Author Topic: Paying compliments is rude?  (Read 22011 times)

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MariaE

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #75 on: May 26, 2012, 04:02:19 PM »
Garden Goblin the two situations aren't even remotely the same, so if you think they are, we shall just have to agree to disagree.

I think they are similar enough. (snip)

Obviously I disagree, so we shall just have to leave it at that.
 
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Allyson

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #76 on: May 26, 2012, 08:00:17 PM »
I don't think the issue is that flirting is always a bad thing, and I do think that it can be just fine if reciprocated. But because it is such a grey area, I think it's always better to be more cautious rather than less. Usually opening a conversation you mean to go further with an appearance comment isn't a good idea.

And I appreciate the honesty of 'I complimented her because I wanted to date her' as opposed to all of the 'oh, I didn't mean anything by it' whininess that can happen when a compliment isn't enthusiastically accepted. As Twik said, would the guy say it to another guy? If not, it's probably not totally innocent.

Raintree

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #77 on: May 27, 2012, 09:27:42 PM »
I think Reason is being perfectly reasonable. It sounds like he watches and pays attention to social cues (is the woman smiling at him, does she respond positively as opposed to monosyllables, is she acting interested?) He sizes up each stage and moves on if he detects a lack of interest.

He also states that he's had a high rate of success with his approach. This tells me that most of the women do not find him creepy.

I say if you can pull it off, go for it. If women tend to respond negatively, you probably can't pull off that approach and should try something else, like internet dating, or getting to know people slowly through clubs/activities that interest you. I think that some men are naturals at friendly flirtation with strangers, and others just aren't.


Sterling

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #78 on: May 27, 2012, 09:40:22 PM »
I have used this same method myself on men and find it works pretty well.  I also have given random compliments to strange women and I have yet have one act bothered.  Most seem to really enjoy the compliment.  I work at a university and I have found that a lot of even the prettiest 18 yr old girls have self esteem problems.  I almost always compliment something about my new students when I meet with them the first time.  It could be their shirt, their eyes or even an achievement I find out about during our talk such as placing during a high school track meet.

I find it helps build the type of teamwork relationship and trust I need with these students and makes them feel good about themselves and about me.  So I don't think that compliments are always rude.
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Mental Magpie

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #79 on: May 28, 2012, 12:33:55 AM »
I totally agree with Reason on this one and do think he's being quite reasonable.  He also has said nowhere that he just blurts out a compliment after only five minutes of conversation.  For all we know, he does get to know her a little bit more before he decides to compliment her.

Quote
In my experience, guys who talk about the 'friend zone' as a bad thing are much, much more likely to ultimately be creeps with a misogynistic sense of entitlement towards women.

Oh, Dark Boyfriend talked about the "friend zone"; he's not a creep nor misogynistic.  I also have plenty of male friends who also have talked about being in the "friend zone"; they aren't either.  I have been in the "friend zone".  I realize that you said that this was in your experience, but what you said was inflammatory and quite rude, IMO, and makes a lot of assumptions about people who would talk about the "friend zone".

ETA: I can't get the quote to work right.  I'm trying to quote Garden Goblin.
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Allyson

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #80 on: May 28, 2012, 01:21:05 AM »
I know the sort of person Garden Goblin is talking about, with the 'friend zone' stuff. My experience pretty much matches hers with the sort of people who talk about it--but it is just my experience, not universal of course!

It's the same guys who say 'women just don't want nice guys!' The female version of this seems to be 'I'm too independent for guys to pay attention to me!' It always seems to be saying, at least to me, 'if someone's not attracted to me, it's a fault in them' rather than just...lack of attraction. There are plenty of people out there (nice, independent, and neither!) that I'm not attracted to, but it's never because they're nice or independent.

I didn't get the vibe from Reason's posts at all that he's like this, though. And I do think that if someone's reasonably good at reading social cues, one can pretty easily be non-creepy with compliments. It's just, a lot of people...don't read social cues, then assume anyone unreceptive is being mean and unfriendly. (Again, the thing with 'they don't like me, so it's something wrong with them!') I didn't get any vibe from what Reason was saying that he thinks women who didn't want to give him a number or chat with him after a compliment were cold-hearted, which is a main sign of someone doing this sort of thing creepily.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #81 on: May 28, 2012, 01:38:16 AM »
I know the sort of person Garden Goblin is talking about, with the 'friend zone' stuff. My experience pretty much matches hers with the sort of people who talk about it--but it is just my experience, not universal of course!

