Etiquette School is in session! > "I'm afraid that won't be possible."

Being addressed by first name

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Mental Magpie:

--- Quote from: White Lotus on October 19, 2012, 12:01:00 AM ---I completly agree with Ms. Crocodile.   I hate being first-named by people who could be my children.  I was raised -- and in the USA -- that one addresses anyone one's parents' ages and up by title and surname until one is asked to do otherwise, and taught my children to do the same, with some exceptions for colleagues of equal professional status.  This is especially egregious when I say, "Hi,  I am Dr. Lotus" and am immediately called "Whitey," a nickname I have never, ever used.  This is also a serious problem with first-naming people.  People are very commonly called by nicknames, not the full formal forms of their given names, or the reverse.  Is she called Susan, Sue, Suzie, or Suz? Is she called Elizabeth, Beth, Liza, Betty, Betsy, Bess, Liz -- what?  If she is called Peggy, she may not even know who you are talking about when you call out "Margaret."  Is it Theresa, Tess, Terry or perhaps Louise, her middle name?   But if you call any of these women "Ms. Lee" you really cannot screw up.  I usually respond, "I have never in my life been called that.  Dr. Lotus will do."
I  also HATE being called "MRS."   I am a "Dr."  or a "Ms." (Ph.D.)  It is not in the least respectful to address the women who fought to make a marital status neutral title for women available by a title that identifies them by a presumed marital status.  And I am so close to 60 I can just about touch it.

--- End quote ---

So people should automatically just know by looking at you that you're a doctor or that you despise Mrs. even though you're married (assuming you're married in this case...if you're not married, should they automatically just know you're not?)?  The only point at which I think it becomes disrespectful is when you voice your preference and then a person ignores it.  Up until that point, I don't think it's disrespectful at all.

Margo:

--- Quote from: Mental Magpie on October 19, 2012, 12:17:36 AM ---
--- Quote from: White Lotus on October 19, 2012, 12:01:00 AM ---I completly agree with Ms. Crocodile.   I hate being first-named by people who could be my children.  I was raised -- and in the USA -- that one addresses anyone one's parents' ages and up by title and surname until one is asked to do otherwise, and taught my children to do the same, with some exceptions for colleagues of equal professional status.  This is especially egregious when I say, "Hi,  I am Dr. Lotus" and am immediately called "Whitey," a nickname I have never, ever used.  This is also a serious problem with first-naming people.  People are very commonly called by nicknames, not the full formal forms of their given names, or the reverse.  Is she called Susan, Sue, Suzie, or Suz? Is she called Elizabeth, Beth, Liza, Betty, Betsy, Bess, Liz -- what?  If she is called Peggy, she may not even know who you are talking about when you call out "Margaret."  Is it Theresa, Tess, Terry or perhaps Louise, her middle name?   But if you call any of these women "Ms. Lee" you really cannot screw up.  I usually respond, "I have never in my life been called that.  Dr. Lotus will do."
I  also HATE being called "MRS."   I am a "Dr."  or a "Ms." (Ph.D.)  It is not in the least respectful to address the women who fought to make a marital status neutral title for women available by a title that identifies them by a presumed marital status.  And I am so close to 60 I can just about touch it.

--- End quote ---

So people should automatically just know by looking at you that you're a doctor or that you despise Mrs. even though you're married (assuming you're married in this case...if you're not married, should they automatically just know you're not?)?  The only point at which I think it becomes disrespectful is when you voice your preference and then a person ignores it.  Up until that point, I don't think it's disrespectful at all.

--- End quote ---

People can't be expected to know by looking whether you are a Doctor, but  calling someone 'Mrs' makes two presumptions - first that they are married, and secondly that they are happy to be called Mrs.

This is why we have 'Ms' as it doesn't carry those assumptions. And we've had it for at least 50 years now, it's not as though it's a temporary or uncommon fad.

It's about starting with respect.

If you don't know someone, then you begin by adressing them formally as Mr. X or Ms. X. They can then let you know if they prefer a different form of address, whether it is to say (politely) "Oh,. it's Dr X, actually, or "I prefer Mrs X" or "Please call me Liz".

I think that **particualrly** in a professional setting, calling someone Miss or Mrs where they have not already expressed a preference is less respectful then calling them Ms, which is a neutral word.

