Author Topic: Being addressed by first name  (Read 24794 times)

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GraceSullivan

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2012, 12:19:32 AM »
I'm wondering how regional this is, too, within the US.  I've lived from coast to coast, and in between.  I currently live in the south (mid-south, not the deep south).  I'm called 'Ms. Sullivan' a lot more here then anywhere else I've lived.  Doctors, co-workers, dentist, etc.  My friends' kids call me 'Miss Grace,' which I already know is regional, since my friends' kids in CA, NY, NJ, etc, call me Grace, which I don't mind, but do get a kick out of 'Miss Grace.'

I will admit to calling those people older then me 'Ms' or 'Mr' more so then someone around my own age (41) or younger.  To the OP: I don't think that a simple "Please call me Doctor (or Ms if you prefer) So and So" is rude at all, and would ultimately make you more comfortable in the situation.

crocodile

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2012, 09:19:08 PM »
None of us in the coroner's office called people by their first names (I mean people who were coming to identify loved ones, etc.) because it was a governmental rule for our office protocol.

Moray

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2012, 11:57:47 AM »
None of us in the coroner's office called people by their first names (I mean people who were coming to identify loved ones, etc.) because it was a governmental rule for our office protocol.

So if some grieving spouse comes in to identify her husband's mangled corpse and specifically asks you to call her "Jenny", you refuse?

Cold. Real cold.
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MariaE

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2012, 12:00:49 PM »
None of us in the coroner's office called people by their first names (I mean people who were coming to identify loved ones, etc.) because it was a governmental rule for our office protocol.

So if some grieving spouse comes in to identify her husband's mangled corpse and specifically asks you to call her "Jenny", you refuse?

Cold. Real cold.

Agreed. I realize it's in no way the OP's fault, but that's a horrible rule  :(
 
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Sharnita

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2012, 07:19:19 AM »
None of us in the coroner's office called people by their first names (I mean people who were coming to identify loved ones, etc.) because it was a governmental rule for our office protocol.

So if some grieving spouse comes in to identify her husband's mangled corpse and specifically asks you to call her "Jenny", you refuse?

Cold. Real cold.

I can actually see a reason for this. (Although as a side note if the corpse was actually mangled they would likely discourage "Jenny" from trying to visually identify her husband).  I  think that they would want the spouse to understand that they were there for professional reasons but that the coroner's office is a but removed - they do not offer counseling services, though maybe they can refer people.  It might be difficult to maintain the right balance unless there are specific protocols in place to deal with people while maintaining professional distance.  They might be dealing with several wives a week - if they didn't keep some distance the job would take a toll.

Agreed. I realize it's in no way the OP's fault, but that's a horrible rule  :(

crocodile

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2012, 03:45:49 PM »
Actually, in the US, police departments and coroners' offices are instructed to call people by their last name and title as a sign of respect, not coldness.

Moray

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2012, 03:48:31 PM »
Understood. I absolutely get that it's intended as a sign of respect.

However, if someone asks you to call them Mary, you call them Mary, especially if you expect your own request to be called "Ms. O'Dile" instead of "Croc" to be respected. To do otherwise is hypocritical.
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MariaE

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2012, 02:44:20 AM »
Understood. I absolutely get that it's intended as a sign of respect.

However, if someone asks you to call them Mary, you call them Mary, especially if you expect your own request to be called "Ms. O'Dile" instead of "Croc" to be respected. To do otherwise is hypocritical.

Yup. That's my point exactly. Defaulting to Mr/Mrs/Ms is absolutely a sign of respect. Insisting on staying with that form of address when specifically asked otherwise, is a huge sign of disrespect.
 
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Mental Magpie

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2012, 02:56:14 AM »
Understood. I absolutely get that it's intended as a sign of respect.

However, if someone asks you to call them Mary, you call them Mary, especially if you expect your own request to be called "Ms. O'Dile" instead of "Croc" to be respected. To do otherwise is hypocritical.

Yup. That's my point exactly. Defaulting to Mr/Mrs/Ms is absolutely a sign of respect. Insisting on staying with that form of address when specifically asked otherwise, is a huge sign of disrespect.

