Author Topic: hypocracy or no?  (Read 3435 times)

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bah12

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hypocracy or no?
« on: August 26, 2012, 11:36:29 PM »
An old friend of mine passed away today.  We were once very close and have kept in touch through FB.  As is bound to happen, I found out what happened over FB.  We have a lot of mutual friends and his passing was a shocking and saddening thing for all of us.

Many people posted their condolences on his wall and offered thoughts and prayers to his family.  My friend and I had the same beliefs, but some of our mutual friends have different beliefs.  One in particular, John, often posts negative things on FB against those with my belief, which I mostly ignore.  We have had some healthy debates in the past, but never anything heated.  We are well aware that we have opposing viewpoints on many topics, but in my mind, this has never hindered a civil "friendship."

Until today.  He posted something on his wall, linking back to our friend, about the sad events of the day.  His original post was in reference to taking some action to help the family that is left behind and many of us posted some ideas of things he could do.  Unfortunately, another mutual friend decided to "vent" his frustration that people were offering up comforting words of the religion that both my deceased friend and I share.  Saying how the words are meaningless and stupid...they don't help and that those of us who use those words are selfish.  John wholeheartedly agreed, and the post quickly turned into a religious debate.

I admit I was angry and should have ignored it.  The big problem is that this linked back to our friend's wall, where his family was bound to see it.  Considering that my friend, his wife, and children are all of my belief system, I was even angrier that they would see these words and be even more hurt.  I decided to say something and replied that today should be a day of remembering the goodness of our mutual friend and that using him, and his death, to spurn this religious debate, especially considering they were posting against his religion was disheartening.  I asked that they refrain from posting these hurtful words where they could be seen by his family on his wall.

The response from John and the other guy (who I don't know), was surprising.  The other guy "vented" some more about how my religion hurts everyone and how hateful I must be. 

And John said I was a hypocrite, because I had "spewed such hate" in the same place myself.  He said it was his thread and he had every right to debate whatever he wanted.

Instead of getting into it, I decided to defriend John.  I'm ok with that decision.  I did leave my comment on his post and have been able to view it on our mutual friend's wall...John also did not remove it, but the debate raged on pretty much all day.  Others sided with me, while one other woman (also someone I don't know), sided with John and the other guy. 

I'm honestly very saddened that our friend's wife and teenage children will see this. 

So, here are the questions:

1. Was it hypocritical of me to stick up for my friend and his family in the manner that I chose to do it?
2. Should I have let it go considering how ramped up all of our emotions are today?
3. I still don't like that this thread is there.  I know there is nothing I can do to remove it, but should I offer an apology for it's existence and my part in it to his family?  I have no idea what to even say to them about this.



Sharnita

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2012, 11:52:23 PM »
So to convince you how hate you and people of your religion are they attack grief stricken individuals?  Interesting strategy.

I think the question of  "should I let it go" depends on what you mean by that.  I definitely would stop trying to make them see the error of their ways. 

bah12

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2012, 11:56:50 PM »
So to convince you how hate you and people of your religion are they attack grief stricken individuals?  Interesting strategy.

I think the question of  "should I let it go" depends on what you mean by that.  I definitely would stop trying to make them see the error of their ways.

Thanks.  I actually only made the one comment, so as far as making them see the error of their ways, if it's going to happen, it's not me who will accomplish it.

By letting it go, I mean, to not have said anything at all.  In other words, let the two of them go on and on and not "stuck up" for my friend on that thread at all.  I imagine that part of their response centers around their own grief...as my response was harsher due to mine.

magician5

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2012, 12:13:01 AM »
"1. Was it hypocritical of me to stick up for my friend and his family in the manner that I chose to do it?"

Not hypocritical. Allow me to say it with a quote or two: "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas
in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

I was always fond of Walt Whitman's statement: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes."
There is no 'way to peace.' Peace is the way.

O'Dell

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2012, 12:20:53 AM »
The outcome you wanted was to end the nasty remarks and to get them to cool it right? I think your post egged them on. I'm guessing it would have been better to send each of them PM's and reminded them that their rants were visible to the family and suggest that they take them down or change the settings so they weren't so visible.

