Frequently irritating others even though I try SOooooo hard not to do so

[rmk1]

My family of origin was never big on certain areas of teaching/learning/using manners and various social graces. As a young adult I frequently felt like I had been "raised by wolves" or something, compared to other people my age that I met at college, etc. -- I never had the right thing to wear, they more often knew what was expected at certain events than I did, they were better conversationalists, generally more graceful about dealing with life, more sophisticated and worldly and better connected, etc.

So I have worked really hard for like the past 18 or so years to try to "catch up" on these skills I didn't previously have. I think really hard, in advance, about what to say in certain situations, and rehearse things in my head, and generally giving a lot of attention to detail to my interactions to people, and when people do me favors I make doubly-sure to express my thankfulness, etc.

But people seem to get really irritated with me anyhow. Frequently. And I don't know why.

Some things I have been thinking about related to this are: Many of my old college friends are much more affluent than I or my family, and part of me wonders if they are just sometimes irritated to hear about lifestyles that are unfamiliar from their own. I appreciate having a variety of friends from a variety of backgrounds and with a variety of beliefs, but I sense this undercurrent in some conversations/interactions that they just would prefer not to be bothered hearing about something that is out of their well-trodden path, or something. They live in gated communities and go on expensive vacations, and I work temp jobs and get food stamps (I'm wildly generalizing here, but just trying to illustrate). Maybe I am out of their comfort zone just by being unlike them (although I am pretty not-shocking, I'm not into any kind of wild and crazy fringe living or something, nothing that eyebrow-raising). I also have recently been exploring a religion that is very slightly unusual and although I share about if it asked (we don't proselytize, one of the reasons I was appreciate of it), I don't talk about it constantly or anything like that. Yet people perceive it, and my interest in it, as so totally unrelateable somehow.

I am also pretty overweight, I wonder if they just don't want to be seen with me at events or if they think large people are disgusting (some people think this way, I hope people I know don't, but, maybe they secretly do).

Also I guess we are all a product of our experiences and although I care about these people a lot, I guess I just have some different values than some of them, probably also due in part to the extremely different lifestyles we lead.

This is another one of those questions where I am not sure exactly sure what I am asking for. One of those questions about navigating adulthood in general, when you're considered "different." But I have thought about these matters for a long time and I wonder why people I expect to have a positive or neutral reaction to me seem to have a negative one instead, and I'm surprised, or people I never thought would drop me on Facebook suddenly do so, etc. Like I said, I try really hard not to annoy (while also not necessarily doing/saying things just to fit in, I mean I am certainly different from many in my "crowd" in many ways that just can't be altered).

I have a new-ish "crowd" in my life too, and already I feel like some kind of clumsy street urchin in dealing with this new social group, when I go to this organization's events. So it's not just the old friends, the awkwardness/annoyingness I demonstrate to others seems to be chronic...

Despite all my efforts I often still feeling like I'm "doing it wrong" when it comes to social stuff. So, a very unspecific question. But-- any advice or comments?

[Harriet Jones]

Do you have a friend you can ask who's willing to be honest with you?  Random internet strangers may not be the best people to ask....

[Firecat]

I don't know you, so it's hard to say...do you have any real-life friends you could trust to be brutally honest with you? It's hard to hear sometimes, but sometimes it's helpful.

Or maybe it might help you to find more people who share more of your interests and experiences?

One other thing that occurs to me is that I've found that if I act as though I have something to apologize for, people will treat me as though I do have something to apologize for, as though there is something wrong with my lifestyle or choices. Whereas if I go into a situation with the attitude that I am comfortable with myself and my choices, and that there is nothing wrong with my choices and interests, and that others are perfectly free to make different choices, things tend to go better.

It might be that you're trying a little too hard in some ways, or you may be unintentionally sending the message that you don't feel you really belong in this group of friends, and they're reacting accordingly. I don't know if that helps, but it's something to think about.

[DrinkingTea (was Sneezy)]

You might want to be careful that you're not coming across more as a "learning experience" rather than a person.  As time goes on, you'll be able to better gauge what information comes across well and what doesn't.  In the meantime, volunteer less information and observe more.  Talk to a trusted friend or see if there is a local self help group or a counselor in your area that can help you break down what is happening.  Is there a local group that conducts charm school or etiquette classes? 

Good luck, I used to often find myself in these situations at work, too.  It does get better over time, though.

[Moray]

I agree that you should try to find someone who knows you IRL who won't pull any punches. People change as they get to different places in their lives, and that's not a bad thing, but it does mean that many friendships made as a result of going through school together will change or fade entirely.