ITA, and you said it so much better than I could have.
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White Lotus

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2012, 12:01:00 AM »
I completly agree with Ms. Crocodile.   I hate being first-named by people who could be my children.  I was raised -- and in the USA -- that one addresses anyone one's parents' ages and up by title and surname until one is asked to do otherwise, and taught my children to do the same, with some exceptions for colleagues of equal professional status.  This is especially egregious when I say, "Hi,  I am Dr. Lotus" and am immediately called "Whitey," a nickname I have never, ever used.  This is also a serious problem with first-naming people.  People are very commonly called by nicknames, not the full formal forms of their given names, or the reverse.  Is she called Susan, Sue, Suzie, or Suz? Is she called Elizabeth, Beth, Liza, Betty, Betsy, Bess, Liz -- what?  If she is called Peggy, she may not even know who you are talking about when you call out "Margaret."  Is it Theresa, Tess, Terry or perhaps Louise, her middle name?   But if you call any of these women "Ms. Lee" you really cannot screw up.  I usually respond, "I have never in my life been called that.  Dr. Lotus will do."
I  also HATE being called "MRS."   I am a "Dr."  or a "Ms." (Ph.D.)  It is not in the least respectful to address the women who fought to make a marital status neutral title for women available by a title that identifies them by a presumed marital status.  And I am so close to 60 I can just about touch it.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2012, 12:17:36 AM »
I completly agree with Ms. Crocodile.   I hate being first-named by people who could be my children.  I was raised -- and in the USA -- that one addresses anyone one's parents' ages and up by title and surname until one is asked to do otherwise, and taught my children to do the same, with some exceptions for colleagues of equal professional status.  This is especially egregious when I say, "Hi,  I am Dr. Lotus" and am immediately called "Whitey," a nickname I have never, ever used.  This is also a serious problem with first-naming people.  People are very commonly called by nicknames, not the full formal forms of their given names, or the reverse.  Is she called Susan, Sue, Suzie, or Suz? Is she called Elizabeth, Beth, Liza, Betty, Betsy, Bess, Liz -- what?  If she is called Peggy, she may not even know who you are talking about when you call out "Margaret."  Is it Theresa, Tess, Terry or perhaps Louise, her middle name?   But if you call any of these women "Ms. Lee" you really cannot screw up.  I usually respond, "I have never in my life been called that.  Dr. Lotus will do."
I  also HATE being called "MRS."   I am a "Dr."  or a "Ms." (Ph.D.)  It is not in the least respectful to address the women who fought to make a marital status neutral title for women available by a title that identifies them by a presumed marital status.  And I am so close to 60 I can just about touch it.

So people should automatically just know by looking at you that you're a doctor or that you despise Mrs. even though you're married (assuming you're married in this case...if you're not married, should they automatically just know you're not?)?  The only point at which I think it becomes disrespectful is when you voice your preference and then a person ignores it.  Up until that point, I don't think it's disrespectful at all.
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Margo

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2012, 09:02:17 AM »
I completly agree with Ms. Crocodile.   I hate being first-named by people who could be my children.  I was raised -- and in the USA -- that one addresses anyone one's parents' ages and up by title and surname until one is asked to do otherwise, and taught my children to do the same, with some exceptions for colleagues of equal professional status.  This is especially egregious when I say, "Hi,  I am Dr. Lotus" and am immediately called "Whitey," a nickname I have never, ever used.  This is also a serious problem with first-naming people.  People are very commonly called by nicknames, not the full formal forms of their given names, or the reverse.  Is she called Susan, Sue, Suzie, or Suz? Is she called Elizabeth, Beth, Liza, Betty, Betsy, Bess, Liz -- what?  If she is called Peggy, she may not even know who you are talking about when you call out "Margaret."  Is it Theresa, Tess, Terry or perhaps Louise, her middle name?   But if you call any of these women "Ms. Lee" you really cannot screw up.  I usually respond, "I have never in my life been called that.  Dr. Lotus will do."
I  also HATE being called "MRS."   I am a "Dr."  or a "Ms." (Ph.D.)  It is not in the least respectful to address the women who fought to make a marital status neutral title for women available by a title that identifies them by a presumed marital status.  And I am so close to 60 I can just about touch it.

So people should automatically just know by looking at you that you're a doctor or that you despise Mrs. even though you're married (assuming you're married in this case...if you're not married, should they automatically just know you're not?)?  The only point at which I think it becomes disrespectful is when you voice your preference and then a person ignores it.  Up until that point, I don't think it's disrespectful at all.

