorry, it's been ages, so I no longer remember who) once gave me these two definitions of dogpiling:

1) Continuing to badger on after a mod has stepped in and told off the offending poster.

2) Continuing to badger on after an offending poster has admitted to being wrong/rude/whatever.

Makes sense to me :)

I agree with this definition.  It's when people are continuing to "drive a point home" when it's no longer necessary to do so. The conversation should move past whatever the point of contention was (whether people were trying to persuade the OP about something, or all disagreeing on a point) if there's apology/acknowledgement/clarification/moderator action etc.  That's also why it's important to read the thread.  I've often seen something in a post that I've found offensive/rude/wrong and of course my immediate reaction is that I want to reply straight away.  However, once I read through the remainder of the thread I find that it was later retracted or clarified in some way, in which case it's really not appropriate for me as a new participant in the conversation to start complaining about it again and rehashing the debate.  That drags the whole thread down into the mud again instead of adding productive dialogue.   It's not necessarily the OP either, sometimes people can dogpile on another poster if they say something rude etc. It's fine to respond, but if they apologise and acknowledge their mistake then we should move on.    But if it's multiple posters simply agreeing with one another and saying the same thing, that's not dogpiling.

Regarding the bolded, that's why I think it's a real problem that there isn't a rule here to read the whole thread. On the only other message board I've ever participated in, there's a read the thread rule. Their logic is, essentially, what makes you think that anything you have to say is so much more insightful or important than what anyone else has to say? Because, why should you expect others to read your posts while not offering them the same courtesy?

I understand that there is not rule like that here and I've accepted that. But, after a while you get a feel for who makes a habit of not reading before posting and I give those posts a lot less credibility because they're making judgements based on only part of the information or perspective.

Hollanda

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2012, 02:28:37 PM »
Ok how about this one:

What about when someone posts a thread and people just pick on one element of the post, completely missing the point of the post and making it into something it's not? And then other posters tag on why they think x, y or z was rude or wrong.

Yes, this just happened to me. No, I'm not upset or feeling at all victimised by it, especially since I actually agree as to why it was thought that my action was rude. Fair enough. But even when I had admitted my error and tried to explain a little bit more as to why I did it (just to make absolute sure that people realised it was not a random act of rudeness, more like a complete lack of thought on my part), the negativity just kept on coming.  I decided simply that I had explained enough and didn't respond any further, as I knew I would end up frustrated and defensive.

Maybe sometimes the OP has a just and valid reason for feeling upset by the comments in the thread. I'm not saying in any way that I have been bullied, and this is not a goodbye cruel forum post, more like an attempt to get a bit of balance in this. Sometimes, we just don't realise how our actions are perceived by outsiders until someone gives us a shake and says "Woah, you did what? And you cannot understand why someone was rude to you?" After that shake has been given, what then? Is it really necessary, when that person has facepalmed themselves and said "I don't know what I was thinking! I did it because...x, y, z and I know not to do it again", is it really necessary to keep going on and on and on that the original action was rude, and making the OP feel as though she has committed some major faux pas when in all reality it was nothing but an unfortunate set of circumstances? There is giving someone fruitful, helpful advice and there is kicking a dog when it's already down.

Everyone is obviously free to disagree, I am only commenting on things I have seen here. Both to my threads and other people's.
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Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.


Moray

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2012, 03:36:20 PM »
Hollanda, I'm glad this isn't a "goodbye cruel forum" post, since I find those pretty childish.

Something that I frequently see happening with your threads is that you'll post a scenario in which you could have handled things better and then get frustrated when the thread doesn't go like you wanted. You frequently follow up your OP with several long, drawn-out explanations of how you're still learning or how you get that you were wrong or whathaveyou. It's almost as if you expect everyone to just say "Ok, well it looks like the OP doesn't actually want feedback. I'll just give her a pat on the back instead.", but this site doesn't work like that. It's not that it's veering off-topic, just that people are responding to the thread you started. You cannot control the direction of a thread and frankly, when you've posted in the On-Topic area of the board, it's really frustrating to watch you try again and again to excuse or explain your behavior to those who don't agree. We have the off-topic folders if you need hugs/validation/etc., but if you post in Life in General or the like, expect to receive a response, just like anyone else.

I know you mentioned that you were trying to be more introspective; it might be worth examining why you feel such a compunction to convince random strangers on the internet that you were right or justified in your actions.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 04:05:50 PM by VorpalBunny »
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Hollanda

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2012, 03:38:20 PM »
Hollanda, I'm glad this isn't a "goodbye cruel forum" post, since I find those pretty childish.

Something that I frequently see happening with your threads is that you'll post a scenario in which you could have handled things better and then get frustrated when the thread doesn't go like you wanted. You frequently follow up your OP with several long, drawn-out explanations of how you're still learning or how you get that you were wrong or whathaveyou. It's almost as if you expect everyone to just say "Ok, well it looks like the OP doesn't actually want feedback. I'll just give her a pat on the back instead.", but this site doesn't work like that. It's not that it's veering off-topic, just that people are responding to the thread you started. You cannot control the direction of a thread and frankly, when you've posted in the On-Topic area of the board, it's really frustrating to watch you try again and again to excuse or explain your behavior to those who don't agree. We have the off-topic folders if you need hugs/validation/etc., but if you post in Life in General or the like, expect to receive a response, just like anyone else.

I know you mentioned that you were trying to be more introspective; it might be worth examining why you feel such a compunction to make random strangers on the internet that you were right or justified in your actions.

I see.
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Bibliophile

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2012, 03:46:19 PM »
Ok how about this one:

What about when someone posts a thread and people just pick on one element of the post, completely missing the point of the post and making it into something it's not? And then other posters tag on why they think x, y or z was rude or wrong.

What was the something it was not?  It looked to me like the posters were trying to make the post into a thread about the etiquette of the issue.  If it was just to post about a bad day/rant, those go into the hugs folder, or get locked for being a rant.  You can always move the post into the hugs folder if you mispost it to the wrong section.

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Ceallach

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #73 on: April 03, 2012, 04:57:08 PM »
The OP does not get to "control" the direction their thread takes.  If people aren't discussing the etiquette involved, going off-topic, or are being inappropriate/rude then obviously that's wrong, but as long as the discussion is on-topic and appropriate for the forum then it's not up to the OP to dictate the nature of the responses to the actual etiquette issues presented.  There are many topics I do not post at eHell for that exact reason - I know it won't lead to a productive conversation that will satisfy me.   The OP is not the owner of the thread, just the instigator.
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Bijou

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Re: When the OP gets upset by the comments in their thread
« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2012, 05:17:58 PM »
I think threads that drift after a few pages are fine. I mean there is only so much to be said about cleaning red wine stains before people get repetative.

I don't see a problem with polite dog-piling in situation where the OP really appears to be either in the wrong, or at least not considering all the angles. We have a need a hug folder when people want support rather then feedback, so I don't see any reason to be too much on the softly softly side otherwise.

I tend to ditch a thread if the OP comes back with ever-changing background. Even if I thought it was all true, the fact that it wasn't part of the opening post leads me to think that it wasn't really a factor for the OP to begin with.

I've always wondered if there's an official meaning for the term 'dogpiling'.  Sometimes posters will accuse others of dogpiling when it doesn't seem to fit my personal definition of the word.  Is dogpiling just when a bunch of posters voice their disagreement, or is it when it's done in a nasty way?
To me it is ganging up on someone to express the same opinion as expressed by several posters before you.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 05:26:12 PM by Bijou »
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