The Etiquette of the Childfree

[camlan]

However, that being said, I also think it's extremely discourteous to not move seats for a small child if there are no free seats; that's down to a safety issue and I'm amazed at how often I see it.  I've given up my seat for a small child the same way as I've given up my seat for someone elderly/disabled....they cannot easily stand on a moving bus.  I can.  Seeing a little kid off-balance with the lurching bus makes me wince every time.

This is a good point. I know sometimes people feel that adults have a greater right to sit down than children do. But when a small child can't reach any of the handholds on a bus or trolley, it is much safer for them to sit down.

[starbuck]

Great thread!

Parents: please don't act like you are the only busy people in the world. I know plenty of crazed parents. I know plenty who have large amounts of time to pursue their own interests. I know plenty of childfree people who are buried, I know plenty who have mounds of free time. It totally depends on the individuals and their life circumstances and it's insulting and silly to make comments like "well when I was like you and had plenty of time to go out partying and the sleep all day..." I don't know one childfree person whose life rolls like that. Most of us work and have other obligations.

Parents: please please please stop letting your children run wild in public. Yes children can be loud and rambunctious but it's your job to teach them when it's OK to be loud and rambunctious and to teach them how to exercise self-control. Public space does not translate into "children's needs wants and desires come first, always, so if they want to run and shout, they can." So stop with the "but that's what kids do!" attitude and take things in hand.

Childfree: stop calling parents and kids ugly names like "moos" and "duhs." It's low-rent and tacky and makes you and the rest of us look silly and childish. There are plenty of great parents out there, BTW.

Childfree: Don't move in next to a playground and school yard and the moan about the noise. Yes, I agree, kids today seem to be louder and screechier than we were allowed to be but honestly? Schoolyards and playgrounds have never in history been quiet places. These are the places kids are supposed to be blowing off steam. Let them. 

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

[snowdragon]

Getting down to cases:

To the lady with the your girl on the bus yesterday morning:  There are plenty of free seats where you and your child can sit together.  Snottily telling me (not asking, telling) me that I need to move out of my seat because your child "likes that one best" is going to garner absolutely no reaction from me.  If there were no other free seats, I'd give you mine as a child standing on a moving bus is unsteady and likely to fall and that's a safety thing.  But when the bus is barely half full?  Pick any of the other seats.  I was here first.  If our roles were reversed and I told you you had to move because I like your seat best, you'd laugh me off the bus, and you'd be justified in doing so.

However, that being said, I also think it's extremely discourteous to not move seats for a small child if there are no free seats; that's down to a safety issue and I'm amazed at how often I see it.  I've given up my seat for a small child the same way as I've given up my seat for someone elderly/disabled....they cannot easily stand on a moving bus.  I can.  Seeing a little kid off-balance with the lurching bus makes me wince every time.

  If someone does not move, It could be that they need the seat, too. Small children are not the only ones who need to sit.  And if there is limited seating that small child will fit on a parent's lap better than an adult will.  If the parent wants the kid to sit in his/her own seat - then the parent can stand before a stranger should.

[twiggy]

Childfree: don't lie about crying babies to get a refund on your movie ticket. I actually spent 85% of the movie in the lobby because I ninja sprinted her out every time she clapped and squealed for joy at seeing Thor come on screen. The only reason I was in the hallway when you walked out of the theater is because the last time I dashed out, I left my souvenir cup behind and I was waiting for everyone to clear out so I could get it. When I see you poke your buddy and say "score, there was a kid in there" it makes me want to tell management you're lying to them when I see you at the counter demanding a refund, instead of the movie pass they usually give. (I was at the counter getting gift cards, so I heard the whole stupid thing. I wanted so badly to say something, but I knew I would just look like a crazy, defensive parent.)

