Is it wrong to use another kid's opinion UPDATE Pg. 4

[GrammarNerd]

For Cami: Can you get an iPod touch and record her when she starts in with following you around or doing the 'I'm better than you' thing?  Let her plainly see that you're recording her.  Even tell her you're going to do it, so she can't say you didn't warn her.  She probably won't like it, so you could get rid of her that way.  And if you don't get rid of her, then you'll have it on video that you've asked her to leave you alone and she's not (and that it's not work related).  Bonus points if she utters one of her 'I'm better than you' things for the recorder.  If she actually follows you, you'll have it on video that she's following you, and that's kind of stalker-ish.  Then would your boss believe it if he saw the video?

[Cami]

For Cami: Can you get an iPod touch and record her when she starts in with following you around or doing the 'I'm better than you' thing?  Let her plainly see that you're recording her.  Even tell her you're going to do it, so she can't say you didn't warn her.  She probably won't like it, so you could get rid of her that way.  And if you don't get rid of her, then you'll have it on video that you've asked her to leave you alone and she's not (and that it's not work related).  Bonus points if she utters one of her 'I'm better than you' things for the recorder.  If she actually follows you, you'll have it on video that she's following you, and that's kind of stalker-ish.  Then would your boss believe it if he saw the video?

Unfortunately, we are not allowed to record each other at work due to a host of confidentiality issues.

If she follows you around the building, couldn't you "accidentally" wind up by your boss's office every time she pulls this?

My boss is out of the office 90% of the time. When he's here, his office is within 10 feet of mine as it is, but he keeps his door closed.

Ugh. Even the ONE time he did hear it, it ended up working in her favor. We were having a staff meeting and although I loathe it, my boss makes us go around the table and talk about something good, momentous, etc in our personal lives. I really try and avoid saying anything personal largely due to this woman because she'll find some way to use it against me. Well, my assistant pipes up, "It's Cami's milestone birthday tomorrow and so make sure to stop by our area on that day because I'll have cake and punch for everyone!" So everyone congratulates me on my birthday, nice, nice, whatever.

Then in a lull in the conversation, OldKayla pipes up, "Wow! You're only X years old! I'm shocked. I thought you were way older."
Silence as everyone else sits there, mouth agape.
Me, in my iciest tone, "Excuse me?"
OldKayla: "Well, when I was X years old, I looked so much younger than YOU!"
My assistant: "You cannot have seriously just said that, OldKayla."
OldKayla: "Why? It's just an objective fact. I clearly have better genes."
Another coworker: "Well, that's interesting. Because I thought Cami was 15 years younger than her actual age."
Another coworker: "Me too."
OldKayla:  "Well, it's not that Cami looks old or anything. I guess. In your opinions. Just not as young as I did at that age. Like I said, better genes are mine." Then she does this pursed lip smirk that makes me want to slap her.
Boss: "I think you owe Cami an apology."
OldKayla: "Fine. I apologize, but I don't see why I have to apologize for having better genes. It's just the DNA roulette wheel, after all!"

Then she came back to me 5 times over the next two days to "explain" to me why what she said wasn't rude, just the truth. 

So my boss thinks that I have an "issue" with OldKayla because -- and he does acknowledge this -- she insulted my appearance once.

[Auntie Mame]

Cami, can you just try saying over and over in totally monotone "yep, uh-huh, you win".  Lather rinse repeat.  Don't chnage the tones or the words, and don't look at her.  Stare straight ahead, or keep working while repeating "yep, uh-huh, you win". 

[weeblewobble]

What a pill.  Note to self, move before Kayla grows up.

[Cami]

Cami, can you just try saying over and over in totally monotone "yep, uh-huh, you win".  Lather rinse repeat.  Don't chnage the tones or the words, and don't look at her.  Stare straight ahead, or keep working while repeating "yep, uh-huh, you win".

Thanks for the idea. I've tried that. She then uses it against me. "Well, last time you admitted I was right, so therefore that means you need to give in this time just to save us time since you know I'm always right." She views it as "giving in" and "proving" that she's right all of the time. The problem is also that many times I cannot give in because she's simply wrong and if I give in, then the wrong decision will be made.

