The Etiquette of the Childfree

[snowdragon]

Parents: Do not tell a childfree person that they will change their mind. If you are that prescient, use your psychic energy to pick your lottery numbers. Maybe you used to think you didn't want children and you changed your mind, or maybe it was simply that your BC failed and you are now very happy to be a parent. But no, we are not "slaves to our hormones". We have brains, just like you do.

Childfree: Just because you can't fathom why someone would want to be a parent or endure a pregnancy, the correct response to finding out that someone is expecting isn't, "Oh no! What are you going to do?!" or "Are you going to keep it?" Usually, congratulations are in order. Even if you have trouble with congratulations, or suspect that the situation is complicated, try "How exciting for you!" or "Wow, how are you feeling?"

Childfree: Adding on to the above - Nor is is acceptable in  any known universe to tell a parent "You'd better give that kid up before you get attached"  because  you think the parent is too young or you disapprove of single parents. 

[Bexx27]

Childfree: don't assume we with kids can.not make a function. We can get babysitter...

parents: don't take your child to an adult event without checking with the planner first! unless the child is invited.

Fixed that for you. 

Childfree: If a parent turns down an invitation because of commitments to his/her child(ren), please accept that answer graciously. Do not sigh in exasperation and say, "you know, you don't have to do everything you do with your daughter." (Courtesy of one of DH's friends.  )

[Hollanda]

Thanks Bexx I typed that on phone and pressed send before editing! That was of course what I meant.

[Garden Goblin]

Parents -

If your child breaks something, especially something he was not invited to handle in the first place, the correct response is 'how can I make this right', not 'he's only two!'.

Childfree -

It is somewhat less wise to leave a nifty shiny cool thing unattended in the presence of children than in the presence of adults.  Kids are slightly less adept at considering the consequences of their actions than adults.

Parents -

Yes, that item is indeed expensive to replace, that doesn't change that if your child broke it, it is your responsibility to see the owner made whole

Childfree -

Seriously, you left a brand new iPod running a Spongebob game unattended on a table in the kid's section of the library?  Consider the fact that you are getting it replaced with a used one with a couple scratches on the case as a stupidity tax and let it go.

Me -

No, it's wrong to grab two people by the scruff of the neck and thump their heads together until they stop acting like morons.

[Hollanda]

Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?

Parents: don't criticise other parents on their parenting skills. Being.smug is not clever. Sure, your child is well behaved now, but I am sure he has meltdown and bad days like any other child. Come now, you don't want others.judging you and finding you lacking, do you?

[veryfluffy]

Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?

That's not just the childfree, though, is it? It's other parents, it's grandparents, it's anyone -- tut-tutting is certainly not limited to the childfree, and your comment is a bit unfair in singling them out.

[AngelicGamer]

Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?

That's not just the childfree, though, is it? It's other parents, it's grandparents, it's anyone -- tut-tutting is certainly not limited to the childfree, and your comment is a bit unfair in singling them out.

It's not limited to the childfree but it is most likely to happen.  I know that I have (along with rolling my eyes) when I was a fresh noob CF.  I have since grown up - along with realizing that I don't want to be that much of a jerk to others around me - that I don't anymore.  I see where Hollanda is coming from, as a former tut tutter.  Now, all I do is quickly get out of where the child is having a meltdown so I don't have a mental one that goes into a migraine. 

[whatsanenigma]

If someone is childfree by choice due to medical issues, don't bring up all the people you know or have heard about who also have those medical issues that had children and everything is fine, especially not if those people happen to be celebrities.  Everyone's medical issues are different, even when it's the same illness, and maybe those other people don't have the same combination of multiple issues.  Also, depending on the particular disease or disorder involved, everything might not actually be "just fine", but the problem just hasn't appeared yet.

Also, please understand that when someone makes this choice, to be childfree due to medical issues, it is not a negative judgement against anyone else with said medical issues who does choose to have children.  There is no need to get defensive, even if it's you personally who has some version of the medical issues who decided to have children.  The issue is so personal and for each individual to decide what the best judgement call is for their particular case.

And though I've never personally met anyone who was childfree by choice due to medical issues who did somehow consider themselves morally superior to those with the same issues who have had children, there are probably some people like that out there, so I'll go ahead and say that if you do feel this way,  don't tell anybody that, and try to get over it, because it's just really rude, IMHO.

[whatsanenigma]

Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?

