Is it wrong to use another kid's opinion UPDATE Pg. 4

[Cami]

UPDATE: Well, Kayla has informed DD that they are no longer friends. 

DD said the girls were riding the bus home from school and the following conversation happened:

Kayla: My class is SO going to win the school's Especially Awesome Good Behavior Award for Best Class this week.  We have 70 points.

DD: But my class has 90 points.

Kayla: NO YOU DON'T.

Nice Neighbor Kid Brother pops his head up over their bus seat:  Yeah, they do.  I looked at the board before we left school.  And my class has 85.  Your class is in third place.

Kayla: That's it. DD, we're not friends any more.

DD: OK, then.

We'll see how long that lasts, but for now, DD isn't that concerned.  She's out playing with 5 or 6 kids from the neighborhood and having a good time.

Whoa. My jaw is hanging open because I just had a very similar conversation at work yesterday with a 60 year old coworker of mine. So the idea that kids like that can grow out of that behavior... well, my coworker did not.  And I have to say that working with a 60 year old version of Kayla is honestly making me consider leaving my company.

[GrammarNerd]

Ahh....so the bus incident WAS part of the escalation!  Already!  Methinks Kayla is starting to feel a wee bit threatened! 

As a person who was NEVER 'in' with the popular crowd, is it wrong that I'm getting some vicarious enjoyment out of seeing Kayla get a little comeuppance?  Ex: one time in the middle of my English class in Jr. High, a girl turned around in her seat and asked me, "Do you have acne?"  Seriously?  And no, I didn't have the horrible stuff, but I had the typical teenage zits from the oily face.  But geez, who says something like that, and in front of other people?  The intent could only be to embarrass or ridicule someone.  That just sounds so much like what Kayla would do in a few years.  So yeah, I am SO happy for your DD that she's being empowered by you and those awesome neighbor kids and isn't letting Kayla get to her.

Bravo!!! (stands up and cheers)

Just wondering....is Kayla's mom a 'mean girl' too and that's where Kayla learned it from?  Or is Kayla one of these kids who is ignored at home so she feels like she has to make herself be the best at everything in order to get validation that she's important?

[weeblewobble]

UPDATE: Well, Kayla has informed DD that they are no longer friends. 

DD said the girls were riding the bus home from school and the following conversation happened:

Kayla: My class is SO going to win the school's Especially Awesome Good Behavior Award for Best Class this week.  We have 70 points.

DD: But my class has 90 points.

Kayla: NO YOU DON'T.

Nice Neighbor Kid Brother pops his head up over their bus seat:  Yeah, they do.  I looked at the board before we left school.  And my class has 85.  Your class is in third place.

Kayla: That's it. DD, we're not friends any more.

DD: OK, then.

We'll see how long that lasts, but for now, DD isn't that concerned.  She's out playing with 5 or 6 kids from the neighborhood and having a good time.

Whoa. My jaw is hanging open because I just had a very similar conversation at work yesterday with a 60 year old coworker of mine. So the idea that kids like that can grow out of that behavior... well, my coworker did not.  And I have to say that working with a 60 year old version of Kayla is honestly making me consider leaving my company.

Is it wrong that some morbid part of my brain would like to see a transcript of that conversation?  It would be like looking into the future.

[Winterlight]

Sounds like this could be good for both girls. DD isn't dependent on Kayla anymore, and Kayla might grow up a bit when she realizes she's alienating all her friends.

[weeblewobble]

Ahh....so the bus incident WAS part of the escalation!  Already!  Methinks Kayla is starting to feel a wee bit threatened! 

As a person who was NEVER 'in' with the popular crowd, is it wrong that I'm getting some vicarious enjoyment out of seeing Kayla get a little comeuppance?  Ex: one time in the middle of my English class in Jr. High, a girl turned around in her seat and asked me, "Do you have acne?"  Seriously?  And no, I didn't have the horrible stuff, but I had the typical teenage zits from the oily face.  But geez, who says something like that, and in front of other people?  The intent could only be to embarrass or ridicule someone.  That just sounds so much like what Kayla would do in a few years.  So yeah, I am SO happy for your DD that she's being empowered by you and those awesome neighbor kids and isn't letting Kayla get to her.

Bravo!!! (stands up and cheers)

Just wondering....is Kayla's mom a 'mean girl' too and that's where Kayla learned it from?  Or is Kayla one of these kids who is ignored at home so she feels like she has to make herself be the best at everything in order to get validation that she's important?