It's the same guys who say 'women just don't want nice guys!' The female version of this seems to be 'I'm too independent for guys to pay attention to me!' It always seems to be saying, at least to me, 'if someone's not attracted to me, it's a fault in them' rather than just...lack of attraction. There are plenty of people out there (nice, independent, and neither!) that I'm not attracted to, but it's never because they're nice or independent.

I didn't get the vibe from Reason's posts at all that he's like this, though. And I do think that if someone's reasonably good at reading social cues, one can pretty easily be non-creepy with compliments. It's just, a lot of people...don't read social cues, then assume anyone unreceptive is being mean and unfriendly. (Again, the thing with 'they don't like me, so it's something wrong with them!') I didn't get any vibe from what Reason was saying that he thinks women who didn't want to give him a number or chat with him after a compliment were cold-hearted, which is a main sign of someone doing this sort of thing creepily.

Any one I've ever heard talk about the friend zone is usually in it because they're too shy or can't find the right words to say that they like the person.  I don't think I have ever met one that was in the friend zone because they blamed it on the other person.  Dark Boyfriend was in my friend zone because he never told me he liked me; I was in his friend zone because I didn't know how to flirt to let him know I liked him, too.

I don't get that vibe from Reason, either.  He seems very receptive to social cues.
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Gyburc

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #82 on: May 29, 2012, 07:13:01 AM »
I'd just like to add that I also think Reason is doing nothing wrong, and I wouldn't be in the least offended.

I see nothing particularly wrong with a polite compliment on any aspect of someone's physical appearance that isn't covered by cultural taboos - but I would say there is a sliding scale of appropriateness:

Level 1: Compliment on clothes/shoes/accessories
Level 2: Compliment on hairstyle/hair colour/make-up
Level 3: Compliment on features/smile
Level 4: Compliment on figure in general
Level 5: Compliment on taboo areas of the body

Personally, I would be comfortable giving or receiving compliments on levels 1 or 2 from complete strangers (it would make my day). Level 3 from a stranger would not be impolite, but would suggest to me that they were making an advance, level 4 would be a very obvious advance!  Level 5 from anyone except a very intimate friend is of course unacceptable.

Of course, this is all general - I'm sure there are situations that don't fit into the scale as I've given it.  :)
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Mental Magpie

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #83 on: May 29, 2012, 10:07:35 AM »
I'd just like to add that I also think Reason is doing nothing wrong, and I wouldn't be in the least offended.

I see nothing particularly wrong with a polite compliment on any aspect of someone's physical appearance that isn't covered by cultural taboos - but I would say there is a sliding scale of appropriateness:

Level 1: Compliment on clothes/shoes/accessories
Level 2: Compliment on hairstyle/hair colour/make-up
Level 3: Compliment on features/smile
Level 4: Compliment on figure in general
Level 5: Compliment on taboo areas of the body

Personally, I would be comfortable giving or receiving compliments on levels 1 or 2 from complete strangers (it would make my day). Level 3 from a stranger would not be impolite, but would suggest to me that they were making an advance, level 4 would be a very obvious advance!  Level 5 from anyone except a very intimate friend is of course unacceptable.

Of course, this is all general - I'm sure there are situations that don't fit into the scale as I've given it.  :)

I think that's a pretty good scale, and I agree with your assessment of what you would feel comfortable receiving.  The Level 3, though, depends where I am.  I smile A LOT, so it may be something people notice more about me if they spend more time around me (say at a party).  It wouldn't bother me as much in that situation versus a stranger who probably only saw me smile from afar once.
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Garden Goblin

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #84 on: May 29, 2012, 10:10:55 AM »
I realize that you said that this was in your experience, but what you said was inflammatory and quite rude, IMO, and makes a lot of assumptions about people who would talk about the "friend zone".

I am sorry you feel that way. 

I find the friend zone tends to be this - http://xkcd.com/513/

Rather than a simple matter of it just taking some time to establish attraction.  Also, as I pointed out, it is the people who talk about it like it is a bad thing that I am referring too; people who act like being just friends with someone is some sort of cruel torture when they 'obviously' deserve romantic attention from their preferred target.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #85 on: May 29, 2012, 10:21:32 AM »
I realize that you said that this was in your experience, but what you said was inflammatory and quite rude, IMO, and makes a lot of assumptions about people who would talk about the "friend zone".

I am sorry you feel that way. 