Mental Magpie:

--- Quote from: Margo on November 16, 2012, 09:02:17 AM ---
--- Quote from: Mental Magpie on October 19, 2012, 12:17:36 AM ---
--- Quote from: White Lotus on October 19, 2012, 12:01:00 AM ---I completly agree with Ms. Crocodile.   I hate being first-named by people who could be my children.  I was raised -- and in the USA -- that one addresses anyone one's parents' ages and up by title and surname until one is asked to do otherwise, and taught my children to do the same, with some exceptions for colleagues of equal professional status.  This is especially egregious when I say, "Hi,  I am Dr. Lotus" and am immediately called "Whitey," a nickname I have never, ever used.  This is also a serious problem with first-naming people.  People are very commonly called by nicknames, not the full formal forms of their given names, or the reverse.  Is she called Susan, Sue, Suzie, or Suz? Is she called Elizabeth, Beth, Liza, Betty, Betsy, Bess, Liz -- what?  If she is called Peggy, she may not even know who you are talking about when you call out "Margaret."  Is it Theresa, Tess, Terry or perhaps Louise, her middle name?   But if you call any of these women "Ms. Lee" you really cannot screw up.  I usually respond, "I have never in my life been called that.  Dr. Lotus will do."
I  also HATE being called "MRS."   I am a "Dr."  or a "Ms." (Ph.D.)  It is not in the least respectful to address the women who fought to make a marital status neutral title for women available by a title that identifies them by a presumed marital status.  And I am so close to 60 I can just about touch it.

--- End quote ---

So people should automatically just know by looking at you that you're a doctor or that you despise Mrs. even though you're married (assuming you're married in this case...if you're not married, should they automatically just know you're not?)?  The only point at which I think it becomes disrespectful is when you voice your preference and then a person ignores it.  Up until that point, I don't think it's disrespectful at all.

--- End quote ---

People can't be expected to know by looking whether you are a Doctor, but  calling someone 'Mrs' makes two presumptions - first that they are married, and secondly that they are happy to be called Mrs.

This is why we have 'Ms' as it doesn't carry those assumptions. And we've had it for at least 50 years now, it's not as though it's a temporary or uncommon fad.

It's about starting with respect.

If you don't know someone, then you begin by adressing them formally as Mr. X or Ms. X. They can then let you know if they prefer a different form of address, whether it is to say (politely) "Oh,. it's Dr X, actually, or "I prefer Mrs X" or "Please call me Liz".

I think that **particualrly** in a professional setting, calling someone Miss or Mrs where they have not already expressed a preference is less respectful then calling them Ms, which is a neutral word.

--- End quote ---

It is neutral to you. Some women absolutely abhor it.

violinp:

--- Quote from: Mental Magpie on November 16, 2012, 02:32:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: Margo on November 16, 2012, 09:02:17 AM ---
--- Quote from: Mental Magpie on October 19, 2012, 12:17:36 AM ---
--- Quote from: White Lotus on October 19, 2012, 12:01:00 AM ---I completly agree with Ms. Crocodile.   I hate being first-named by people who could be my children.  I was raised -- and in the USA -- that one addresses anyone one's parents' ages and up by title and surname until one is asked to do otherwise, and taught my children to do the same, with some exceptions for colleagues of equal professional status.  This is especially egregious when I say, "Hi,  I am Dr. Lotus" and am immediately called "Whitey," a nickname I have never, ever used.  This is also a serious problem with first-naming people.  People are very commonly called by nicknames, not the full formal forms of their given names, or the reverse.  Is she called Susan, Sue, Suzie, or Suz? Is she called Elizabeth, Beth, Liza, Betty, Betsy, Bess, Liz -- what?  If she is called Peggy, she may not even know who you are talking about when you call out "Margaret."  Is it Theresa, Tess, Terry or perhaps Louise, her middle name?   But if you call any of these women "Ms. Lee" you really cannot screw up.  I usually respond, "I have never in my life been called that.  Dr. Lotus will do."
I  also HATE being called "MRS."   I am a "Dr."  or a "Ms." (Ph.D.)  It is not in the least respectful to address the women who fought to make a marital status neutral title for women available by a title that identifies them by a presumed marital status.  And I am so close to 60 I can just about touch it.

--- End quote ---

So people should automatically just know by looking at you that you're a doctor or that you despise Mrs. even though you're married (assuming you're married in this case...if you're not married, should they automatically just know you're not?)?  The only point at which I think it becomes disrespectful is when you voice your preference and then a person ignores it.  Up until that point, I don't think it's disrespectful at all.