For example, I was best friends with "Annie" from 8th grade on. We were inseparable in highschool and we stayed tight all through college. Then, we went out into the real world. She took a series of freelance gigs and ended up living in a commune of artists, writers, and general beatniks in a cramped apartment somewhere in Brooklyn (they're fantastic people, FWIW). I took a job in finance and have worked a standard 9-5 for all of my adult life. I dated around a bit and then spent 5 years in a long-term relationship that ended incredibly badly. She's kissed a couple of people, but never really dated because she just doesn't feel like it. I'm saving to buy a house. She's selling her worldly possessions (except for her iPod and laptop) to go "wander" for a year. We still adore each other, but our "spheres" no longer intersect very much. So, even though we still consider each other good, interesting people, we only speak maybe once or twice a year to catch up.

What I'm trying to say is that your old school buddies pulling away may have nothing to do with any "awkwardness" on your part. It may be entirely due to having different lives and interests. If you're feeling the same from your new crowd, I'd try to take a look and see if you really have a lot in common with these people. Friendships take work, but they should flow easily. Good luck.

[GSNW]

I agree wholeheartedly with 2 bits of advice above -

One, find an honest friend to speak to.  Things might not be as awkward as you imagine.
Two, act like you belong, and stop second-guessing yourself so much!

We have all encountered awkward people who have trouble socializing and fitting in.  Your post reminded me of a former colleague who was just horribly awkward in so many ways, but the difference between you and this woman was that I am positive she didn't have the first clue how strange her behavior was.  You seem to have self-awareness and care about making an effort to be polite, etc, which is why I said things might not be as bad as you imagine.  No one ever likes to feel like they don't fit in, so I really hope this changes for you!  Please keep us updated and good luck.

[Shopaholic]

You've gotten some very wise advice from the posters above me.

What I wanted to add is that I think you need to stop comparing yourself to others. When you feel confident about yourself people notice, and you will feel better when interacting with others.
Friendships are easier when people have similar lifestyles, but they're not the only reason people are friends.

Don't work on changing yourself to suit others (I'm guessing you don't walk around sticking pins into people or asking them about their Scrabble habits), work on finding friends that like you for who you are.

[Ceallach]

I used to think about myself the same way you do.   In fact, several years ago I could have written your post.  Because of issues in my upbringing I was socially awkward, and I felt this set me at a disadvantage.   I blamed that for my mistakes and struggled to overcome it.   But all that excessive introspection does is make you self-conscious and self-absorbed.    Plus, you might not realise it, but you're actually coming across in your post as judgmental of your friends.   I understand it comes from a place of self-defence and protection, but I wonder if that same attitude comes across to them.   Do you see them as elitist?  Do you think they're judging you for your weight?  Because that almost certainly affects the way you behave around them, and the way they therefore perceive you.   I used to be a bit like that and it was a protection mechanism.   I once decided a group of girls I worked with were shallow "plastics" (like from Mean Girls) because I felt excluded.  In reality, they were a perfectly nice, normal bunch of girls.  I just hadn't connected with them, which I blamed on them but in reality was because of my own behaviour and attitude.   When I changed my attitude and became less aloof and judgmental, I found them lovely.

Do you know what people like?   People who are confident.  People who are genuine.  People who show a genuine interest in the people and things around them.  People who have interesting things about themselves to share.    When I started to accept myself and everybody else around me, I found other people accepted me too.     Now I find myself perceived as a particularly confident, gracious person.   It's so weird for me to look back at who I was then and who I am now.  I'm not even sure when the transformation occurred.   

Of course I still had to work on social graces - it's important to take care with your appearance, personal hygiene, manners etc.   (For example, I cured my problem of  interjecting when people talk by forcing myself to truly listen and digest what they're saying, instead of thinking about what I was going to say next.  Suddenly I wasn't jumping in and annoying people).  I did lose weight, but that was an unrelated personal decision and part of resolving my health issues.  It certainly made me more confident though.   I think you need to work on your self-confidence and self-image in order to accept that you a likeable and worthy of being liked by those around you.

[cicero]

My family of origin was never big on certain areas of teaching/learning/using manners and various social graces. As a young adult I frequently felt like I had been "raised by wolves" or something, compared to other people my age that I met at college, etc. -- I never had the right thing to wear, they more often knew what was expected at certain events than I did, they were better conversationalists, generally more graceful about dealing with life, more sophisticated and worldly and better connected, etc.