I really feel like I can't win with this person. It may really be time to move on. Sigh.  I don't want to look for a new job in this economy, but her behavior is taking too great a toll on me not only professionally, but the stress she causes is affecting my off-hours as well.

(I just realized I posted in another thread about another insufferably persistent coworker I used to have. I think I've had my fair share of these nincompoops! LOL)

[gramma dishes]

Have you ever tried the less polite method?  Just stop short wherever you are, look her right straight in the eye with your coldest possible look and say "Just stop it.  I am NOT going to play your game" and then go right back to whatever you were doing and ignore her for the rest of the day?

[Sophia]

That is a good idea.  It isn't as if there would be a problem at work because of that.  What would the OldKayla say to boss, "She refuses to admit I am better than her"

[bloo]

Cami, can you just try saying over and over in totally monotone "yep, uh-huh, you win".  Lather rinse repeat.  Don't chnage the tones or the words, and don't look at her.  Stare straight ahead, or keep working while repeating "yep, uh-huh, you win".

Thanks for the idea. I've tried that. She then uses it against me. "Well, last time you admitted I was right, so therefore that means you need to give in this time just to save us time since you know I'm always right." She views it as "giving in" and "proving" that she's right all of the time. The problem is also that many times I cannot give in because she's simply wrong and if I give in, then the wrong decision will be made.

I really feel like I can't win with this person. It may really be time to move on. Sigh.  I don't want to look for a new job in this economy, but her behavior is taking too great a toll on me not only professionally, but the stress she causes is affecting my off-hours as well.

(I just realized I posted in another thread about another insufferably persistent coworker I used to have. I think I've had my fair share of these nincompoops! LOL)

Sorry for you Cami. This is my MIL. Who doesn't speak to us. Because, among other things, we won't (anymore) acknowledge that she's ALWAYS riiiiiiiiiiiiight!

Bloo and Bloo's DH very happy.

Have you ever tried the less polite method?  Just stop short wherever you are, look her right straight in the eye with your coldest possible look and say "Just stop it.  I am NOT going to play your game" and then go right back to whatever you were doing and ignore her for the rest of the day?

Excellent idea!

That is a good idea.  It isn't as if there would be a problem at work because of that.  What would the OldKayla say to boss, "She refuses to admit I am better than her"

LOL!

[Cami]

Have you ever tried the less polite method?  Just stop short wherever you are, look her right straight in the eye with your coldest possible look and say "Just stop it.  I am NOT going to play your game" and then go right back to whatever you were doing and ignore her for the rest of the day?

Yup, tried that on Friday afternoon. I told her, "This is the ninth time you've brought up this topic in two days. I need you to stop playing this game and focus on getting the information that we need to complete this project."

Her answer: "But I'm not playing a game. I truly want what's best for our organization and that is, of course, my idea. Now if you would just admit that my idea IS best, then we could all get back to work. You're the one holding up progress."  Then she does that little smirk.

And the problem is that, unfortunately, she and I have been assigned to work together on projects. So I just can't ignore her and go back to work. We have to come to joint decisions and it's like slogging through an eel-infested pond in concrete boots.

Thanks for the ideas, though. It helps to know that I can vent to people!

[Cleargleam]

Have you ever tried the less polite method?  Just stop short wherever you are, look her right straight in the eye with your coldest possible look and say "Just stop it.  I am NOT going to play your game" and then go right back to whatever you were doing and ignore her for the rest of the day?

Yup, tried that on Friday afternoon. I told her, "This is the ninth time you've brought up this topic in two days. I need you to stop playing this game and focus on getting the information that we need to complete this project."

Her answer: "But I'm not playing a game. I truly want what's best for our organization and that is, of course, my idea. Now if you would just admit that my idea IS best, then we could all get back to work. You're the one holding up progress."  Then she does that little smirk.

And the problem is that, unfortunately, she and I have been assigned to work together on projects. So I just can't ignore her and go back to work. We have to come to joint decisions and it's like slogging through an eel-infested pond in concrete boots.