People can't be expected to know by looking whether you are a Doctor, but  calling someone 'Mrs' makes two presumptions - first that they are married, and secondly that they are happy to be called Mrs.

This is why we have 'Ms' as it doesn't carry those assumptions. And we've had it for at least 50 years now, it's not as though it's a temporary or uncommon fad.

It's about starting with respect.

If you don't know someone, then you begin by adressing them formally as Mr. X or Ms. X. They can then let you know if they prefer a different form of address, whether it is to say (politely) "Oh,. it's Dr X, actually, or "I prefer Mrs X" or "Please call me Liz".

I think that **particualrly** in a professional setting, calling someone Miss or Mrs where they have not already expressed a preference is less respectful then calling them Ms, which is a neutral word.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2012, 02:32:09 PM »
I completly agree with Ms. Crocodile.   I hate being first-named by people who could be my children.  I was raised -- and in the USA -- that one addresses anyone one's parents' ages and up by title and surname until one is asked to do otherwise, and taught my children to do the same, with some exceptions for colleagues of equal professional status.  This is especially egregious when I say, "Hi,  I am Dr. Lotus" and am immediately called "Whitey," a nickname I have never, ever used.  This is also a serious problem with first-naming people.  People are very commonly called by nicknames, not the full formal forms of their given names, or the reverse.  Is she called Susan, Sue, Suzie, or Suz? Is she called Elizabeth, Beth, Liza, Betty, Betsy, Bess, Liz -- what?  If she is called Peggy, she may not even know who you are talking about when you call out "Margaret."  Is it Theresa, Tess, Terry or perhaps Louise, her middle name?   But if you call any of these women "Ms. Lee" you really cannot screw up.  I usually respond, "I have never in my life been called that.  Dr. Lotus will do."
I  also HATE being called "MRS."   I am a "Dr."  or a "Ms." (Ph.D.)  It is not in the least respectful to address the women who fought to make a marital status neutral title for women available by a title that identifies them by a presumed marital status.  And I am so close to 60 I can just about touch it.

So people should automatically just know by looking at you that you're a doctor or that you despise Mrs. even though you're married (assuming you're married in this case...if you're not married, should they automatically just know you're not?)?  The only point at which I think it becomes disrespectful is when you voice your preference and then a person ignores it.  Up until that point, I don't think it's disrespectful at all.

People can't be expected to know by looking whether you are a Doctor, but  calling someone 'Mrs' makes two presumptions - first that they are married, and secondly that they are happy to be called Mrs.

This is why we have 'Ms' as it doesn't carry those assumptions. And we've had it for at least 50 years now, it's not as though it's a temporary or uncommon fad.

It's about starting with respect.

If you don't know someone, then you begin by adressing them formally as Mr. X or Ms. X. They can then let you know if they prefer a different form of address, whether it is to say (politely) "Oh,. it's Dr X, actually, or "I prefer Mrs X" or "Please call me Liz".

I think that **particualrly** in a professional setting, calling someone Miss or Mrs where they have not already expressed a preference is less respectful then calling them Ms, which is a neutral word.

It is neutral to you. Some women absolutely abhor it.
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

violinp

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2012, 03:58:25 PM »
I completly agree with Ms. Crocodile.   I hate being first-named by people who could be my children.  I was raised -- and in the USA -- that one addresses anyone one's parents' ages and up by title and surname until one is asked to do otherwise, and taught my children to do the same, with some exceptions for colleagues of equal professional status.  This is especially egregious when I say, "Hi,  I am Dr. Lotus" and am immediately called "Whitey," a nickname I have never, ever used.  This is also a serious problem with first-naming people.  People are very commonly called by nicknames, not the full formal forms of their given names, or the reverse.  Is she called Susan, Sue, Suzie, or Suz? Is she called Elizabeth, Beth, Liza, Betty, Betsy, Bess, Liz -- what?  If she is called Peggy, she may not even know who you are talking about when you call out "Margaret."  Is it Theresa, Tess, Terry or perhaps Louise, her middle name?   But if you call any of these women "Ms. Lee" you really cannot screw up.  I usually respond, "I have never in my life been called that.  Dr. Lotus will do."
I  also HATE being called "MRS."   I am a "Dr."  or a "Ms." (Ph.D.)  It is not in the least respectful to address the women who fought to make a marital status neutral title for women available by a title that identifies them by a presumed marital status.  And I am so close to 60 I can just about touch it.

