Author Topic: Mooching "Friend" strikes again - OP edited to contain link  (Read 4521 times)

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DollyPond

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Dear E-hellions,

I’ve posted about my etiquette-challenged friend before and think I may have finally come to the end of my rope with her.  I do however, need some perspective and advice as to how to continue in the future.

I once again made the mistake of traveling with this friend (let’s call her Kay) even though there were recent issues with her on a trip a few months ago.  (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=113717.msg2645758#msg2645758)  This was a short 3-day trip that also involved Kay’s sister, Karen who met us at the destination.

Most of Kay’s issues revolve around food, as in hoarding it, mooching it and having a skewed perspective of what constitutes a meal.  Some of this may be approaching the level of a psychological condition and is probably beyond the scope of this forum.  I’ll just relate the 2 most egregious incidents on the trip (one involves food, the other doesn’t) although there were many other snide comments and slights the whole time.

Incident 1:  I wanted to go to a certain grocery store in Destination City because a co-worker told me that there were different flavors of an item that I like available there.  Kay, Karen and I go to the store and I pick up 10 of the items I want.

As Karen and I are scanning the 10 items at the self-checkout, Kay walks up with a bag of chips and scans those onto my bill as well.  This is a very common MO for her - to get people to buy things for her and then conveniently “forget” to pay them back.  I said “Oh, am I buying chips for you?”  Her response was an indignant, “Well we can ALL share them!”  I said, “That still doesn’t take away from the fact that I am the one buying them.”  She had no response.

No one saw the chips for the rest of the trip as they got stashed (hoarded) in the trunk of her car.  When we got back to the hotel, Kay saw me putting my items in the car and said, “Are you not going to bring those to the room to share with the rest of us??”  I simply stared and continued what I was doing.

Incident 2:  Karen was in a gift shop buying souvenirs for her children.   As Karen was checking out, Kay puts a book (~$20) on the counter and says “Buy this for me. I didn’t bring in any money.” (Are you seeing a pattern here?)  Never mind that her car with purse, cash and credit cards was only 50 feet away in the parking lot.

The next day, after Karen had left, Kay dismissively says, “Oh I forgot to pay Karen for the book!  Oh well.”  If current behavior holds true, Karen will never see the payment.

The perspective I need is in regard to these kinds of recurring incidents.  Much like the Drink Moocher thread, this moocher needs to be shut down.  Usually when someone objects to her antics she turns the situation around to how ungenerous the objector is and how virtuous she is for sharing everything she has.  Our group of friends has at least gotten to the point of asking for separate checks in restaurants whenever Kay is there to stop her mooching by not paying her fair share of the bill.

I don’t know if I’m making a mountain out of a molehill or if we have finally gotten to the straw that broke the camel’s back.  Throughout all of this, Karen said nothing but I wonder if she was just observing silently.  Another mutual friend, Cathy, has simply cut Kay off from mooching and refuses to travel with her anymore.  I think I may need to do the same.

Thoughts?

« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 05:25:46 PM by DollyPond »

Morticia

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 09:19:57 AM »
I have to wonder why you paid for her chips. It would have been perfectly acceptable to hand them to her, or at least tell the cashier that they are not your purchase.  Personally, I would never travel with her. I'm glad you ignored her attempt to share your other items.
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weeblewobble

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2012, 09:22:06 AM »
I know when you're dealing with this sort of personality, the tendency is to worry about being petty, because buying someone chips or a drink is not a huge deal in the big picture of things.  But when it's repeated behavior combined with an entitled, snotty attitude, it can really wear on you.  Even if Kay is mentally ill- obnoxious, irritating behavior from a mentally ill person isn't any less obnoxious or irritating, just because it comes from a mentally ill person.  You're allowed to have your feelings. Don't feel bad about setting boundaries.  It sounds like you're well on your way.

I think you need to sit down and re-evaluate the friendship, and determine whether you really want to continue it.  If not, slowly but surely withdraw from Kay.  Don't agree to every invitation.  Keep conversations vague and don't share details on spending or meals.  Take time responding to calls, emails and texts.  Definitely don't travel or go out to eat with her.

If you are interested in continuing the friendship, I would take a note from Cathy's book, no shared checks, no travel.   Mooches seem to be of the opinion that their company is just so wonderful and special that other people need to pay a toll (chips, dinner, drinks, books, special treats) for the privilege of spending time with them.  So avoid situations where Kay will expect to be treated for her "genorosity."

TootsNYC

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 09:32:57 AM »
You had several opportunities to either decline to be mooched off of, without waiting for her to volunteer to stop.

