Question regarding a kosher BBQ

[WillyNilly]

I'm thinking if your guests keep kosher enough to mind dairy options being available on a separate table, they would mind the meat being kept in the fridge with dairy, so you might want to consider a cooler.

I think to be safe I'd just err on the side of caution and go no dairy and the strictest kosher I could manage reasonably. Its not like anyone is hurt in anyway by Kosher, and if a good number of people could be hurt by non-Kosher, why risk it?

[O'Dell]

Why exactly are you so set on having dairy desserts available?

I asked a friend's husband who keeps kosher, and he said he didn't love the idea, but if it was on a separate table and clearly marked then it should not be aproblem.

Okay so it's not a *problem* but it's not exactly ideal. I'm puzzled as to why, after seeing to so many details to make this a kosher BBQ, that you'd risk how it would be perceived. I don't know enough about keeping kosher to decide if it's rude or not. I just find it weird that having a dairy dessert option is that important in the scheme of the entire otherwise kosher meal.

[cicero]

I'm thinking if your guests keep kosher enough to mind dairy options being available on a separate table, they would mind the meat being kept in the fridge with dairy, so you might want to consider a cooler.

that's not a problem - most observant jews have one fridge which holds both dairy and meat products. (THere are rumors that some sects of ultra religious jews have separate fridges but i've never actually seen such homes).

the separation would be at the meal itself, not during storage.

[veryfluffy]

the separation would be at the meal itself, not during storage.

So if the dairy dishes are placed away from meat dishes for serving, and there is plenty of non-dairy options available for the observant, can it be rude for non-observant guests to eat dairy at the same meal? To me, that would be allowing some guests to impose their values and preferences on everyone else, even though their needs have been specifically accommodated. I think it would be rude of the guests to do attempt to do this.

[WillyNilly]

I'm thinking if your guests keep kosher enough to mind dairy options being available on a separate table, they would mind the meat being kept in the fridge with dairy, so you might want to consider a cooler.

that's not a problem - most observant jews have one fridge which holds both dairy and meat products. (THere are rumors that some sects of ultra religious jews have separate fridges but i've never actually seen such homes).

the separation would be at the meal itself, not during storage.

Its my understanding its quite common in NYC.  I certainly knew at least one family with 2 fridges (one meat, one dairy) as a kid and I knew (heck still know) lots of people with separate dishes for meat and dairy (or perhaps kosher/non-kosher... I never questioned the dishes so much just accepted when they said "oh for this meal we have to use these dishes for Kosher...").  I also know many Jews who insist on table cloths, doilies or placemats, etc on surfaces that have been used for non-kosher foods.

[lowspark]

The problem here is that there are so many different levels of observance. There are only two ways to guarantee that the most observant of your guests will be ok. Either go with the most stringent possible option (so no dairy desserts, etc.) or ask every one of your guests what they'll be ok with and go with the most stringent of the replies.

In the end, you can do whatever you want. But if there is the possibility that any of your guests are either not able to eat because you didn't go as far as you should have in the observance level, or eat and then are upset by the dairy desserts and feel that they have gone against their beliefs, then you, as hostess, are at risk of being rude.

[Winterlight]

The problem here is that there are so many different levels of observance. There are only two ways to guarantee that the most observant of your guests will be ok. Either go with the most stringent possible option (so no dairy desserts, etc.) or ask every one of your guests what they'll be ok with and go with the most stringent of the replies.

In the end, you can do whatever you want. But if there is the possibility that any of your guests are either not able to eat because you didn't go as far as you should have in the observance level, or eat and then are upset by the dairy desserts and feel that they have gone against their beliefs, then you, as hostess, are at risk of being rude.

Agreed. I think I'd just pick a nondairy dessert- it's less stress on you and won't risk upsetting your guests.

[Ms_Cellany]

Also, kashrut/kosher laws can extend to the dishes as well. In my dorm at college, one dorm-mate wouldn't lend me her skillet because I wanted to cook something that included dairy.

I think your best bet is to include one of the guests in all the planning.

[cicero]

the separation would be at the meal itself, not during storage.