And hypocrisy? I'm not sure what reasoning would be behind that label. It sounds like a misguided attempt on your part, but not hypocritical.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.
Walt Whitman

WillyNilly

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2012, 10:02:45 AM »
I don't think you were hypocritical.  Just because you have debated religion before doesn't mean its always appropriate.  There is a term for this, it goes "there is a proper time & place for this type of thing."  There is a time & place for religious debate, what a truly awful world we would live it without it.  But on the dearly departed's FB, at the time of his death is neither the appropriate time or place.

You defended decency and compassion, and then were mature enough to realize your words weren't helpful and let it go.  I think you handled it very appropriately and while I'm sure the debate was hurtful for the grieving family, the effort to shut it down was surely appreciated.

Reason

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2012, 10:17:00 AM »
Sorry for your loss.

I don't think you did anything wrong.

bah12

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2012, 10:42:00 AM »
You know, I think I honestly expected that the other guy didn't realize the thread was linked to our mutual friend's page.  I can understand him wanting to vent something like this, and using John's wall post to do it considering their viewpoints are aligned.  But that when realizing that others would see it and be hurt, he'd change the venue and he and John would continue the discussion on their own walls.  I think I also hoped that John just didn't catch it either.

But having them come back and say they were justified in it because it's what they believe, regardless of how hurt our friend's family may be to see it, was too much.  It's why I decided I can no longer be friends with John in any capacity. 

Now that I've had about 18 hours to digest all of this, I no longer think that I overreacted due to my own grief.  I think cutting John out of my life (which he isn't too overly involved anyway) is the right thing to do.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 11:05:33 AM by bah12 »

TurtleDove

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2012, 11:24:34 AM »
It isn't clear to me what you asked them to do - I don't think you can ask them to cool their debate but I do think you can ask them untag your deceased friend and keep incendiary comments off his page.

bah12

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2012, 11:32:28 AM »
It isn't clear to me what you asked them to do - I don't think you can ask them to cool their debate but I do think you can ask them untag your deceased friend and keep incendiary comments off his page.

I suggested that they not have their religious debate on a post that links back to our friend's wall and that they instead focus on remembering him.

But, I was a bit harsher than that...telling them that the manner in which they were having this conversation was completely inappropriate and that I was saddened to see them posting such comments considering that our friend was of the very religion that they were bashing and would appreciate the comments they have such 'contempt' for. 

TurtleDove

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2012, 11:35:28 AM »
In that case you were fine. I'm sorry this is happening!

bah12

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2012, 11:50:44 AM »
Update:

I checked FB this morning and the thread is no longer on my friend's wall.  I don't know who removed it (if it was John or a member of my friend's family), but it's gone.  So that is done thankfully. 

Girlie

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2012, 01:11:30 PM »
I'm glad that it has been taken down.

I will say that while a private note might have been better to keep the peace, the note you sent may have very well served as a reminder to others to not get involved at all, and maybe to leave the thread alone and choose another avenue of expressing their condolences to the family. That would have been a win, IMHO.


SuperMartianRobotGirl

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2012, 09:41:35 AM »
You were in the right here. Your words were hopefully some comfort anyway if the family saw the thread. Just knowing someone cares and notices the problem can be a help.

JenJay

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Re: hypocracy or no?
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2012, 10:10:01 AM »
I'm very sorry for your loss. I imagine seeing the thread will be very upsetting for your friend's family but seeing your reply and the subsequent agreements will hopefully take the sting out of the comment. John has probably lost more than one friend over this, I know I'd have no qualms blocking him if I were a relative or good friend of your friend.

John may have a "right" to post anything he wants, and link anyone he wants to it, but his complete and utter lack of compassion far outweighs whatever point he was trying to make.

Re: the update, I wonder if your friend's wife removed it from the husband's wall and, since you're no longer friends with John directly, that's why you don't see it anymore? I'm glad it's gone, whatever the reason.