Her parents are really nice.  We're not close or anything, but they're always friendly and very kind to DD when we see them. And they're pretty involved with their kids, so I don't think Kayla is being ignored.  I think this is just how she establishes herself socially. 

[Sophia]

I dearly remember when my Kayla got her come-up-ence.  In middle school she'd told me she couldn't be my friend because I was a "stepping stone on her ladder to popularlity".  In high school we were both on a church youth group ski trip.  4 kids to a room.  I had two close friends, so we all put each other on our selected cards.  One of the adults apologized to me that they'd had to put myKayla in my room because we'd had the empty spot and absolutely positively no one put her name down.

[Cleargleam]

I dearly remember when my Kayla got her come-up-ence.  In middle school she'd told me she couldn't be my friend because I was a "stepping stone on her ladder to popularlity".  In high school we were both on a church youth group ski trip.  4 kids to a room.  I had two close friends, so we all put each other on our selected cards.  One of the adults apologized to me that they'd had to put myKayla in my room because we'd had the empty spot and absolutely positively no one put her name down.

I don't see how that constituted comeuppance for Kayla - you all got stuck with her. And rooming with a viper like that can't have been fun, even if the other three of you all had each other's back as much as possible. 

[NyaChan]

I dearly remember when my Kayla got her come-up-ence.  In middle school she'd told me she couldn't be my friend because I was a "stepping stone on her ladder to popularlity".  In high school we were both on a church youth group ski trip.  4 kids to a room.  I had two close friends, so we all put each other on our selected cards.  One of the adults apologized to me that they'd had to put myKayla in my room because we'd had the empty spot and absolutely positively no one put her name down.

I don't see how that constituted comeuppance for Kayla - you all got stuck with her. And rooming with a viper like that can't have been fun, even if the other three of you all had each other's back as much as possible. 

I think the point of the story was to show that this mean girl eventually ended up with no friends while Sophia had good friends.

[weeblewobble]

And who calls someone a "skipping stone on her ladder to popularity?"  That girl must have read a LOT of Judy Blume.

("Just As Long As We're Together" - scarred me for life.)

[Sophia]

I dearly remember when my Kayla got her come-up-ence.  In middle school she'd told me she couldn't be my friend because I was a "stepping stone on her ladder to popularlity".  In high school we were both on a church youth group ski trip.  4 kids to a room.  I had two close friends, so we all put each other on our selected cards.  One of the adults apologized to me that they'd had to put myKayla in my room because we'd had the empty spot and absolutely positively no one put her name down.

I don't see how that constituted comeuppance for Kayla - you all got stuck with her. And rooming with a viper like that can't have been fun, even if the other three of you all had each other's back as much as possible. 

I think the point of the story was to show that this mean girl eventually ended up with no friends while Sophia had good friends.

Oh, yes, and she was miserable, and grumpy.  I didn't say anything to anyone (I wasn't that mean), but I think she figured out that she had been excluded.  I can't quite explain it, but I had lots of social power that trip. 

[gramma dishes]

...    I think she figured out that she had been excluded.  I can't quite explain it, but I had lots of social power that trip.

Of course she figured it out!!  I'm reasonably sure that she wouldn't put down the names of any "stepping stones" on her list of desirable roommates, so the fact that she ended up with the three of you instead pretty much told her that no one she preferred had chosen her!!

[Cami]

UPDATE: Well, Kayla has informed DD that they are no longer friends. 

DD said the girls were riding the bus home from school and the following conversation happened:

Kayla: My class is SO going to win the school's Especially Awesome Good Behavior Award for Best Class this week.  We have 70 points.

DD: But my class has 90 points.

Kayla: NO YOU DON'T.

Nice Neighbor Kid Brother pops his head up over their bus seat:  Yeah, they do.  I looked at the board before we left school.  And my class has 85.  Your class is in third place.

Kayla: That's it. DD, we're not friends any more.

DD: OK, then.

We'll see how long that lasts, but for now, DD isn't that concerned.  She's out playing with 5 or 6 kids from the neighborhood and having a good time.

Whoa. My jaw is hanging open because I just had a very similar conversation at work yesterday with a 60 year old coworker of mine. So the idea that kids like that can grow out of that behavior... well, my coworker did not.  And I have to say that working with a 60 year old version of Kayla is honestly making me consider leaving my company.

Is it wrong that some morbid part of my brain would like to see a transcript of that conversation?  It would be like looking into the future.

Ugh. Sorry, if I relive that conversation, I'll just get irritated all over again.

