Questions on inviting one half of the social unit update post 69

[MacadamiaNut]

OP, I think you should invite Olivia when you invite Paul.  Make sure he understands that all you will be doing is playing Risk and if Olivia wants to come and watch, that's fine, you are happy to see her, but that it is not a socializing type of party.

Then leave whether Olivia comes or not up to Paul.  That's probably the best you could do in this situation, IMO.  Specifically singling Olivia out as being "not invited" would not make for good relations.

[auntmeegs]

Olivia has indicated quite clearly that she has no interest.  She deliberately ruins the gaming experience for everyone by distracting the players.

Yet she still attends, indicating she wants to be there.  I think to tell her that she is NOT invited would be rude.  I think the OP can certainly ask her not to come, but I think it would be rude.

I think her reasons for wanting to be there are relevent here.  She is not coming becuase she wants to play the game.  She's coming because she doesn't want to be seperated from her husband for one evening (which is wierd but that’s a whole separate issue).  Why is her desire to attend for her own selfish reasons, despite the fact that she is not interested in the game and in fact actively tries to ruin it for everyone, more important than the actual purpose of the get-together. 

[Adelaide]

You say that the reason why you want to have a get-together is that you are moving off in a few weeks.

And you say that you like Olivia (apart from her annoying clinginess to Paul). She is your friend; you were her bridesmaid.

You also make it obvious that Olivia does not like to play Risk, has no interest in it at all.

So my question is: is Risk the best option for an activity for this get-together-before-you-move-off?
What is your main focus that you want, what is the priority. Do you want a "last chance at playing Risk with a few people" before you move, or a "last chance to get together with them" before you move?

I think this is the crux of the whole thing.

Having a Risk night as your "going-away" party, and excluding Olivia is a pretty clear statement that you are not interested in socializing with Olivia. And there won't be a lot of further interaction for a while to soften that impression.

I agree with Amava, it would be kinder to have a non-Risk party, if you can't stand playing with Olivia present.

And I'm in agreement with Siotehcat as well - you cannot invite one part of a couple to a party on the grounds that you're not using the best dishes. It's "not done". Particularly if you were close enough to the neglected partner to be a bridesmaid. It really does say, "We like him, we dislike her".

This isn't actually my "going away party". I've been doing various things with various people to tick off a "grad school bucket list" so to speak. I've been fishing with my grandfather and uncle, had a pizza party with my grandma (other size of the family) and cousins, went to church with church friends, had a crawfish boil with another aunt and uncle and cousins, etc. This will be about 4 people total and I still have a few weeks before I have to leave.  (Of course, this may not make any difference to the situation, etiquette-wise, I'm just letting everyone know this isn't my "last hoorah" or anything.)

[JenJay]

Is there someone else who enjoys the game and could be your 4th? Personally I wouldn't invite Paul. If he found out after the fact and expressed disappointment I'd be honest about why he wasn't invited.

"You know I adore Olivia, but she's made it very clear that she doesn't enjoy Risk but also doesn't enjoy being left home while you play. I thought the easiest solution for everyone would be to not mention it to you."

Paul and Olivia get to decide how they behave at gatherings, BUT, everyone else gets to decide whether or not to invite them. 

[Jones]

If it were something I felt obligated to attend--like a farewell party--but not something I enjoyed, like a game of some 4-person shooter on Xbox, I would be very happy if my friend said to me beforehand "Look, I know you don't like Rip Roarin' Shootin' 4, would you like to do something for my goodbye, just the two of us? I know that Mr Jones loves the game, I'd still like to have him over as our fourth, but I thought you would prefer if I met with you for lunch at XYZ Cafe the next day." I wouldn't be offended and, in fact, would be relieved to not be the person sitting and staring incomprehensively at the screen (or in OP's case, the board game), trying to start conversation and feel included when I'm not interested in the least in the thing everyone else focuses their attention on.

[Amava]

This isn't actually my "going away party". I've been doing various things with various people to tick off a "grad school bucket list" so to speak. I've been fishing with my grandfather and uncle, had a pizza party with my grandma (other size of the family) and cousins, went to church with church friends, had a crawfish boil with another aunt and uncle and cousins, etc. This will be about 4 people total and I still have a few weeks before I have to leave.  (Of course, this may not make any difference to the situation, etiquette-wise, I'm just letting everyone know this isn't my "last hoorah" or anything.)

