The Etiquette of the Childfree

[snowdragon]

Parents do not expect your childfree friends and family to spend their holiday/party time babysitting your kids for you, because you :have them all the time" while it might be nice of them to spend time with younger relatives or the children of friends, their function at these things is NOT of babysitter. They did not have or bring the child, it's not their responsibility to spend the day caring for it.
 
Also do not let your  child go through the purses and bags of others...it does not matter if these things are left on the floor or whatnot, just because they are in view of your kid that does not turn them it into your child's playthings. No a woman does not have to stop carrying personal things such as medicine or other things that would fall under "personal", because you don't want to teach them to respect other's property.


can you tell these were issues at the Graduation party

[snowdragon]

Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.
You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

 Why should a childfree person be planning and hosting things with kids in mind.  While it may be easier for the parent, it's not the kids that a childfree person is friends with. I would feel really weird about hosting or being hosted by kids.
  I really think this is one of those things that can not be reciprocal. Part of good etiquette is reciprocity and when one person  is expected to do(spend, plan, change activities based on a third parties needs) much more in order to be "nice" in a relationship...it can cause resentment on the part of the one expected to change.  That childfree person is often having to accommodate the parent in many way already, even if it's taken for granted that the parent's life will change, so does the childfree person's social life change if they are going to remain friends. The expectation that they have to host the parent's child in order to be considered "nice" is a bit much...the converse of that is if you don't you're not "nice".
  Also - many people have their homes as childfree,,,so now they have to change that because it's easier for the parent to have some events hosted at the childfree person's home be ok for the kiddos? Or the childfree person is not "nice" - as a childfree person, I would resent the expectation. Luckily for me,, my parent friends are the type that like having my place be the place they come to have a childfree evening "out" with out spending a ton of money at a bar.
   

[hobish]

Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.
You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

I don't think so. Please show me where etiquette states i should open my home to children just because i can.
I have, in fact, hosted kids; i just disagree that a body should, just because they are able. I am *able* to do lots of things; etiquette does not dictate that means i *ought*. I really really really disagree with this.

[snowdragon]

Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.
You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

I don't think so. Please show me where etiquette states i should open my home to children just because i can.
I have, in fact, hosted kids; i just disagree that a body should, just because they are able. I am *able* to do lots of things; etiquette does not dictate that means i *ought*. I really really really disagree with this.

yeah, I was trying to disagree too.. but  I hit post too early by mistake

[Diane AKA Traska]

Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.
You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

I don't think so. Please show me where etiquette states i should open my home to children just because i can.
I have, in fact, hosted kids; i just disagree that a body should, just because they are able. I am *able* to do lots of things; etiquette does not dictate that means i *ought*. I really really really disagree with this.

yeah, I was trying to disagree too.. but  I hit post too early by mistake

Not to dogpile on, but.... yeah.  I have cats, I have expensive electronics, I have done no childproofing of my home.  I don't hate kids, but I'm not modifying my lifestyle for anyone else's either.

[camlan]

Nuit93 said that it was *nice* if you could host events that included children. Not that etiquette requires that you host children. And only if you were able to. Clearly, if your house isn't child-safe, hosting children is not a good idea.

You can have a sit-down formal dinner with just adults, or you can have a back-yard BBQ where the kids can run around without worrying about breaking things. Some small children love being invited to luncheon or a tea party and dressing up in their Sunday best and putting on their party manners and sipping lemonade while sitting still and in some cases, being better guests than some of the adults present. And others couldn't do that no matter how hard they try.

Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone you don't want to. But there's a difference between being polite and being nice. Nice is giving your neighbor a ride when you don't really want to. Etiquette is saying "no" to such requests politely, not rudely. Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone at all. Nice says that sometimes, if it is possible for you, including children might be a nice thing to do.

[snowdragon]

Nuit93 said that it was *nice* if you could host events that included children. Not that etiquette requires that you host children. And only if you were able to. Clearly, if your house isn't child-safe, hosting children is not a good idea.

You can have a sit-down formal dinner with just adults, or you can have a back-yard BBQ where the kids can run around without worrying about breaking things. Some small children love being invited to luncheon or a tea party and dressing up in their Sunday best and putting on their party manners and sipping lemonade while sitting still and in some cases, being better guests than some of the adults present. And others couldn't do that no matter how hard they try.

Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone you don't want to. But there's a difference between being polite and being nice. Nice is giving your neighbor a ride when you don't really want to. Etiquette is saying "no" to such requests politely, not rudely. Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone at all. Nice says that sometimes, if it is possible for you, including children might be a nice thing to do.

            and the implication still is that if you don't you're not "nice". 

[camlan]

Nuit93 said that it was *nice* if you could host events that included children. Not that etiquette requires that you host children. And only if you were able to. Clearly, if your house isn't child-safe, hosting children is not a good idea.

You can have a sit-down formal dinner with just adults, or you can have a back-yard BBQ where the kids can run around without worrying about breaking things. Some small children love being invited to luncheon or a tea party and dressing up in their Sunday best and putting on their party manners and sipping lemonade while sitting still and in some cases, being better guests than some of the adults present. And others couldn't do that no matter how hard they try.

Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone you don't want to. But there's a difference between being polite and being nice. Nice is giving your neighbor a ride when you don't really want to. Etiquette is saying "no" to such requests politely, not rudely. Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone at all. Nice says that sometimes, if it is possible for you, including children might be a nice thing to do.

            and the implication still is that if you don't you're not "nice".

I guess we read that sentence in different ways. I didn't see it as saying you were "not nice" if you didn't host kids. Just that if you could, it would be a nice thing to do. I didn't see your interpretation at all. Now I do.

I guess I saw it this way. My house is not wheel-chair accessible. Therefore, I don't invite my brother's family here, because my nephew can't get his wheelchair inside. Instead, I go to see them. In the same way, if your house isn't child-proof, you don't invite children because it isn't safe.

[veryfluffy]

This is, of course, not a sunshine-and-lollipops board. It is an etiquette board. So I'm not sure where discussions of what is nice or not nice are entirely relevant. There are all sorts of things that it would be "nice" for parents to do, or "nice" for the childfree to do -- but this doesn't have much place when discussing the etiquette on this topic.

Etiquette would say that IF you invite children, then you must make an effort to host them properly. It doesn't say you must invite them.

[Corvid]

Parents, please don't assume that because I don't have children of my own that I "don't have a family" and therefore should be perfectly happy to work all the holidays.  I have a beloved husband and come from quite a large family.  Sometimes they like to see me on holidays.  Even if I didn't have anyone else in my life, I am just as entitled to my share of holidays off as are you.

For some of my fellow childfree...by all ever considered holy by any of humankind, please stop whining.  Legitimate complaints are one thing, but honestly, sniveling about how a child crossed your path at Chuckie Cheese or that a pregnant woman dared appear in public before you when you walked by the local mall's maternity shop starts veering into the realm of idiocy.

And that's not as much hyperbole as you folks might think.

[nuit93]

Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.
You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

 Why should a childfree person be planning and hosting things with kids in mind.  While it may be easier for the parent, it's not the kids that a childfree person is friends with. I would feel really weird about hosting or being hosted by kids.
  I really think this is one of those things that can not be reciprocal. Part of good etiquette is reciprocity and when one person  is expected to do(spend, plan, change activities based on a third parties needs) much more in order to be "nice" in a relationship...it can cause resentment on the part of the one expected to change.  That childfree person is often having to accommodate the parent in many way already, even if it's taken for granted that the parent's life will change, so does the childfree person's social life change if they are going to remain friends. The expectation that they have to host the parent's child in order to be considered "nice" is a bit much...the converse of that is if you don't you're not "nice".
  Also - many people have their homes as childfree,,,so now they have to change that because it's easier for the parent to have some events hosted at the childfree person's home be ok for the kiddos? Or the childfree person is not "nice" - as a childfree person, I would resent the expectation. Luckily for me,, my parent friends are the type that like having my place be the place they come to have a childfree evening "out" with out spending a ton of money at a bar.
 

I was speaking as a CF person myself, so perhaps "nice" wasn't the best choice of words.  It's been my experience that some people won't go ANYWHERE without their kids, so if people want to socialize with them they need to invite the children as well.  But there are also plenty of reasons to not allow children in one's home (breakable stuff within reach, animals that aren't kid-friendly, etc.).

I'm not a huge kid person, but if I wanted to spend time with someone and the only way they could come over was with their kid I'm willing to be a bit flexible.  I don't think it's something that is required though.