You could have handed her back the chips at the grocery store.
“Oh, am I buying chips for you?”  Her response was an indignant, “Well we can ALL share them!”  I said, “That still doesn’t take away from the fact that I am the one buying them.” "I don't really want to eat the chips. Here, if you want them, you pay for them, and then you can have them all to yourself."

If you'd bought the chips, you could have insisted on sharing them.
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No one saw the chips for the rest of the trip as they got stashed (hoarded) in the trunk of her car. I said, "Hey, were are those chips I bought for us to share? I'm in the mood for chips."

Depending which way the purchase went, you had an opportunity to show her how these things SHOULD work.
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When we got back to the hotel, Kay saw me putting my items in the car and said, “Are you not going to bring those to the room to share with the rest of us??”  I simply stared and continued what I was doing. I said, "No, Kay, I bought these just for me. The chips, I bought for us all to share / Just as you bought those chips for just you."

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Incident 2:  Karen was in a gift shop buying souvenirs for her children.   As Karen was checking out, Kay puts a book (~$20) on the counter and says “Buy this for me. I didn’t bring in any money.” (Are you seeing a pattern here?)  Never mind that her car with purse, cash and credit cards was only 50 feet away in the parking lot. You: "Ok, Kay, why don't you just go to the car and get your purse? Then you won't have to worry about remembering--and Karen won't have to worry either." (better yet, don't ever let her go ANYwhere with you without her purse--"Kay, you'll need your purse in case you want to buy something. No, I'm not willing to loan you money." You can also say, when you get back to the car, "Oh, Kay, don't you owe Karen for the book?")

Basically, anytime you notice her owing people money, you are completely free to remind her (and them) at the earliest opportunity for her to pay them back.


And, feel free to provide real-person feedback about her actions (or lack of them) that lets her know you do NOT approve and are shocked by her essential theft.
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The next day, after Karen had left, Kay dismissively says, “Oh I forgot to pay Karen for the book!  Oh well.”  You: "What? You mean you never paid her back? Kay, that was a lot of money! I'm shocked you didn't pay her, and I'm really shocked by the dismissive tone of voice. You aren't like that, are you? Someone who borrows money and never pays it back?"

Feel free to say, "If you don't pay her back, that's like stealing! You asked her to loan you the money; she did so because she thought you WOULD pay her back!" Be shocked.

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The perspective I need is in regard to these kinds of recurring incidents.  Much like the Drink Moocher thread, this moocher needs to be shut down. 
Or maybe just focus on not letting yourself or anybody in your orbit be a victim--use tactics like those above. Don't scold; just state.

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Usually when someone objects to her antics she turns the situation around to how ungenerous the objector is and how virtuous she is for sharing everything she has.
Stop caring. The only time those tactics work is if people think she's right, or believe what she says. Just say, evenly, "Be that as it may, I don't want to buy those chips, Kay. If you want them, you buy them." And if Kay won't take them off the conveyer belt, hand them to the cashier and say, "I'm sorry, I don't want to buy these--can I ask you to see they get back on the shelf?"

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  Our group of friends has at least gotten to the point of asking for separate checks in restaurants whenever Kay is there to stop her mooching by not paying her fair share of the bill.
See? That's why you just don't need to worry about whatever "blah, blah, blah" comes out of her mouth after you say, "No, I don't want to front you the money to buy the book." Or, "Kay, I don't think Karen should loan you that money--just go out to the car and get your purse. We'll wait!"

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I don’t know if I’m making a mountain out of a molehill or if we have finally gotten to the straw that broke the camel’s back.  Throughout all of this, Karen said nothing but I wonder if she was just observing silently.  Another mutual friend, Cathy, has simply cut Kay off from mooching and refuses to travel with her anymore.  I think I may need to do the same.

Thoughts?

I'd just cut her off completely.

And as to weeblewobble's astute observation about feeling petty--don't feel bad. You're not petty, and it's not all in your head.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 11:17:02 AM by TootsNYC »

Shoo

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 10:08:34 AM »
I have to wonder why you paid for her chips. It would have been perfectly acceptable to hand them to her, or at least tell the cashier that they are not your purchase.  Personally, I would never travel with her. I'm glad you ignored her attempt to share your other items.

I have to agree.  You simply should have handed them back to her and said, "I don't want any chips."  Or, at some point you could have asked, "Hey, where are those chips I bought?  I feel like having a snack."

You aren't helping yourself at all by giving in and then saying NOTHING to her!  I truly don't understand that.

DollyPond

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2012, 10:55:07 AM »
I think Weeblewobble hit it perfectly.  On an individual basis none of these things are really a big deal and I feel I would come off as petty to not buy a $2 bag of chips.  But after a long string of these "petty" incidents it becomes draining.