In that case, I would invite someone else instead of Paul for the Risk, and look for a different time to do some goodbye-drinks or goodbye-dinner with Olivia and Paul.

Edited to add: I am only saying this because you made it clear that you /care/ about Olivia, that she is your friend, and therefore I assume that you still want to see her before you move and that you don't want to part on bad terms with her.

If you were only friends with Paul, I would say: of course it's ok to just invite Paul for Risk!

[Shoo]

I see nothing wrong with saying "Hey Paul, we are getting a foursome together to play tennis on Saturday.  Do you want to be our 4th".  He would then confirm with his wife that they had no plans for tennis on Saturday and go play tennis.  I see nothing different with an invitation to be a 4th in Risk.  This isn't an invitation to a party as much as it is an invitation to an activity.

I see nothing wrong with that, either.  What *would* be wrong is if your husband was invited and then told that you were not allowed to come and watch them play.  How would you feel about that?

[Amava]

I see nothing wrong with saying "Hey Paul, we are getting a foursome together to play tennis on Saturday.  Do you want to be our 4th".  He would then confirm with his wife that they had no plans for tennis on Saturday and go play tennis.  I see nothing different with an invitation to be a 4th in Risk.  This isn't an invitation to a party as much as it is an invitation to an activity.

I see nothing wrong with that, either.  What *would* be wrong is if your husband was invited and then told that you were not allowed to come and watch them play.  How would you feel about that?

I see what you mean, and I agree, but you are Shoo and Olivia is Olivia. If you would go to this event to watch your husband and your friends play Risk, you wouldn't be interrupting their game constantly and ruining it. If you want to be welcomed back at an event, you would make sure you behaved in a non-disruptive manner. Olivia has sort of caused this problem herself by her behaviour.

[hobish]

Olivia has indicated quite clearly that she has no interest.  She deliberately ruins the gaming experience for everyone by distracting the players.

Yet she still attends, indicating she wants to be there.  I think to tell her that she is NOT invited would be rude.  I think the OP can certainly ask her not to come, but I think it would be rude.

I think her reasons for wanting to be there are relevent here.  She is not coming becuase she wants to play the game.  She's coming because she doesn't want to be seperated from her husband for one evening (which is wierd but that’s a whole separate issue).  Why is her desire to attend for her own selfish reasons, despite the fact that she is not interested in the game and in fact actively tries to ruin it for everyone, more important than the actual purpose of the get-together.

That is my question, as well.

[TurtleDove]

Olivia has indicated quite clearly that she has no interest.  She deliberately ruins the gaming experience for everyone by distracting the players.

Yet she still attends, indicating she wants to be there.  I think to tell her that she is NOT invited would be rude.  I think the OP can certainly ask her not to come, but I think it would be rude.

I think her reasons for wanting to be there are relevent here.  She is not coming becuase she wants to play the game.  She's coming because she doesn't want to be seperated from her husband for one evening (which is wierd but that’s a whole separate issue).  Why is her desire to attend for her own selfish reasons, despite the fact that she is not interested in the game and in fact actively tries to ruin it for everyone, more important than the actual purpose of the get-together.

That is my question, as well.

I don't get the sense that Olivia is malicious in any way, or that people do not like her in general.  If the OP is fine with significantly harming her relationship with both Paul and Olivia, I think not inviting Olivia is fine.  I got the sense she does not want to harm the relationship with Paul or Olivia though.  It is not that Olivia's interests "win" here.  It is a choice the OP needs to make about what is more important - playing the game of Risk or having a good relationship with Paul and Olivia.

[Hmmmmm]

I see nothing wrong with saying "Hey Paul, we are getting a foursome together to play tennis on Saturday.  Do you want to be our 4th".  He would then confirm with his wife that they had no plans for tennis on Saturday and go play tennis.  I see nothing different with an invitation to be a 4th in Risk.  This isn't an invitation to a party as much as it is an invitation to an activity.