I find the friend zone tends to be this - http://xkcd.com/513/

Rather than a simple matter of it just taking some time to establish attraction.  Also, as I pointed out, it is the people who talk about it like it is a bad thing that I am referring too; people who act like being just friends with someone is some sort of cruel torture when they 'obviously' deserve romantic attention from their preferred target.

I get a totally different vibe from that comic than what I think you do.  That is the friend zone to me, too, but it's not that he deserves anything.  If he would just tell her her liked her, maybe he wouldn't be in the friend zone anymore or he would find she doesn't reciprocate and we wouldn't do everything a boyfriend does with none of the return (yes, good friends do that stuff, too, but when there is a longing for the other person, that changes things).  To me, the friend zone IS a bad thing when you want more than that but are too shy to say anything.  Like my examples with Dark Boyfriend and me.  We were just friends forever, wanting to move out of the friend zone, but both too shy to do so. 

I do know what you're talking about, though; I've definitely heard guys say that they deserve the romantic attention but aren't getting it because of her, not because of something he's doing wrong.  However, I don't think I've ever heard them refer to being in the friend zone.  I guess what I'm saying is to me, the friend zone is a sad place, where what I'm reading from you is that it is an angry place.  We definitely see it differently, though.
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Teenyweeny

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2012, 10:22:03 AM »
I realize that you said that this was in your experience, but what you said was inflammatory and quite rude, IMO, and makes a lot of assumptions about people who would talk about the "friend zone".

I am sorry you feel that way. 

I find the friend zone tends to be this - http://xkcd.com/513/

Rather than a simple matter of it just taking some time to establish attraction.  Also, as I pointed out, it is the people who talk about it like it is a bad thing that I am referring too; people who act like being just friends with someone is some sort of cruel torture when they 'obviously' deserve romantic attention from their preferred target.

Ha, my favourite quote about the 'friend zone' is, "Women aren't just machines you put kindness coins into until sex falls out." I find the concepts of 'friend zone' and 'nice guy' insidious. They seem jovial, but scratch the surface and you uncover a lot of REALLY twisted ideas about what a woman 'owes' a man.



Mental Magpie

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2012, 10:48:19 AM »
I realize that you said that this was in your experience, but what you said was inflammatory and quite rude, IMO, and makes a lot of assumptions about people who would talk about the "friend zone".

I am sorry you feel that way. 

I find the friend zone tends to be this - http://xkcd.com/513/

Rather than a simple matter of it just taking some time to establish attraction.  Also, as I pointed out, it is the people who talk about it like it is a bad thing that I am referring too; people who act like being just friends with someone is some sort of cruel torture when they 'obviously' deserve romantic attention from their preferred target.

Ha, my favourite quote about the 'friend zone' is, "Women aren't just machines you put kindness coins into until sex falls out." I find the concepts of 'friend zone' and 'nice guy' insidious. They seem jovial, but scratch the surface and you uncover a lot of REALLY twisted ideas about what a woman 'owes' a man.

I like that quote is well, I actually LOL'ed at it.

Again, though, I completely disagree.  Any one I've met in the friend zone is there because he's too shy, not because he has twisted ideas about women.
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TurtleDove

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #88 on: May 29, 2012, 11:55:06 AM »
I liked the cartoon and it described how I have always viewed the friend zone -- it's not that the men (or women) are jerks or that they are too shy, it is that the object of their affection does not have romantic interest in them.  It says nothing "bad" about the person in the "friend zone," and does not mean that a person is in the "friend zone" for every other person, just this one.  It simply means that an object of one's affection enjoys the "friend zoned" person as a friend but does not see them as a romantic interest, and no amount of overcoming shyness or being a jerk will change that, in my experience.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Paying compliments is rude?
« Reply #89 on: May 29, 2012, 12:02:58 PM »
I liked the cartoon and it described how I have always viewed the friend zone -- it's not that the men (or women) are jerks or that they are too shy, it is that the object of their affection does not have romantic interest in them.  It says nothing "bad" about the person in the "friend zone," and does not mean that a person is in the "friend zone" for every other person, just this one.  It simply means that an object of one's affection enjoys the "friend zoned" person as a friend but does not see them as a romantic interest, and no amount of overcoming shyness or being a jerk will change that, in my experience.

Yes, there is that friend zone, too.  I guess that is more how I see it, too, it's just that my friends tend to be in it because they're shy and won't tell the girl that they like her.
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