Parents: If you take your child to a movie, do NOT let them disturb others around you. Yeah, it stinks that you might miss the movie, but that's the chance you take. I don't care if it's just a matinee, or just the cheap theater, I still paid my admission price to see the movie. I also don't care that it's an animated children's movie. I don't want to hear your little princess singing to the princess on the screen. And if the big, mean 8-10 year old sitting in front of your family turns around and politely asks your child to stop kicking his seat and to please be quiet so he can hear the movie, don't hiss back that "she's only 2." If your 2 year old can't sit still and be quiet, wait for the movie to come out on DVD and watch it at home. Also, don't get pissy with me when I don't take your side and vilify the polite boy

[Piratelvr1121]

Great thread!

Parents: please don't act like you are the only busy people in the world. I know plenty of crazed parents. I know plenty who have large amounts of time to pursue their own interests. I know plenty of childfree people who are buried, I know plenty who have mounds of free time. It totally depends on the individuals and their life circumstances and it's insulting and silly to make comments like "well when I was like you and had plenty of time to go out partying and the sleep all day..." I don't know one childfree person whose life rolls like that. Most of us work and have other obligations.

I roll my eyes at that one too, when I hear other parents doing that.  Hell, I have 3 kids and I think my childfree best friend is busier than I am during the day, if only cause during the school year my elder two are in school and I'm not having to chase after the baby (yet). Not to mention, because she's also single and lives alone, when she's not working 40 hours a week, she's having to fine time to do the house and yardwork.  I think it's ridiculous that some parents assume that the childfree have so much more free time than we do.

To the parents of the kid I heard shrieking from halfway across the Walmart: As a fellow parent, I can empathize about toddlers screaming for something they want and are told they're not getting, and while ignoring it may be your solution at home, please don't subject the rest of the shoppers to that ear piercing shriek.  While I know it's not pleasant, one of you (I know there were two parents cause I did end up seeing the family of 4 in the toy section and both of them were ignoring the girl) could take her out to the car until she finishes shrieking.  Yes, it's not fun to hear your kid shrieking in a small, enclosed space but hell, parenting isn't always fun. 

[snowdragon]

Parents: If you take your child to a movie, do NOT let them disturb others around you. Yeah, it stinks that you might miss the movie, but that's the chance you take. I don't care if it's just a matinee, or just the cheap theater, I still paid my admission price to see the movie. I also don't care that it's an animated children's movie. I don't want to hear your little princess singing to the princess on the screen. And if the big, mean 8-10 year old sitting in front of your family turns around and politely asks your child to stop kicking his seat and to please be quiet so he can hear the movie, don't hiss back that "she's only 2." If your 2 year old can't sit still and be quiet, wait for the movie to come out on DVD and watch it at home. Also, don't get pissy with me when I don't take your side and vilify the polite boy

Also do not let your child chat through live dance or theatre performances. No it's  not less annoying because she''s asking about the event....other folks want to hear what's going on on stage and it's rude to them and the performers to allow this.  Allowing them to scream that ear splitting scream that toddlers and young kids can do - is dangerous to the performers.  I saw a kid fall from an acrobatic "circle" when another child let out with one recently. 

[hobish]

Great thread!

Parents: please don't act like you are the only busy people in the world. I know plenty of crazed parents. I know plenty who have large amounts of time to pursue their own interests. I know plenty of childfree people who are buried, I know plenty who have mounds of free time. It totally depends on the individuals and their life circumstances and it's insulting and silly to make comments like "well when I was like you and had plenty of time to go out partying and the sleep all day..." I don't know one childfree person whose life rolls like that. Most of us work and have other obligations.

Parents: please please please stop letting your children run wild in public. Yes children can be loud and rambunctious but it's your job to teach them when it's OK to be loud and rambunctious and to teach them how to exercise self-control. Public space does not translate into "children's needs wants and desires come first, always, so if they want to run and shout, they can." So stop with the "but that's what kids do!" attitude and take things in hand.

Childfree: stop calling parents and kids ugly names like "moos" and "duhs." It's low-rent and tacky and makes you and the rest of us look silly and childish. There are plenty of great parents out there, BTW.