My take on it is that the older version of Kayla has gotten both  more persistent and possibly, sneakier. If she gives up on her game for now, she'll just revisit the issue over and over and over. Even if it means following me around the building - - I am seriously NOT kidding. I ask her to leave my office, she comes back. I leave my own office, she follows me. I ask/tell her to let it go and she tells me, "Sorry, can't. We're going to hash this out until you see I'm better than you are and admit it." I close my door and she will stand outside it and still keep talking. She is eagle eyed in terms of watching and waiting for people to make the smallest mistake and then she pounces on it because it's an opportunity to point out how she's so much better -- and if you point out how she's made a mistake of her own, she flounces, then stomps around until she can come back with something else. It's like having someone constantly watching over your shoulder to pounce. And she's also gotten sneakier in that she knows better than to do it in front of our boss because he'd call her out on it, but won't call people out on behavior he does not witness for himself.

In some ways, if I disengage, I can feel sad for how pathetic she is in her need to be superior. Mostly though, I just have to control the urge to smack her hard, especially when she gets this... smirk on her face when she's sure she's "won" in some way.

UGHUGHUGH!

[gramma dishes]

Time to get a voice activated tape recorder!   

[Piratelvr1121]

I've told neighborhood kids, "You don't treat SuperMartianRobotDaughter well, so I'm not going to let you play here. It's a fair thing to say. But you might get a call from Kayla's mom and need to have a conversation with her. The thing is that kids are very literal and are not going to get any more than what you say out of a conversation. If you say your daughter is unavailable, all she's probably hearing is that your daughter is unavailable, NOT that you don't want her to play at your house. You have to be explicit and literal with kids if you want them to know what you're talking about. They don't make the inferences adults make.

Last year, we were throwing a birthday party for the oldest Pirateboy, or rather he had one friend over for a sleepover.  Before the sun went down I had the boys and the friend tie-dying shirts on the front porch. A boy who had repeatedly bullied both of my boys came up to our porch and expected to be invited.  "I won't eat anything, I just want to watch!" I told him that when someone is mean to others, they have no right to expect an invitation to their parties.

[camlan]

UPDATE: Well, Kayla has informed DD that they are no longer friends. 

DD said the girls were riding the bus home from school and the following conversation happened:

Kayla: My class is SO going to win the school's Especially Awesome Good Behavior Award for Best Class this week.  We have 70 points.

DD: But my class has 90 points.

Kayla: NO YOU DON'T.

Nice Neighbor Kid Brother pops his head up over their bus seat:  Yeah, they do.  I looked at the board before we left school.  And my class has 85.  Your class is in third place.

Kayla: That's it. DD, we're not friends any more.

DD: OK, then.

We'll see how long that lasts, but for now, DD isn't that concerned.  She's out playing with 5 or 6 kids from the neighborhood and having a good time.

Whoa. My jaw is hanging open because I just had a very similar conversation at work yesterday with a 60 year old coworker of mine. So the idea that kids like that can grow out of that behavior... well, my coworker did not.  And I have to say that working with a 60 year old version of Kayla is honestly making me consider leaving my company.

Is it wrong that some morbid part of my brain would like to see a transcript of that conversation?  It would be like looking into the future.

Ugh. Sorry, if I relive that conversation, I'll just get irritated all over again.

My take on it is that the older version of Kayla has gotten both  more persistent and possibly, sneakier. If she gives up on her game for now, she'll just revisit the issue over and over and over. Even if it means following me around the building - - I am seriously NOT kidding. I ask her to leave my office, she comes back. I leave my own office, she follows me. I ask/tell her to let it go and she tells me, "Sorry, can't. We're going to hash this out until you see I'm better than you are and admit it." I close my door and she will stand outside it and still keep talking. She is eagle eyed in terms of watching and waiting for people to make the smallest mistake and then she pounces on it because it's an opportunity to point out how she's so much better -- and if you point out how she's made a mistake of her own, she flounces, then stomps around until she can come back with something else. It's like having someone constantly watching over your shoulder to pounce. And she's also gotten sneakier in that she knows better than to do it in front of our boss because he'd call her out on it, but won't call people out on behavior he does not witness for himself.

In some ways, if I disengage, I can feel sad for how pathetic she is in her need to be superior. Mostly though, I just have to control the urge to smack her hard, especially when she gets this... smirk on her face when she's sure she's "won" in some way.

UGHUGHUGH!

If she follows you around the building, couldn't you "accidentally" wind up by your boss's office every time she pulls this?