So if the dairy dishes are placed away from meat dishes for serving, and there is plenty of non-dairy options available for the observant, can it be rude for non-observant guests to eat dairy at the same meal? To me, that would be allowing some guests to impose their values and preferences on everyone else, even though their needs have been specifically accommodated. I think it would be rude of the guests to do attempt to do this.

that is two separate (no pun intended)  issues

in a nutshell -
meals have to be dairy OR meat. strictly observant jews have separate dishes/pots/flatware for dairy and meat.
after a meat meal, you wait some period of time before eating dairy (usually 3 or 6 hours). so that if the meal is meat, you would not serve a dairy dessert.

as i said upthread - i would stick to a non dairy dessert. i think your kosher-keeping guests will feel more comfortable.

[audrey1962]

I'm vegan. I'd be happy to send you some non-dairy dessert recipes.

[Merry Mrs Martin]

   If I didn't feel comfortable asking the guests then I wouldn't serve dairy.   I don't think it's rude exactly , but for a person who doesn't know you well it might effect their confidence in the rest of the meal's Kosher standing.

[Shopaholic]

The default situation would be a non-dairy dessert. I just wanted to get some more opinions on the situation.

We've hosted kosher BBQs before, DH's coworkers, and he just confirmed with them what precautions needed to be taken.
They have also been so polite that they would never question how kosher the kitchen actually is.
Last time the non-dairy dessert I made was so terrible it was donwright embarrassing, and I take pride in my desserts.

In any case, I'm putting the cart before the horse here, because we haven't invited them yet and they haven't accepted.
Thank you all for your input!

Audrey - I would love some vegain dessert recipes! Could you PM me? (Or post them here/recipe folder if others are interested as well). Thanks!

[audrey1962]

I'd be happy to! I need to log off now though, but will post some as soon as I can. In the meantime, check out Chef Chloe:

http://chefchloe.com/vegan-recipes.html

I made the chocolate truffles and they were fabulous! Even omnivores loved them. Here's the recipe: http://chefchloe.com/sweets/vegan-cookie-dough-truffles.html

If you scroll down, Chloe provides information on how to find dairy-free chocolate.

(Is dairy-free chocolate acceptable? I know nothing about kosher.)

[audrey1962]

Chef Chloe tends to use substitutes, which I try to avoid (although her recipes are delicious). I prefer to use more natural ingredients. I do use dairy-free chocolate though. Ghiradelli makes some, and I love Ghiradelli, so I use that.

Here's what I made for Easter:

Chocolate strudel
12 oz semi sweet chocolate chips
6 oz slivered almonds
2 sheets frozen puff pastry

Thaw pastry sheets according to package directions
Preheat oven to 375

Place almonds in food processor and grind
Add chocolate chips and pulse just once or twice
Unfold pastry onto baking sheet
Line middle third of sheet with 1/4 of chocolate almond mixture
Fold over once
Line with another 1/4 of filling
Fold over again and press closed (or as best you can)
Repeat with second pastry sheet
Bake for about 25 minutes or golden
Cool for 30 minutes then cut into slices and serve
Makes 12

You can dust the cut pastry with cocoa if you like. I served mine with mixed berries. The chocolate mixture can be rather dense and the berries help lighten it (plus, I just like fruit!).

Another option is if you can find frozen mini pastry shells (or make your own if you have the time). Fill the shells with fresh chopped fruit sprinkled with a little sugar or with a dollop of jam - or just jam if you like - and bake according to package directions.

I have some other recipes, too, including one for apple cake. No faux ingredients, all natural. Let me know if you're interested and I can PM or post to the board (I don't want to become a thread jacker!).

[MindsEye]

So if the dairy dishes are placed away from meat dishes for serving, and there is plenty of non-dairy options available for the observant, can it be rude for non-observant guests to eat dairy at the same meal? To me, that would be allowing some guests to impose their values and preferences on everyone else, even though their needs have been specifically accommodated. I think it would be rude of the guests to do attempt to do this.

I am not sure that I understand what you think is rude here... do you think that it is rude for people who don't keep kosher to eat a dairy and meat meal in front of people who do eat kosher?  How would that be "allowing some guests to impose their values and preferences on everyone else"?

There is a full range of options and people can eat to their desired level of kosher-ness. 

I guess that I can't see the problem, unless the non-kosher guests are going to literally rub ice cream in the faces of the kosher guests.

this is a really interesting article on milk and meat in kosher law - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_and_meat_in_Jewish_law - and it basically says that the physical proximity of milk and meat dishes is fine as long as there is no cross contamination.