[snowdragon]

Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.
You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

 Why should a childfree person be planning and hosting things with kids in mind.  While it may be easier for the parent, it's not the kids that a childfree person is friends with. I would feel really weird about hosting or being hosted by kids.
  I really think this is one of those things that can not be reciprocal. Part of good etiquette is reciprocity and when one person  is expected to do(spend, plan, change activities based on a third parties needs) much more in order to be "nice" in a relationship...it can cause resentment on the part of the one expected to change.  That childfree person is often having to accommodate the parent in many way already, even if it's taken for granted that the parent's life will change, so does the childfree person's social life change if they are going to remain friends. The expectation that they have to host the parent's child in order to be considered "nice" is a bit much...the converse of that is if you don't you're not "nice".
  Also - many people have their homes as childfree,,,so now they have to change that because it's easier for the parent to have some events hosted at the childfree person's home be ok for the kiddos? Or the childfree person is not "nice" - as a childfree person, I would resent the expectation. Luckily for me,, my parent friends are the type that like having my place be the place they come to have a childfree evening "out" with out spending a ton of money at a bar.
 

I was speaking as a CF person myself, so perhaps "nice" wasn't the best choice of words.  It's been my experience that some people won't go ANYWHERE without their kids, so if people want to socialize with them they need to invite the children as well.  But there are also plenty of reasons to not allow children in one's home (breakable stuff within reach, animals that aren't kid-friendly, etc.).

I'm not a huge kid person, but if I wanted to spend time with someone and the only way they could come over was with their kid I'm willing to be a bit flexible.  I don't think it's something that is required though.

   I would tell them what I wanted to do - and let them counter offer. But I would not be inviting them to my house if they can't be with out the kids.

[Piratelvr1121]

Parents, please don't assume that because I don't have children of my own that I "don't have a family" and therefore should be perfectly happy to work all the holidays.  I have a beloved husband and come from quite a large family.  Sometimes they like to see me on holidays.  Even if I didn't have anyone else in my life, I am just as entitled to my share of holidays off as are you.

For some of my fellow childfree...by all ever considered holy by any of humankind, please stop whining.  Legitimate complaints are one thing, but honestly, sniveling about how a child crossed your path at Chuckie Cheese or that a pregnant woman dared appear in public before you when you walked by the local mall's maternity shop starts veering into the realm of idiocy.

And that's not as much hyperbole as you folks might think.

My best friend has complained about the bolded in the past, always being expected to cover shifts for those with family because she's single and doesn't have kids.  She still has a family in her sister and niece, as well as her sister's in laws. 

[POF]

( I am a parent )

For Parents, ( especially my niece ... I am looking at you ). Do not assume that anyone else wants to spend the holiday dinner entertaining your toddler. Seriously, I did that whem my 2 were little, DH and I took turns eating, etc.  Do not pss them off to me or to anyone else. Do not ignore them screaming / crying and stick them in a playpen.  If someone offers to give you a break, fine ... but don't foist them off on other people. 

For Childfree ( more pertinent when the kids were little ): I am a working parent, DH works opposite shifts with me. Our free time is limited.  I will most likely decline invitations where I need a sitter or where it takes up a lot of time on the weekend. I understand that you want to host and have childfree events. Thats great, just remember that I will choose not to attend a lot of these and don't give me a hard time about it. Its your right to have something childfree every weekend, its my right to say  no. 

[GreenEyedHawk]

Getting down to cases:

To the lady with the your girl on the bus yesterday morning:  There are plenty of free seats where you and your child can sit together.  Snottily telling me (not asking, telling) me that I need to move out of my seat because your child "likes that one best" is going to garner absolutely no reaction from me.  If there were no other free seats, I'd give you mine as a child standing on a moving bus is unsteady and likely to fall and that's a safety thing.  But when the bus is barely half full?  Pick any of the other seats.  I was here first.  If our roles were reversed and I told you you had to move because I like your seat best, you'd laugh me off the bus, and you'd be justified in doing so.

However, that being said, I also think it's extremely discourteous to not move seats for a small child if there are no free seats; that's down to a safety issue and I'm amazed at how often I see it.  I've given up my seat for a small child the same way as I've given up my seat for someone elderly/disabled....they cannot easily stand on a moving bus.  I can.  Seeing a little kid off-balance with the lurching bus makes me wince every time.