Author Topic: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30  (Read 7254 times)

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NutellaNut

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Re: It's All Good - offensive?
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2012, 09:32:06 AM »
Soooooo, as predicted, Mary is not interested in moving forward or smoothing things over.  She replied to my above email.  I'm going to paraphrase since I'm not sure about whether it would OK to quote her:

Again she launches in without preamble or greeting.

"It's not just one thing going wrong but things working against each other.  There was at least one of my emails and maybe an email list post which weren't answered.  And it's not just me.  And when some of the people involved in the event are already being testy, I'm not going ask again and again.  This is all just more proof that you can't depend only on the internet for communication when putting on an event.  I know if I were in charge of an event, I would be making phone calls to contact people.

Mary"

The tone of this letter is actually less hostile than the first one she sent me.   ::)

I just want to say that I know we weren't perfect in every detail in running this event.  I don't want Ehellions to think I am taking umbrage at the slightest criticism and refusing to hear that there's need for improvement.  Many times after an event I've run, we hold an event wrap-up meeting where we go over in detail what went right and wrong at the event, and try to figure out ways to improve it for the future - and in fact we have a meeting set up for that purpose in a week.  I definitely have screwed up sometimes, and I do want to make amends when that happens.

But I went (again!) through my emails and the posts on the list.  Mary posted just 5 times in regard to the event, and was answered every time.  I don't have *any* personal emails from her on the event at all.  Sandy and I *did* fail to re-contact Mary when several weeks went by without her responding to Sandy's question about the item, but I have no evidence that Sandy was "testy" with Mary in any way.  Sandy *isn't* usually testy or crabby, and actually it's Mary who's known for being grumpy and hot-tempered and flying off over nothing on a regular basis.

In the month before this event, I wrote more than 200 emails and posts to lists.  I did make phone calls, at least 20 of them.  I spent probably more than 100 hours of my time organizing this thing, and last weekend was hell, almost constant work.  I'm still fighting a flare in my health problems, and stress exacerbates that (thank you, Mary, for adding to that!).  Mary did almost nothing for the event - she taught a class.  I'm not sure that she did *anything* else.

I've run over 30 events in the 25 years in my hobby club, some ranging up to 600 participants.  In the old days we didn't have email, everything was by phone.  It definitely took much more time, there were more mix-ups due to misunderstandings and the fact that things were not written down, and it certainly didn't ensure that people were always contacted - that still depended on the people. 

And I just want to say to her, if she felt that email communication wasn't working, that Sandy or I didn't respond to her email or post, why didn't *she* pick up the phone and contact us?  The phone works in both directions!

I'm sorry, I am feeling frustrated.  I need to figure a way not to give Mary space in my head anymore. 

Should I bother responding to her reply, or just let it flop on the floor?

Many thanks to you all for listening.





 

JenJay

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2012, 09:39:12 AM »
Mary won't be happy until you run to her house, hit your knees and beg forgiveness with much emphasis on how right she was and assurances that nothing was her fault. I'd not reply again. I'd also not seek out her help again. Include her on group emails as usual and make darn sure you have confirmation in writing for anything she volunteers to do. Maybe her participation will fizzle out?  :-\

Bast

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2012, 09:43:26 AM »
This is probably turning into a case of "don't engage the crazy (or looking to be offended)."  Don't reply.
Student nurse by day...exhausted by night.

MamaMootz

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2012, 09:57:06 AM »
Delete and move on. The more you engage, the more she's going to beat you over the head with how wrong you supposedly were, and it's only going to serve to upset you and take up too much of your time. You apologized. She chose to keep harping. Best to walk away. She doesn't have to accept your apology but you don't have to grovel to make things right with her either.
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Piratelvr1121

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2012, 11:25:11 AM »
Yeah she won't be satisfied until you prostrate yourself, crying "Mea culpa, mea culpa!" which, btw, I strongly advise against. ;)
"No cause is lost, if there is but one fool left to fight for it."
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still in va

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2012, 11:35:24 AM »
Mary won't be happy until you run to her house, hit your knees and beg forgiveness with much emphasis on how right she was and assurances that nothing was her fault. I'd not reply again. I'd also not seek out her help again. Include her on group emails as usual and make darn sure you have confirmation in writing for anything she volunteers to do. Maybe her participation will fizzle out?  :-\

POD.

Mary seems to be way too much work.  you've explained and apologized.  she's still not happy.  she's never going to BE happy. 

TootsNYC

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2012, 11:35:40 AM »
don't respond. Don't.

Well, maybe write something out in Word, and then delete it, if that'll help you get it out of your head.