I see nothing wrong with that, either.  What *would* be wrong is if your husband was invited and then told that you were not allowed to come and watch them play.  How would you feel about that?

I'd be perfectly fine with him saying the group doesn't want an audience because it's distracting to the players. 

[Hmmmmm]

Olivia has indicated quite clearly that she has no interest.  She deliberately ruins the gaming experience for everyone by distracting the players.

Yet she still attends, indicating she wants to be there.  I think to tell her that she is NOT invited would be rude.  I think the OP can certainly ask her not to come, but I think it would be rude.

I think her reasons for wanting to be there are relevent here.  She is not coming becuase she wants to play the game.  She's coming because she doesn't want to be seperated from her husband for one evening (which is wierd but that’s a whole separate issue).  Why is her desire to attend for her own selfish reasons, despite the fact that she is not interested in the game and in fact actively tries to ruin it for everyone, more important than the actual purpose of the get-together.

That is my question, as well.

I don't get the sense that Olivia is malicious in any way, or that people do not like her in general.  If the OP is fine with significantly harming her relationship with both Paul and Olivia, I think not inviting Olivia is fine.  I got the sense she does not want to harm the relationship with Paul or Olivia though.  It is not that Olivia's interests "win" here.  It is a choice the OP needs to make about what is more important - playing the game of Risk or having a good relationship with Paul and Olivia.

I'm really botheredby the idea that not inviting Olivia would cause permanent damage to thei relationship.  The OP stated that Paul is a childhood friend.  The OP is inviting Paul to an activity, not a scal only event.  I think the idea that I'm really bothered by is the concept that it is always wrong of a female to invite a married male to an activity without the spouse.  That because this is a co-ed activity, both husband and wife should be invited.

If the OP was a male, I don't think any one would question the idea of Paul being invited to participate in an activity with his male buddy without his wife being invited.  Because if it was, then guys poker night wouldn't be such a cliche.  Or if the female OP wanted to invite Olivia only to play Risk, no one would bat a eye if Paul wasn't a Risk player.

Would it be the same if Paul was married to John?  Would John be required to be invited to an activity he doesn't participate in just because he is married to Paul?   

[SiotehCat]

Olivia has indicated quite clearly that she has no interest.  She deliberately ruins the gaming experience for everyone by distracting the players.

Yet she still attends, indicating she wants to be there.  I think to tell her that she is NOT invited would be rude.  I think the OP can certainly ask her not to come, but I think it would be rude.

I think her reasons for wanting to be there are relevent here.  She is not coming becuase she wants to play the game.  She's coming because she doesn't want to be seperated from her husband for one evening (which is wierd but that’s a whole separate issue).  Why is her desire to attend for her own selfish reasons, despite the fact that she is not interested in the game and in fact actively tries to ruin it for everyone, more important than the actual purpose of the get-together.

That is my question, as well.

I don't get the sense that Olivia is malicious in any way, or that people do not like her in general.  If the OP is fine with significantly harming her relationship with both Paul and Olivia, I think not inviting Olivia is fine.  I got the sense she does not want to harm the relationship with Paul or Olivia though.  It is not that Olivia's interests "win" here.  It is a choice the OP needs to make about what is more important - playing the game of Risk or having a good relationship with Paul and Olivia.

I'm really botheredby the idea that not inviting Olivia would cause permanent damage to thei relationship.  The OP stated that Paul is a childhood friend.  The OP is inviting Paul to an activity, not a scal only event.  I think the idea that I'm really bothered by is the concept that it is always wrong of a female to invite a married male to an activity without the spouse.  That because this is a co-ed activity, both husband and wife should be invited.

If the OP was a male, I don't think any one would question the idea of Paul being invited to participate in an activity with his male buddy without his wife being invited.  Because if it was, then guys poker night wouldn't be such a cliche.  Or if the female OP wanted to invite Olivia only to play Risk, no one would bat a eye if Paul wasn't a Risk player.

Would it be the same if Paul was married to John?  Would John be required to be invited to an activity he doesn't participate in just because he is married to Paul?

If the gathering is Co-ed, you cannot exclude half of a social unit. Unless, like a previous poster said, it is a work function with spouses not invited.

