Author Topic: Is it wrong to use another kid's opinion UPDATE Pg. 4  (Read 16925 times)

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gramma dishes

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I wouldn't mention it.  It sounds from your description of the event that the comment made by the other child did sink in with your daughter and gave her pause.  She did not go ahead and start talking about how Kayla was her very special friend and they go everywhere and do everything together  ... blah, blah, blah.  She knew to stop and say nothing. 

If the subject comes up again sometime, you might just casually ask her (privately of course) what it is about Kayla that she likes?  You might be surprised at her answers.  Or she might be surprised that she can't come up with any.

Hmmmmm

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Your DD will learn on her own so I wouldn't spend too much time on this.  At the most, you might ask DD if she ever feels the way sweet little sister feels about Kayla. 

You never know.  Your DD could be hanging out with Kayla because she instinctively sees Kayla's actions as a result of insecurities and if forgiving of those traits because of that.

I'll never forget my 8 yr old correcting me because I was complaining about the neighbor child and her saying, "mom, she just does that because her mom sleeps all the time and never wants to do stuff and she feels bad because we all have good moms".  A year later her mom had to be removed from the home because of her drug addiction and a year after that died from a drug overdose.  The kids saw a lot more that was going on in their friend's lives than we did as adults.

grannyclampettjr

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I wouldn't mention it.  It sounds from your description of the event that the comment made by the other child did sink in with your daughter and gave her pause.  She did not go ahead and start talking about how Kayla was her very special friend and they go everywhere and do everything together  ... blah, blah, blah.  She knew to stop and say nothing. 

If the subject comes up again sometime, you might just casually ask her (privately of course) what it is about Kayla that she likes?  You might be surprised at her answers.  Or she might be surprised that she can't come up with any.

Not a parent, but this is exactly what I wanted to say. 

bopper

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I would use what the angelkids said about Kayla and talk to your daughter.

"DD, you know how AKs said that Kayla always said she did something better than other people?  I noticed that too.  Everybody does that a little bit, but it seems like Kayla does it every time you talk about something you did.  It makes me sad because sometimes she says something you do, like swimming, is lame.  But swimming isn't lame. Remember how we watched Michael Phelps and Missy Franklin swimming in the olympics? Not lame.  What do you think when she says things like that?"
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 11:57:15 PM by bopper »

weeblewobble

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Greencat, honestly, I've tried re-direction and bean-dipping and telling her, "The size of the house isn't important, it's how happy you are when you live there." But I'm loathe to flat-out call one of DD's friends rude.  I'm not sure why, it just feels strange correcting someone else's child unless they're being destructive or in danger. You're probably right, I'm not serving as a very good example for DD.

I don't want to spend Kayla's whole visit correcting her behavior or contradicting her one-upmanship. I have addressed the one-upping with DD, who once asked why Kayla was always comparing their stuff.  I simply told her that sometimes when people are unhappy, they have to make themselves feel better by trying to feel like they have more or have something better.  And I have taken to doing damage control after Kayla leaves, especially when she says things about our financial situation or DD's activities - particularly when they're not true.  When Kayla said her dad had a better job, I assured DD that daddy had a very good job and -with the additional income mom makes- that we had money for everything we need.  When Kayla called swimming lame, I told DD that we had her in swimming lessons because the swim teacher wants to perfect her strokes, not because she doesn't swim well.  The swimming teacher coaches a swim team, and if DD wants to join, the teacher has assured us she is welcome.

The more I think about this, the more I think I should keep my opinion to myself, but stop allowing Kayla over to the house.  Thanks, guys.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 12:19:15 AM by weeblewobble »

Slartibartfast

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I would not bring in the other kids' opinions. First off, it's not clear how much your daughter would respect their opinions over her own and her liking for Kayla. You could just end up turning her off of the new kids.

I'd be afraid of this too.  I'm guessing Kayla's usual approach is to put down everything that doesn't show her in a good light - and if she learns your DD thinks the new kids don't like her, she'll be putting down the new kids as well.  If your DD is still desperate to get Kayla to like her, Kayla could present a "choose them or me" ultimatum and your DD may go with her.  Then you'd still have the Kayla problem plus you'd lose out on a potential friendship with the new kids.

JoyinVirginia

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Younger dd had a friend like Kayla. I finally told dd that I was tired of listening to her friend and she could not come over to our house to play. I also told dd that her friend thought she knew a lot, but she really didn't know much about how to be polite. I did let dd invite her to a birthday party once, in a group she was tolerable.

Sophia

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I think you should get this book and have her read it.  It might go over better being from a book than from another child. 

Queen Bees and Wannabes: Helping Your Daughter Survive Cliques, Gossip, Boyfriends, and the New Realities of Girl World by Rosalind Wiseman

If I remember right she had a whole chapter on the relationship like your daughter's with Kayla.  She said that girls like Kayla know when their victim/friend is about to dump them and they make the grand gesture that you talk about. 

One thing that broke my heart in the book was that she talked about being in an abusive relationship for several years starting late High School.  Afterward she got out, she tried to figure out where she got the idea that it was OK for someone to abuse her.  She came from a loving family.  Then she realized it was her friendship with the Mean Girls.  She learned that she had tolerate abuse to keep the friendship. 

GrammarNerd

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My DS (now 13) had a friend like this.  If he didn't do something, it was lame.  He would diss whatever DS was good at.  Sounds soooo familiar.  He sort of got sick of the kid, and we just made it more difficult for them to get together.  Then after a year or so, he got involved with some other kids, and they decided to play a little 'joke' on DS.  Except they really used some bad judgement and got in BIG trouble.  His mom called me to apologize and then I laid out the whole thing, and how it had come to that.  (She had tried to intervene about something once, but the kid just got mad at DS b/c the kid 'blamed' ds for him getting in trouble with the kid's own actions.) She was shocked.  And we haven't had much to do with them since, except superficially.