And did you try my "individual and detailed thank-you notes" exercise? That might help get her out of your head.

Or go play with a dog somewhere, or a cat.
(I always think it's a bummer that the dog park has signs that say, "no people without a dog.")


Giggity

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Re: It's All Good - offensive?
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2012, 04:15:15 PM »
I especially wouldn't ever say "please understand that no one is upset." That just says to me that people ARE upset, or that you believe there is a REASON for people to be upset.

I'm confused. How does "no one is upset" mean "people are upset"?
Words mean things.

Corvid

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2012, 06:18:00 PM »
Sounds like Ms. High-Maintenance is enjoying herself chewing on this bone, which means that even if you prostrated yourself before her, bathed her feet with your tears and dried them with your hair, she'd still continue gnawing away because somewhere in her little psyche it's more pleasurable than being placated. 

I wouldn't reply to her last communication.  Sometimes the only way to win is not to play the game.

Martienne

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2012, 06:58:33 PM »
I especially wouldn't ever say "please understand that no one is upset." That just says to me that people ARE upset, or that you believe there is a REASON for people to be upset.

I'm confused. How does "no one is upset" mean "people are upset"?

The same way that "with all due respect" means "I don't respect you at all."

I've learned not to use this phrase in a sincere context. It's always taken as sarcasm.

I don't think "no one is upset" would mean "people are upset" to a person who wasn't looking for a offense, but that's not the type of person being dealt with here.

Nutella, I agree with those who say you should stop discussing the issue.

Mental Magpie

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2012, 07:12:30 PM »
I especially wouldn't ever say "please understand that no one is upset." That just says to me that people ARE upset, or that you believe there is a REASON for people to be upset.

I'm confused. How does "no one is upset" mean "people are upset"?

The same way that "with all due respect" means "I don't respect you at all."

I've learned not to use this phrase in a sincere context. It's always taken as sarcasm.

I don't think "no one is upset" would mean "people are upset" to a person who wasn't looking for a offense, but that's not the type of person being dealt with here.

Nutella, I agree with those who say you should stop discussing the issue.

When I hear, "With all due respect", I take it to mean, "I respect you, but I've got to say this and saying this is not giving you the respect I usually give you".
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

TootsNYC

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2012, 11:27:35 PM »
I especially wouldn't ever say "please understand that no one is upset." That just says to me that people ARE upset, or that you believe there is a REASON for people to be upset.

I'm confused. How does "no one is upset" mean "people are upset"?

The same way that "with all due respect" means "I don't respect you at all."

I've learned not to use this phrase in a sincere context. It's always taken as sarcasm.

I don't think "no one is upset" would mean "people are upset" to a person who wasn't looking for a offense, but that's not the type of person being dealt with here.


If you bought everyone ice cream, would anyone ever say to you, "no one is upset"?

Nope. So saying "no one is upset" says, at the VERY least, that SOMEONE thinks people *should* be upset. And if the person you're talking to is not the one who thinks that, they are going to assume that either (a) you or (b) someone else you know thinks that this is an upset-worthy situation.

Kaypeep

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2012, 11:46:10 PM »
My first instinct is don't engage the crazy because she sounds like the type who always has to have the last word, so this will never end.  However, perhaps a short, generic response might shut her down, or at least leave her with little to respond to, so you can ignore her NEXT email.  Maybe a reply like:

"Duly noted.  I appreciate your input and will share your concerns at our post-event wrap up to help ensure next years event runs more smoothly.  Thank you!"

Giggity

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2012, 08:13:56 AM »
I especially wouldn't ever say "please understand that no one is upset." That just says to me that people ARE upset, or that you believe there is a REASON for people to be upset.

I'm confused. How does "no one is upset" mean "people are upset"?

The same way that "with all due respect" means "I don't respect you at all."

I've learned not to use this phrase in a sincere context. It's always taken as sarcasm.

I don't think "no one is upset" would mean "people are upset" to a person who wasn't looking for a offense, but that's not the type of person being dealt with here.

But why go to all the trouble, why expend the mental energy, to think A must mean X even though someone clearly said A? If I write "no one is upset," and Sherrie reads "someone is upset," what else does she not believe me when I write?

This makes me not understand non-literal people even more. I write what I mean, and I expect people to read what I mean. I can't be responsible for them thinking A must mean X when I wrote A.
Words mean things.

Winterlight

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Re: It's All Good - offensive? Updates - Posts #21 and #30
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2012, 09:32:46 AM »
Mary wants to be upset. Leave her to it, don't answer the email and get on with your day. She'll get over it or die mad- either way, not your problem. :)
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