--- End quote ---

People can't be expected to know by looking whether you are a Doctor, but  calling someone 'Mrs' makes two presumptions - first that they are married, and secondly that they are happy to be called Mrs.

This is why we have 'Ms' as it doesn't carry those assumptions. And we've had it for at least 50 years now, it's not as though it's a temporary or uncommon fad.

It's about starting with respect.

If you don't know someone, then you begin by adressing them formally as Mr. X or Ms. X. They can then let you know if they prefer a different form of address, whether it is to say (politely) "Oh,. it's Dr X, actually, or "I prefer Mrs X" or "Please call me Liz".

I think that **particualrly** in a professional setting, calling someone Miss or Mrs where they have not already expressed a preference is less respectful then calling them Ms, which is a neutral word.

--- End quote ---

It is neutral to you. Some women absolutely abhor it.

--- End quote ---

POD. I would much rather be referred to as "Miss Violinp Lastname" rather than "Miz* Violinp Lastname," because the latter is trying to imitate or make more obvious a Southern accent, which is just confusing to me. I don't see "Miss" as bad and "Mrs." as good - they merely denote marital status for the women who choose to change their last names. That said, women who prefer to go by "Ms." should be called what they wish to be called, and refusing to do so is quite rude.

*That's how Ms. is pronounced, to the best of my knowledge.

turnip:

--- Quote from: Mental Magpie on November 16, 2012, 02:32:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: Margo on November 16, 2012, 09:02:17 AM ---
--- Quote from: Mental Magpie on October 19, 2012, 12:17:36 AM ---
--- Quote from: White Lotus on October 19, 2012, 12:01:00 AM ---I completly agree with Ms. Crocodile.   I hate being first-named by people who could be my children.  I was raised -- and in the USA -- that one addresses anyone one's parents' ages and up by title and surname until one is asked to do otherwise, and taught my children to do the same, with some exceptions for colleagues of equal professional status.  This is especially egregious when I say, "Hi,  I am Dr. Lotus" and am immediately called "Whitey," a nickname I have never, ever used.  This is also a serious problem with first-naming people.  People are very commonly called by nicknames, not the full formal forms of their given names, or the reverse.  Is she called Susan, Sue, Suzie, or Suz? Is she called Elizabeth, Beth, Liza, Betty, Betsy, Bess, Liz -- what?  If she is called Peggy, she may not even know who you are talking about when you call out "Margaret."  Is it Theresa, Tess, Terry or perhaps Louise, her middle name?   But if you call any of these women "Ms. Lee" you really cannot screw up.  I usually respond, "I have never in my life been called that.  Dr. Lotus will do."
I  also HATE being called "MRS."   I am a "Dr."  or a "Ms." (Ph.D.)  It is not in the least respectful to address the women who fought to make a marital status neutral title for women available by a title that identifies them by a presumed marital status.  And I am so close to 60 I can just about touch it.

--- End quote ---

So people should automatically just know by looking at you that you're a doctor or that you despise Mrs. even though you're married (assuming you're married in this case...if you're not married, should they automatically just know you're not?)?  The only point at which I think it becomes disrespectful is when you voice your preference and then a person ignores it.  Up until that point, I don't think it's disrespectful at all.

--- End quote ---

People can't be expected to know by looking whether you are a Doctor, but  calling someone 'Mrs' makes two presumptions - first that they are married, and secondly that they are happy to be called Mrs.

This is why we have 'Ms' as it doesn't carry those assumptions. And we've had it for at least 50 years now, it's not as though it's a temporary or uncommon fad.

It's about starting with respect.

If you don't know someone, then you begin by adressing them formally as Mr. X or Ms. X. They can then let you know if they prefer a different form of address, whether it is to say (politely) "Oh,. it's Dr X, actually, or "I prefer Mrs X" or "Please call me Liz".

I think that **particualrly** in a professional setting, calling someone Miss or Mrs where they have not already expressed a preference is less respectful then calling them Ms, which is a neutral word.

--- End quote ---

It is neutral to you. Some women absolutely abhor it.

--- End quote ---



People can like or dislike whatever they want, but what do women who abhor the title Ms. expect the medical assistant at the Doctor's office to do when she needs to call for Jane Smith?    People don't need to like Ms. but I hope they can appreciate that it's the best default title if we are going to stick to titles.

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