DS has another friend like that now.  They do a sport together, and if DS learns a new skill, this kid has to do it too.  Once the other kid was even told by the coach to NOT do something, and he had to try it anyway.  The coach called him on it and asked him why he did it, and he gave a lame 'I don't know.'  Once time we were having a conversation, and I passed on how a certain coach gave DS a compliment, and this other kid IMMEDIATELY jumped in and had to one-up the compliment.  Big time.  It was so blatant and vehement that it was almost laughable.   I mean, the kid already leads a very privileged life...only child, has pretty much whatever toys/gaming systems/clothes he wants.  It's really annoying how he has to still always be the best/do the best/have the best.  Why can't he let other kids have their glory moments/skills/accomplishments too? 

I've mentioned the one-upping to DS before, and he'd already noticed it. Now, DS will tell me something that OK said, like:
"OK said he's going to go to the moon." 
I'll respond, "Of course he is." 
"OK is going to a camp to play soccer with the Olympic team." 
"Of course he is." 
"OK has a new air hockey table in his basement."
"Of course he does."

The first time I said that, he asked me what I meant, and I explained that it was just one other thing that he had to brag about; how he always had to do something better or have 'more' than other people.  Now, it's kind of a game with us and if DS tell me some new outrageous boast about OK, I'll just use the "Of course he is/does" line and DS will grin at me.  He gets it now. 

For your Kayla, OP, I wonder what would happen if, the next time you had her over, you call her on it by using the tactic that maybe she should go home because it doesn't seem like she's very happy visiting you.  Like:

"I have better toys at my house."
"My house is a lot bigger than yours."

You: "Oh, Kayla, I think maybe you should go home now.  It doesn't seem like you're very happy here right now."
"I'm fine.  I'll stay."
"No, I think we'll end this visit now.  You keep talking about how you don't like our home very much, so I don't want to make you stay here any longer.  Let's get your things."  And don't back down.  Let her know that actions (words) have consequences.

For the rest of it, I'm torn over whether you mention it or not.  Actually, though, I think this may be one of those times where you should have an idea of what you want to say, and then just wait for the opportunity to present itself.  Something may happen where it will just open up the conversation, and then you can be ready.  In the meantime, cultivate friendships with the other kids.  If your DD asks about Kayla, then I don't think 8 is too young to tell her that there are certain etiquette standards; if someone can't play nice, then she doesn't get invited back.  If she criticizes your home/posessions or bullies/bosses you around, then she dosn't get invited back.  Prepare your DD that she doesn't have to take this, and it's not acceptable behavior to act like that.  And I'm sure the last thing you want is for your DD to start emulating Kayla b/c she thinks it's OK!

gramma dishes

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...   If your DD asks about Kayla, then I don't think 8 is too young to tell her that there are certain etiquette standards; if someone can't play nice, then she doesn't get invited back.  If she criticizes your home/posessions or bullies/bosses you around, then she dosn't get invited back.  Prepare your DD that she doesn't have to take this, and it's not acceptable behavior to act like that.  And I'm sure the last thing you want is for your DD to start emulating Kayla b/c she thinks it's OK!

Good point!

TootsNYC

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I don't want to spend Kayla's whole visit correcting her behavior or contradicting her one-upmanship.

The other tactic that I would try is NOT correcting her. Instead, reflect it. Amplify it.

Make it really clear.

"Oh, hmm," (absently !!!) "your house is so much better than ours? That's nice, dear."

Or even, "Of course it is, dear."

artk2002

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I don't want to spend Kayla's whole visit correcting her behavior or contradicting her one-upmanship.

I know you don't want to, and I don't blame you, but... if you're going to let her into your house, I think that you must address it. Otherwise you send the message to your daughter that it's kinda-sorta ok. Actions speak louder than words and if you tell your DD that this is bad, but then don't address it with Kayla, what happens to your credibility?
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

The703

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OP - I was your daughter except I was 12. I had a friend in middle school exactly like Kayla. She wasn't well liked by the other kids because she was so stuck on herself. I spent alot of my time defending her and was actually "grounded" from her for a short period of time. I really think that you just need to let your daughter figure it out on her own. Keep encouraging the friendships with the nice neighbor girls as Kayla will eventually be the cause of her own downfall, but will probably blame others.

I reconnected with my "Kayla" a couple of years ago on FB (I hadn't seen nor spoken to her in 13-14 years and she had no idea where I was in life). We aren't friends and in fact I blocked her for awhile. After 20 years she actually told me that she thought I was jealous of her. I laughed. She hadn't changed and she never will.



rashea

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OP, since your daughter is getting older, she might do well with a "pro/con" list to help her sort out her own feelings. I worked with a kid once who had a friend who was jerking her around, and we ended up with blue and yellow stars on a chart. Everytime something good and positive happened in the friendship, she put a yellow star on the page. When something negative happened, she put a blue star. She'd also write what had happened, at least enough to remember. After a month, it really helped her to average out the ups and downs of the relationship and start looking at the situation in a new light.

Oh, and I still do the same thing with relationships I have, though minus the stars.
"Manners change, principles don't. It's about treating people with consideration, respect and honesty." Peter Post

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bopper

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If you decide to distance your daughter from Kayla, you could start by not suggesting play dates.
If her mom suggests one, you could say "Oh, I am surprised Kayla wants to come over! She is always saying how everything is better at her house."