Poker night is fine because its men only. If the OP wanted to invite a Female Friend, but was also going to invite men, then it would be wrong not to invite Female Friends spouse. The rules are the same.

If Paul was married to John, you still can't exclude half of a social unit. The rules stay the same.

This has nothing to do with the OP being a female, except for the fact that it makes the gathering a co-ed one.

[ShadesOfGrey]

I'm suprised by this.  I agree that in most instances a social unit should be invited.  Except when the invitation is for an activity that only one part of the social unit participates in.

I'm engaged in a cooking/foodie type organization.  My husband does not participate except for one event per year.  I'm invited all the time to events and dinners that are attended by both men and women.  Sometimes couples attend together, but in most instances it is just one half of a couple.  An example:  On Saturday, an event is being hosted at the home of one of the group.  He sent me a email asking if I'd like to join.  He's met my DH a few times, but there was no mention of his joining because he would not enjoy spending the day learning to make what we will be making.  Or last year, I hosted a tamale making class at my home.  I invited just those people who would enjoy the class, not their spouses who would have been bored silly spending 10 hours making tamales. 

My DH plays tennis.  I do not.  He attends tennis activities that are co-ed frequently.  Tennis is the activity.  When the neighborhood tennis group gets together for a social activity that doesn't involve tennis, then the non-tennis playing spouses are invited. 

I see nothing wrong with saying "Hey Paul, we are getting a foursome together to play tennis on Saturday.  Do you want to be our 4th".  He would then confirm with his wife that they had no plans for tennis on Saturday and go play tennis.  I see nothing different with an invitation to be a 4th in Risk.  This isn't an invitation to a party as much as it is an invitation to an activity.

exactly.

[MacadamiaNut]

Olivia has indicated quite clearly that she has no interest.  She deliberately ruins the gaming experience for everyone by distracting the players.

Yet she still attends, indicating she wants to be there.  I think to tell her that she is NOT invited would be rude.  I think the OP can certainly ask her not to come, but I think it would be rude.

I think her reasons for wanting to be there are relevent here.  She is not coming becuase she wants to play the game.  She's coming because she doesn't want to be seperated from her husband for one evening (which is wierd but that’s a whole separate issue).  Why is her desire to attend for her own selfish reasons, despite the fact that she is not interested in the game and in fact actively tries to ruin it for everyone, more important than the actual purpose of the get-together.

That is my question, as well.

I don't get the sense that Olivia is malicious in any way, or that people do not like her in general.  If the OP is fine with significantly harming her relationship with both Paul and Olivia, I think not inviting Olivia is fine.  I got the sense she does not want to harm the relationship with Paul or Olivia though.  It is not that Olivia's interests "win" here.  It is a choice the OP needs to make about what is more important - playing the game of Risk or having a good relationship with Paul and Olivia.

I'm really botheredby the idea that not inviting Olivia would cause permanent damage to thei relationship.  The OP stated that Paul is a childhood friend.  The OP is inviting Paul to an activity, not a scal only event.  I think the idea that I'm really bothered by is the concept that it is always wrong of a female to invite a married male to an activity without the spouse.  That because this is a co-ed activity, both husband and wife should be invited.

If the OP was a male, I don't think any one would question the idea of Paul being invited to participate in an activity with his male buddy without his wife being invited.  Because if it was, then guys poker night wouldn't be such a cliche.  Or if the female OP wanted to invite Olivia only to play Risk, no one would bat a eye if Paul wasn't a Risk player.

Would it be the same if Paul was married to John?  Would John be required to be invited to an activity he doesn't participate in just because he is married to Paul?

Yes, if all the details were the same as the OP, then John should be invited because 1) John desires to come and 2) John is friends with OP too and they all appear to be part of the same social circle.

I don't see it as a male/female thing.  It's more about the fact that it is well-known that Olivia wants to be near Paul all the time.  If this were guys poker or something, I imagine that Paul would just eventually get booted from the invite list because of Olivia.  That's usually how these things pan out in the end.  But OP is not willing to not invite Paul for the game.  She does not have a whole lot of options.  It's invite Paul and Olivia or don't invite either of them.


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