Childfree: Don't move in next to a playground and school yard and the moan about the noise. Yes, I agree, kids today seem to be louder and screechier than we were allowed to be but honestly? Schoolyards and playgrounds have never in history been quiet places. These are the places kids are supposed to be blowing off steam. Let them. 

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.

[Midnight Kitty]

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.

Thank you, hobish.  The post I started wasn't as diplomatic, so I deleted it when I read your post.  You phrased it nicely.  I was a bit taken aback when nuit93 said, "You are not better than me because you reproduced."  Then s/he (?) balanced it with, "You are not better than someone who has reproduced."

[Auntie Mame]

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

I'm not.  But the people who rage at me seem to be.  I just walk away.

[Piratelvr1121]

I wonder, since when has it been the public's business what a man or woman choose to do about reproduction? My childfree bf has told me about people asking her why she didn't have kids, while giving her reasons why she should have.  As if she can change anything about that now, being in her mid 50's. 

As if it's any of their business anyway. 

[snowdragon]

I wonder, since when has it been the public's business what a man or woman choose to do about reproduction? My childfree bf has told me about people asking her why she didn't have kids, while giving her reasons why she should have.  As if she can change anything about that now, being in her mid 50's. 

As if it's any of their business anyway.

  I have had that done to me too. I've had people tell me I was being rude when I declined to discuss it.

Parents: You get to set rules for your minor children, not other adults. What I wear, what and when I eat, what I read or believe are not for you to limit. Nor do you get to make promises for me about anything, whether that's visiting, using my property or memberships to any place. If I want to share I will, if not, just because I have a DVD player does not mean Johnny or Susie get to "share" it or that you get a say in what I watch...same goes for any electronics, crafts or anything else.

[nuit93]

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.

Thank you, hobish.  The post I started wasn't as diplomatic, so I deleted it when I read your post.  You phrased it nicely.  I was a bit taken aback when nuit93 said, "You are not better than me because you reproduced."  Then s/he (?) balanced it with, "You are not better than someone who has reproduced."

I'm female 

I used the phrasing "you are not better than ME because you reproduced" because I myself do not and will not have kids and have taken permanent measures to that effect.  So it was a tad less wordy than "you are not better than someone who has not reproduced because you reproduced".  In other words, what you do or don't do with your reproductive bits doesn't make you better than someone else who did something different.


Though in the end...Wil Wheaton's law pretty much covers it.

[Diane AKA Traska]

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.

Thank you, hobish.  The post I started wasn't as diplomatic, so I deleted it when I read your post.  You phrased it nicely.  I was a bit taken aback when nuit93 said, "You are not better than me because you reproduced."  Then s/he (?) balanced it with, "You are not better than someone who has reproduced."

I'm female 

I used the phrasing "you are not better than ME because you reproduced" because I myself do not and will not have kids and have taken permanent measures to that effect.  So it was a tad less wordy than "you are not better than someone who has not reproduced because you reproduced".  In other words, what you do or don't do with your reproductive bits doesn't make you better than someone else who did something different.


Though in the end...Wil Wheaton's law pretty much covers it.

Clarification:  Don't be a [male reproductive organ, or detective].

[Hollanda]

Childfree: don't assume we with kids can.not make a function. We can get babysitter...

parents: don't take your child to an adult event without checking with the planner first!

[veryfluffy]

Parents: Do not tell a childfree person that they will change their mind. If you are that prescient, use your psychic energy to pick your lottery numbers. Maybe you used to think you didn't want children and you changed your mind, or maybe it was simply that your BC failed and you are now very happy to be a parent. But no, we are not "slaves to our hormones". We have brains, just like you do.

Childfree: Just because you can't fathom why someone would want to be a parent or endure a pregnancy, the correct response to finding out that someone is expecting isn't, "Oh no! What are you going to do?!" or "Are you going to keep it?" Usually, congratulations are in order. Even if you have trouble with congratulations, or suspect that the situation is complicated, try "How exciting for you!" or "Wow, how are you feeling?"