So I have worked really hard for like the past 18 or so years to try to "catch up" on these skills I didn't previously have. I think really hard, in advance, about what to say in certain situations, and rehearse things in my head, and generally giving a lot of attention to detail to my interactions to people, and when people do me favors I make doubly-sure to express my thankfulness, etc.

But people seem to get really irritated with me anyhow. Frequently. And I don't know why.

Some things I have been thinking about related to this are: Many of my old college friends are much more affluent than I or my family, and part of me wonders if they are just sometimes irritated to hear about lifestyles that are unfamiliar from their own. I appreciate having a variety of friends from a variety of backgrounds and with a variety of beliefs, but I sense this undercurrent in some conversations/interactions that they just would prefer not to be bothered hearing about something that is out of their well-trodden path, or something. They live in gated communities and go on expensive vacations, and I work temp jobs and get food stamps (I'm wildly generalizing here, but just trying to illustrate). Maybe I am out of their comfort zone just by being unlike them (although I am pretty not-shocking, I'm not into any kind of wild and crazy fringe living or something, nothing that eyebrow-raising). I also have recently been exploring a religion that is very slightly unusual and although I share about if it asked (we don't proselytize, one of the reasons I was appreciate of it), I don't talk about it constantly or anything like that. Yet people perceive it, and my interest in it, as so totally unrelateable somehow.

I am also pretty overweight, I wonder if they just don't want to be seen with me at events or if they think large people are disgusting (some people think this way, I hope people I know don't, but, maybe they secretly do).

Also I guess we are all a product of our experiences and although I care about these people a lot, I guess I just have some different values than some of them, probably also due in part to the extremely different lifestyles we lead.

This is another one of those questions where I am not sure exactly sure what I am asking for. One of those questions about navigating adulthood in general, when you're considered "different." But I have thought about these matters for a long time and I wonder why people I expect to have a positive or neutral reaction to me seem to have a negative one instead, and I'm surprised, or people I never thought would drop me on Facebook suddenly do so, etc. Like I said, I try really hard not to annoy (while also not necessarily doing/saying things just to fit in, I mean I am certainly different from many in my "crowd" in many ways that just can't be altered).

I have a new-ish "crowd" in my life too, and already I feel like some kind of clumsy street urchin in dealing with this new social group, when I go to this organization's events. So it's not just the old friends, the awkwardness/annoyingness I demonstrate to others seems to be chronic...

Despite all my efforts I often still feeling like I'm "doing it wrong" when it comes to social stuff. So, a very unspecific question. But-- any advice or comments?

wow a lot of what you are saying sounds like me - the feeling that i am somehow doing something *wrong* socially and not understanding what is *right*. in my case, i think it had more to do with my *own* feelings of being overweight (even at times when i wasn't overweight), of being poorer than other families, of feeling *not as perky* as my friends, not as popular, etc. these feelings definitely carry over into adulthood. and looking at my family history, I think that i most probably have undiagnosed ADHD or some level of asperger's that probably contributed to all the above.

at any case, I decided at age 44, about 8 years ago, to "do my own thing". I don't worry too much about what others think.  what i *did* learn to do is read other people's faces and while i'm sure i miss some things, at least i am aware of taking notice. And when i'm not sure about things (what to wear, what to order in a restaurant, etc) i ask.

and you know - sometimes it isn't even *you*. you may have attached yourself to people who are just not nice.

[Bijou]

Quoting Ceallach:  "Do you know what people like?   People who are confident.  People who are genuine.  People who show a genuine interest in the people and things around them. " 

Because I also sometimes feel out of step (I do love my different drummer, though) these are just some things that popped into my head, FWIW
:
I think what Ceallach said in the above quote goes a long way toward having people think you are interesting and enjoying your company.  You have to be careful not to seem nosy when showing an interest in them, but I think people enjoy voluntarily sharing their ideas, and so forth.   

Gracefully finding a common ground helps.  For example, I tend to notice when people are wearing hand made jewelry because I did that for a long time and still like to see other people's work.  I might say they have a lovely necklace/bracelet/etc and ask if they made it themselves, comment on the stones, beads or whatever.  That often turns into an interesting conversation..

I feel socially awkward sometimes when people are talking about things that I am not informed about.  That's the learning time, time to be a good listener.  I can speak comfortably in front of a group (thanks to having been a trainer) but in my personal life I am pretty quiet around people I don't know well.  My husband is a social butterfly though, so I'm kind of lost in the background anyway.  I find if I don't know much about something I tend to fade from participation, when maybe I should be asking questions, or just asking them to elaborate on something they have said (without sounding like I just crawled out from under my rock...yes, I have a rock and sometimes I have just crawled out from under it.   ) 

On the other hand, if someone brings up a subject I know about (maybe collaging or making jewelry) I can be a brilliant conversationalist (well, I think so, anyway   ).