So people should automatically just know by looking at you that you're a doctor or that you despise Mrs. even though you're married (assuming you're married in this case...if you're not married, should they automatically just know you're not?)?  The only point at which I think it becomes disrespectful is when you voice your preference and then a person ignores it.  Up until that point, I don't think it's disrespectful at all.

People can't be expected to know by looking whether you are a Doctor, but  calling someone 'Mrs' makes two presumptions - first that they are married, and secondly that they are happy to be called Mrs.

This is why we have 'Ms' as it doesn't carry those assumptions. And we've had it for at least 50 years now, it's not as though it's a temporary or uncommon fad.

It's about starting with respect.

If you don't know someone, then you begin by adressing them formally as Mr. X or Ms. X. They can then let you know if they prefer a different form of address, whether it is to say (politely) "Oh,. it's Dr X, actually, or "I prefer Mrs X" or "Please call me Liz".

I think that **particualrly** in a professional setting, calling someone Miss or Mrs where they have not already expressed a preference is less respectful then calling them Ms, which is a neutral word.

It is neutral to you. Some women absolutely abhor it.

POD. I would much rather be referred to as "Miss Violinp Lastname" rather than "Miz* Violinp Lastname," because the latter is trying to imitate or make more obvious a Southern accent, which is just confusing to me. I don't see "Miss" as bad and "Mrs." as good - they merely denote marital status for the women who choose to change their last names. That said, women who prefer to go by "Ms." should be called what they wish to be called, and refusing to do so is quite rude.

*That's how Ms. is pronounced, to the best of my knowledge.
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turnip

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Re: Being addressed by first name
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2012, 04:03:37 PM »
I completly agree with Ms. Crocodile.   I hate being first-named by people who could be my children.  I was raised -- and in the USA -- that one addresses anyone one's parents' ages and up by title and surname until one is asked to do otherwise, and taught my children to do the same, with some exceptions for colleagues of equal professional status.  This is especially egregious when I say, "Hi,  I am Dr. Lotus" and am immediately called "Whitey," a nickname I have never, ever used.  This is also a serious problem with first-naming people.  People are very commonly called by nicknames, not the full formal forms of their given names, or the reverse.  Is she called Susan, Sue, Suzie, or Suz? Is she called Elizabeth, Beth, Liza, Betty, Betsy, Bess, Liz -- what?  If she is called Peggy, she may not even know who you are talking about when you call out "Margaret."  Is it Theresa, Tess, Terry or perhaps Louise, her middle name?   But if you call any of these women "Ms. Lee" you really cannot screw up.  I usually respond, "I have never in my life been called that.  Dr. Lotus will do."
I  also HATE being called "MRS."   I am a "Dr."  or a "Ms." (Ph.D.)  It is not in the least respectful to address the women who fought to make a marital status neutral title for women available by a title that identifies them by a presumed marital status.  And I am so close to 60 I can just about touch it.

So people should automatically just know by looking at you that you're a doctor or that you despise Mrs. even though you're married (assuming you're married in this case...if you're not married, should they automatically just know you're not?)?  The only point at which I think it becomes disrespectful is when you voice your preference and then a person ignores it.  Up until that point, I don't think it's disrespectful at all.

People can't be expected to know by looking whether you are a Doctor, but  calling someone 'Mrs' makes two presumptions - first that they are married, and secondly that they are happy to be called Mrs.

This is why we have 'Ms' as it doesn't carry those assumptions. And we've had it for at least 50 years now, it's not as though it's a temporary or uncommon fad.

It's about starting with respect.

If you don't know someone, then you begin by adressing them formally as Mr. X or Ms. X. They can then let you know if they prefer a different form of address, whether it is to say (politely) "Oh,. it's Dr X, actually, or "I prefer Mrs X" or "Please call me Liz".

I think that **particualrly** in a professional setting, calling someone Miss or Mrs where they have not already expressed a preference is less respectful then calling them Ms, which is a neutral word.

It is neutral to you. Some women absolutely abhor it.



People can like or dislike whatever they want, but what do women who abhor the title Ms. expect the medical assistant at the Doctor's office to do when she needs to call for Jane Smith?    People don't need to like Ms. but I hope they can appreciate that it's the best default title if we are going to stick to titles.