Thanks for the ideas, though. It helps to know that I can vent to people!

Umm.. document your objections; admit her idea is best; and sign off on her idea. Then when it blows up bring up the documented objection.

[PastryGoddess]

This is going to sound like more hassle, but the best thing to do with these people is to move it from verbal to written. 


So next time she does this put it in an email that you don't agree and the reasons why. Then send it to her.  She probably won't be able to help herself and will end up writing you back.  Then when she follows you around again, you send her an email telling her to please stop following you around as you've already had this conversation.  Rinse, lather, repeat. 


Then you have actual proof to take to your boss.  I'm guessing that by the next time your boss is in, you'll have plenty of emails showing just how annoying she is

[Cami]

This is going to sound like more hassle, but the best thing to do with these people is to move it from verbal to written. 


So next time she does this put it in an email that you don't agree and the reasons why. Then send it to her.  She probably won't be able to help herself and will end up writing you back.  Then when she follows you around again, you send her an email telling her to please stop following you around as you've already had this conversation.  Rinse, lather, repeat. 


Then you have actual proof to take to your boss.  I'm guessing that by the next time your boss is in, you'll have plenty of emails showing just how annoying she is

OldKayla, as I said, is infinitely more sneaky than the pill in training that the OP spoke about. She's quite clever at avoiding putting things in writing.  I send her emails, she comes to my office. I tell her I only want to hear her objections in an email reply, she refuses. My boss thinks I'm being "too formal for a team player" and should "just talk it out."


 

[GrammarNerd]

Cami, can you try the 'hostile environment' tactic with regards to OldKayla?  She won't respond to you via email (bothering you in your office), she follows you around, she won't negotiate/be a team player (she's always right), etc.  She's creating stress for you and making your job more difficult.  (Seriously, can you carry a stopwatch with you and start timing her on how much time she's wasting by trying to convince you that she's right?)  Can your HR help you with how to handle her?  Can you put it in terms of how much time you waste by her trying to argue that she's right?  Put it back on them...this is what's happening, and you don't know what to do.  Since you can't record her, how are they going to protect YOU from HER? 

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.  Squeak.  Loudly.

[Cami]

Cami, can you try the 'hostile environment' tactic with regards to OldKayla?  She won't respond to you via email (bothering you in your office), she follows you around, she won't negotiate/be a team player (she's always right), etc.  She's creating stress for you and making your job more difficult.  (Seriously, can you carry a stopwatch with you and start timing her on how much time she's wasting by trying to convince you that she's right?)  Can your HR help you with how to handle her?  Can you put it in terms of how much time you waste by her trying to argue that she's right?  Put it back on them...this is what's happening, and you don't know what to do.  Since you can't record her, how are they going to protect YOU from HER? 

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.  Squeak.  Loudly.

We don't have an HR department because "this is a nice place to work, we don't need one." The person technically in charge of HR has herself gotten in trouble for creating a hostile environment and yet... is still here, technically in charge of HR. The person who complained about her had her hours cut not long after. In this environment, the squeaky wheel gets the grease alright -- enough grease to push you out the door.

And by this environment, I mean not just my workplace but this locale. As a point of reference, our pastor gave a sermon about a year ago about what he called "midwest nice" which is how people are nice to your face, but then stab you in the back. His next point was his observation that if the victim complains then they are treated like crap or shunned or ousted and the stabber gets the sympathy because the worst possible thing you can do here is call out a problem. It's far worse to call out a problem than to create the problem.  As he said, the lump under the carpet from sweeping the dirt under it is so large that it requires immense effort to ignore it, but people would rather ignore it than clean up the dirt and they'd like to throw the carpet over the person pointing to the dirt.  There were calls for his resignation after that sermon. Proving, of course, his point.

Thanks to you all for listening to me and offering suggestions. By nature, I'm a problem solver and in talking about it with you, I've come to realize that I've tried to solve this problem for nearly 7 years, but without support from TPTB, I can't fix it because I can't fix someone else's pathology.