[newbiePA]

Lots of good advice has been given,  but I wonder if part of the problem is you "over preparing" for situations.  By having your conversation planned and practiced, you may sound a little unnatural.  Maybe try going into a situation without the whole event mentally planned out?  Be polite of course, but see what happens when you just let the event flow.

[mj]

My husband has a similar background and subsequent similar issues, rmk1.  He is fine around me but socializing, even with people he has known a long time, is awkward for him.  The biggest thing I've noticed is that his confidence with himself is the deal breaker.  He consistently shows his awkwardness and it in return some people find themselves uncomfortable around him. He tries really hard to talk with others, to the point that he practices, but it is very obvious that the conversation is not natural. 

[The Wild One, Forever]

It took me a long time to feel comfortable in my own skin, and I'm still not all the way there yet, so I can totally relate.

In my case, I'm pretty sure I', somewhere low on the Asberger and/or Autism scale, and I also have mild tourettes.  Throw in a learning disability and a large dose of ADD, and there I am!
However, I love my intelligence, sense of humor, and it never hurt that I was a pretty girl.  So, those are the positives. 

I took a job in a restaurant after having worked in corporate America since college, and the reason was, I needed free time in order to home school my son.  (We could have gotten by on my husband's income, but I can't imagine not doing some kind of work.)  Well, one of the side benefits for me was that I had to "fake it till I made it", and my position enabled me to become (behave) much more self-confidently and with much less social awkwardness over time.  Now, I can "think on my feet" in repartee with other, and am quite comfortable around others.

My suggestion to you is to get out there in various social settings, (you don't have to take it to the limit and work a thankless restaurant job however, LOL!)  You'd be surprised at how practice and just *being* around other people can help chip away at that awkwardness you feel. It's worth a try, anyway.  People used to despise me for no seeming reason whatsoever, high school was miserable, but I have come a long, long way.

(Not for nothing, but my current life as I know it is about to change.  My son and I are moving back up to Wisconsin, where the schools are better, and where I have ill relatives who need my help.  I am fortunate in that I already have a job waiting for me, doing similar to what I used to do.)

[Sharnita]

Not at the time but some time later fins a private moment whenyou can speak tot he one person who might be most willing to answer honestly nd say somethign like "I noticed when such and such was going on that I seemed to make people uncomfortable.  Why was that/how can I avoid that in the futuer?"

Do not suggest that they are responding to your weight, income, etc.

[TheVapors]

I think the previous posters have made some great points.

To me, reading through your post, it doesn't sound like a full-on etiquette situation. It sounds like.. growing into yourself. It sounds like being yourself, doing your own thing, and sometimes those things, those paths, don't intersect with others'.

You mention a lot of different points, so let me say that it's likely that it's not one thing in particular, but rather all of them. And I 100% absolutely do not mean that in a blamey way. I mean that we're all different people, and that's what makes the world go 'round. So, while you may think that people are dropping you on Facebook for one of these reasons, it really may not be any thing. It may be that they are different people as they grow, just as you are a different person as you grow.

I'm wondering with the Facebook mention, if you asked them what happened. Facebook is one of those things. Love it or hate it, people use it differently, and that means that some people who are excellent friends don't like each other on Facebook.

So, even within the areas you mentioned, there are going to be different reasons for different things.

I think it's good that you want to be aware of others' feelings. You don't want to be annoying, of course. But, at some point there has to be a bridge between just being yourself (confidently!), and being sure not to sneeze in someone's face. I know it sounds like a catch 22, but part of what seems to be making you more hung up on it, is the fact that you're thinking about it.

I think this is a people thing, more than it is an etiquette thing. I've known some very confident people who annoy the everloving crap out of me. But, they're still confident, and it's not like they're rude. I just don't care for them very much. I'm a pretty confident person, or aim to be, and I know for a very certain fact that I'm not universally liked. (And that's putting it mildly. I'm sure my guts have been hated.) But, I think there comes a time when it's best to not dwell on that fact.

It is hard to stay upbeat and stop second guessing when someone "drops" you. Yet, without mentally getting around that, we'd all be puddles of worry.

So, yes. Ask that one blunt friend. And, sure. Explore it a bit. But, if all that leads to is you feeling nervous about talking to every person you come across, then I'm going to suggest to attempt something different. Do what you love, mean to do positive things, atone for those times when they aren't positive, and find a way to accept that you aren't perfect, but that you're pretty darn awesome anyways. And know it.