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Mooches seem to be of the opinion that their company is just so wonderful and special that other people need to pay a toll (chips, dinner, drinks, books, special treats) for the privilege of spending time with them.
 

This quote describes Kay's attitude perfectly!  She has even said out loud (of course it's all a "joke") that we should feel privileged to have her around.

I plan to be unavailable for any Kay associated activities for a long time.

rose red

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 11:01:29 AM »
I also don't understand why you and Karen brought stuff for her just because she put it on the counter and ordered you to.  Like we say on this board, you can't change other people's behavior, but you can change yours and just say no.

I know you are planning to avoid her, but there will come a day when getting together may happen.  Now is the time to practice saying no.

Bibliophile

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 11:03:40 AM »
You are letting her do this.  Tell her no.  Next time remind her to grab her bag before you even get out of the car.

“Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.” ~ Groucho Marx

weeblewobble

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 11:21:39 AM »
I am a little curious as to what Kay's quirk is when it comes to "what constitutes a meal."

JenJay

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 11:22:16 AM »
Kay is intentionally putting you in this position because she knows you feel uncomfortable saying no to such small purchases, even though she also knows you don't like it. I could easily find myself in your shoes and not feel right about just saying no (Not that it isn't right, because it is, but that doesn't change how it Feels.).

What I'd say is "Oh gosh, Kay, this is awkward but I can't afford to pay for your chips." then quickly wave over a store employee and have the item voided. I'd do this every time, for every purchase. She can stand there and protest that you CAN afford it but she'll only make herself look like a greedy fool.

And hey, it's not even a lie because mentally you can't afford the stress it causes you to deal with her constant mooching, right?!  ;)

jaxsue

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 11:28:12 AM »
I'd put the grocery store order divider between my stuff and her bag of chips. I've dealt with users like this, OP, back before I had a spine. I've since improved, and I can appreciate how difficult it is.

jaxsue

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 11:29:47 AM »
What I'd say is "Oh gosh, Kay, this is awkward but I can't afford to pay for your chips." then quickly wave over a store employee and have the item voided. I'd do this every time, for every purchase. She can stand there and protest that you CAN afford it but she'll only make herself look like a greedy fool.


I like this. You can say from the get-go that you're on a strict budget for the trip. But, I'm afraid any general statement is going to go way over her head. She's a user and is quite used to getting away with it.  :-\


Outdoor Girl

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2012, 11:34:15 AM »
What's that expression?  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

Kay would only ever mooch off me in this fashion once.  The next time?  'Kay, the last time I bought something for you to 'share', not only didn't you pay me back, you didn't share the item with me or anyone else, so I will not be buying those chips.'

I had someone do this to me in University in residence - she'd 'borrowed' a box of KD, promising to replace it.  She then told me to buy a box when I was shopping and she'd pay me back.  Then when I went to get the money, she rolled her eyes and asked if I was so worried about 79 cents.  I never lent her anything again.  It wasn't the 79 cents; it was the principle of the thing.  She didn't follow through on what she said she would do.
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JenJay

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2012, 11:47:13 AM »
What's that expression?  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.

Kay would only ever mooch off me in this fashion once.  The next time?  'Kay, the last time I bought something for you to 'share', not only didn't you pay me back, you didn't share the item with me or anyone else, so I will not be buying those chips.'

I had someone do this to me in University in residence - she'd 'borrowed' a box of KD, promising to replace it.  She then told me to buy a box when I was shopping and she'd pay me back.  Then when I went to get the money, she rolled her eyes and asked if I was so worried about 79 cents.  I never lent her anything again.  It wasn't the 79 cents; it was the principle of the thing.  She didn't follow through on what she said she would do.

Yep.

I had a relative visiting once who offered to keep me company when I ran to the store for dinner fixins. Okay, cool. As I was shopping she grabbed a few fun things for my kids and put them in my cart. I didn't mind because neither of us had enough items to fill it. I unloaded my stuff and put up a divider. She slid it back and put her things with mine, then wandered off. That was annoying but I paid because it was so awkward that I didn't know what else to do. The topper was when we got back to my house and she gave the items to my kids and said "Look what I got you!"  ???

Now when she's visiting and I need to run to the store I sneak out. Not the most mature way to handle it, but it works. lol

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Re: Mooching "Friend" strikes again (long)
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2012, 12:13:23 PM »
Since she did not share the chips, the next time say "Kay, you own me $2.59 for the chips you took."
Keep hounding her for the money. She will either pay up or avoid you. Either case you are a winner.
If you do in fact do anythign else for her, keep your boundaries strong. "Kaye, you say you will share yet you never do. Which is fine, but you are going to pay for your own food."