That's not just the childfree, though, is it? It's other parents, it's grandparents, it's anyone -- tut-tutting is certainly not limited to the childfree, and your comment is a bit unfair in singling them out.

It's not limited to the childfree but it is most likely to happen.  I know that I have (along with rolling my eyes) when I was a fresh noob CF.  I have since grown up - along with realizing that I don't want to be that much of a jerk to others around me - that I don't anymore.  I see where Hollanda is coming from, as a former tut tutter.  Now, all I do is quickly get out of where the child is having a meltdown so I don't have a mental one that goes into a migraine. 

If I am out with someone like my sister, and we encounter a child having some kind of meltdown, I will usually say to my companion, "Sounds like somebody is having a rough day, huh?" in a tone that is sympathetic to the adult with the child.  And then we sometimes get onto the topic of times it was rough on us in public when my nieces (or other relevant children) were small.

I never say anything directly to the parent of the child, though if we pass closely, I will give a sympathetic smile.  I hope if the parent overhears what I am saying to my sister, though, that it is at least somewhat comforting.

[veryfluffy]

Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?

That's not just the childfree, though, is it? It's other parents, it's grandparents, it's anyone -- tut-tutting is certainly not limited to the childfree, and your comment is a bit unfair in singling them out.

It's not limited to the childfree but it is most likely to happen.  I know that I have (along with rolling my eyes) when I was a fresh noob CF.  I have since grown up - along with realizing that I don't want to be that much of a jerk to others around me - that I don't anymore.  I see where Hollanda is coming from, as a former tut tutter.  Now, all I do is quickly get out of where the child is having a meltdown so I don't have a mental one that goes into a migraine. 

Sorry, I disagree with this. I can think of any number of parents and granparents, those who are not childfree but perhaps don't yet have their own children, or even teenagers or younger children who are just as likely to display irritation at a screaming kid being ignored by an oblivious adult. Or by singling out the childfree, are you suggesting that this behaviour is acceptable for anyone else except the childfree?

This point is not really relevant to childfree etiquette, it is about child-in-public etiquette.

[nuit93]

Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?

That's not just the childfree, though, is it? It's other parents, it's grandparents, it's anyone -- tut-tutting is certainly not limited to the childfree, and your comment is a bit unfair in singling them out.

It's not limited to the childfree but it is most likely to happen.  I know that I have (along with rolling my eyes) when I was a fresh noob CF.  I have since grown up - along with realizing that I don't want to be that much of a jerk to others around me - that I don't anymore.  I see where Hollanda is coming from, as a former tut tutter.  Now, all I do is quickly get out of where the child is having a meltdown so I don't have a mental one that goes into a migraine. 

If I am out with someone like my sister, and we encounter a child having some kind of meltdown, I will usually say to my companion, "Sounds like somebody is having a rough day, huh?" in a tone that is sympathetic to the adult with the child.  And then we sometimes get onto the topic of times it was rough on us in public when my nieces (or other relevant children) were small.

I never say anything directly to the parent of the child, though if we pass closely, I will give a sympathetic smile.  I hope if the parent overhears what I am saying to my sister, though, that it is at least somewhat comforting.

I would never say it outright, but is it wrong that I often find myself impressed at the lung capacity of small children and their ability to create window-vibrating screams?   

[kherbert05]

When my oldest niece was a little girl, my Sis and BIL had a rule. When they had her (she lived with her Mom), they did not leave her with babysitters during the day, if they were not working. In the evening when she was asleep, they would get one. They saw her little enough and her Mom was forever trying to get their visitation reduced. She would use them leaving the child with babysitters or even the child having overnights with her grandmother as proof they weren't spending time with the child.  Then try to use that as justification for reducing their visitation.

[Hollanda]

I mentioned further along in my postabout parents who judge other parents...did you not read that bit?

[starbuck]

Great thread!

Parents: please don't act like you are the only busy people in the world. I know plenty of crazed parents. I know plenty who have large amounts of time to pursue their own interests. I know plenty of childfree people who are buried, I know plenty who have mounds of free time. It totally depends on the individuals and their life circumstances and it's insulting and silly to make comments like "well when I was like you and had plenty of time to go out partying and the sleep all day..." I don't know one childfree person whose life rolls like that. Most of us work and have other obligations.

Parents: please please please stop letting your children run wild in public. Yes children can be loud and rambunctious but it's your job to teach them when it's OK to be loud and rambunctious and to teach them how to exercise self-control. Public space does not translate into "children's needs wants and desires come first, always, so if they want to run and shout, they can." So stop with the "but that's what kids do!" attitude and take things in hand.

Childfree: stop calling parents and kids ugly names like "moos" and "duhs." It's low-rent and tacky and makes you and the rest of us look silly and childish. There are plenty of great parents out there, BTW.

Childfree: Don't move in next to a playground and school yard and the moan about the noise. Yes, I agree, kids today seem to be louder and screechier than we were allowed to be but honestly? Schoolyards and playgrounds have never in history been quiet places. These are the places kids are supposed to be blowing off steam. Let them. 

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.

Sorry, late to return to this thread. Goodness, it certainly wasn't my intention to cause drama or bad feelings. I'm childfree BTW, so my statement came from the perspective of my own experience in that I see a lot of my childfree friends are so agitated these days that the slightest thing sets them off where children are concerned. Perhaps I should have expressed that in more detail so it was clear.

Added: I'm not a frequent poster here but I've been coming for a short while and I must say in my time here I've been surprised at how quick off the mark and "assume the worst, jump down someone's throat" people are here for a board on manners and how to conduct oneself in civil manner. Instead of chiding me or, for another poster, firing off an (unposted) undiplomatic post, how about saying, "I'm not sure I understand what you mean here?" or "We may disagree, don't you think parents are looking for a fight as well?" I've made one small post in a 6 page thread (until this one) yet several people felt the need to wag an e-finger at me and express anger at my supposed attempt to divide or enrage the discussion rather than providing any kind of benefit of the doubt which, IMO, would have been the civil thing to do.

[Hollanda]

Great thread!

Parents: please don't act like you are the only busy people in the world. I know plenty of crazed parents. I know plenty who have large amounts of time to pursue their own interests. I know plenty of childfree people who are buried, I know plenty who have mounds of free time. It totally depends on the individuals and their life circumstances and it's insulting and silly to make comments like "well when I was like you and had plenty of time to go out partying and the sleep all day..." I don't know one childfree person whose life rolls like that. Most of us work and have other obligations.

Parents: please please please stop letting your children run wild in public. Yes children can be loud and rambunctious but it's your job to teach them when it's OK to be loud and rambunctious and to teach them how to exercise self-control. Public space does not translate into "children's needs wants and desires come first, always, so if they want to run and shout, they can." So stop with the "but that's what kids do!" attitude and take things in hand.

Childfree: stop calling parents and kids ugly names like "moos" and "duhs." It's low-rent and tacky and makes you and the rest of us look silly and childish. There are plenty of great parents out there, BTW.

Childfree: Don't move in next to a playground and school yard and the moan about the noise. Yes, I agree, kids today seem to be louder and screechier than we were allowed to be but honestly? Schoolyards and playgrounds have never in history been quiet places. These are the places kids are supposed to be blowing off steam. Let them. 

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.

Sorry, late to return to this thread. Goodness, it certainly wasn't my intention to cause drama or bad feelings. I'm childfree BTW, so my statement came from the perspective of my own experience in that I see a lot of my childfree friends are so agitated these days that the slightest thing sets them off where children are concerned. Perhaps I should have expressed that in more detail so it was clear.

Added: I'm not a frequent poster here but I've been coming for a short while and I must say in my time here I've been surprised at how quick off the mark and "assume the worst, jump down someone's throat" people are here for a board on manners and how to conduct oneself in civil manner. Instead of chiding me or, for another poster, firing off an (unposted) undiplomatic post, how about saying, "I'm not sure I understand what you mean here?" or "We may disagree, don't you think parents are looking for a fight as well?" I've made one small post in a 6 page thread (until this one) yet several people felt the need to wag an e-finger at me and express anger at my supposed attempt to divide or enrage the discussion rather than providing any kind of benefit of the doubt which, IMO, would have been the civil thing to do.

POD.
 
I feel that sometimes it happens, Starbuck, when people don't read a post properly or misunderstand it.  I am quite happy to either reiterate what I mean or explain in further depth if this is required and I think there is any point. There are times, though, when responding to a chiding post creates more drama, so I just walk away from it and don't return to the thread, even when the subject hugely interests me.  Please don't feel victimised or anything, I doubt anyone is intending to "get at you", even though it seems that way. xxx