When a friend owes money (somewhat long)

[snowball's chance]

Last May, my then-BF & I made plans to go to a concert in Chicago for the following month.  Chicago is about eight hours away, depending on traffic, so we decided to stay there overnight the night of the concert.  I asked a good female friend, who I knew LOVED the band, to join us (we had 4 tix), and BF invited a buddy.  My friend was super excited, and every time I talked to her, she asked when she should pay BF b/c she didn't have all the money (her part of gas, hotel & ticket would be about $120.) right then.  BF told me, & I told her, she could pay the day of the trip (middle of June).

First off, she wasn't ready when we went to pick her up, so we had to wait about 30 minutes for her.  We started the drive, and when we stopped for lunch and gas, she bought lunch & snacks for herself, but I never saw her give BF any money for gas, as I had.  Then when we arrived at the hotel, again, no offers of $ from her.  Then when we took the train downtown to the show, no offers to pick BF's and my fares.  At the bar before the show, she bought a drink and an appetizer for herself, and again, no offers to pay extra towards the bill.  Ditto for drinks at the show, the train ride back to the hotel, etc.  Not one time did she offer to buy BF or me a thing, not even a cup of coffee.

The next she told BF that she would pay him back, but that she would have to wait until her next paycheck, and then she'd have to pay in 2 installments ($60 & $60).  I was peeved that it finally came out that she could not afford to go, and that she never told me or BF before we left town, at least giving us the option of fronting her the money for everything, and then getting repaid.  Once we were alone, I apologized to BF, and he said it was OK as long as he got paid back. 

I should also mention that BF's buddy had to bow out before we left, due to his financial situation, and BF was able to sell buddy's ticket, and I had told her all of that, so she knew she could have a chance to bow out herself if she couldn't afford it.

Fast forward to the end of June/beginning of July:  BF and I break up amicably, and since my friend hadn't repaid him, and she only knew him through me, I offered BF her share of the $$ for that trip, and he accepted it.  As I said, it was amicable, and I didn't want him to get stiffed by the friend that *I * had invited.  Also, if the tables were turned, I would have wanted him to do the same, instead of making me chase down one of his friends after our breakup.  I then told my friend I had paid BF, so she could pay ME.  She told me it would have to be after her next paycheck. 

I have yet to see a dime.  When I called her to ask if when she'd be able to pay me, she told me it'd have to be next paycheck.  She also let it slip that she took a trip w/ her BF at the end of the summer!

My question is, Should I have asked her directly on the trip to contribute, as stooping for gas, etc., came up?  Should I have never paid BF, and let him try to get the $ out of her?  Should I try to get mutual friends to intercede on my behalf w/ my friend (she won't return my calls)?  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Chocolate Cake]

You have just learned a very valuable lesson regarding carrying a friend's cost or making a loan to a friend.  Not only will you never see that money, but you have also now lost a friend.   Situations like this happen all.the.time.

You can turn into a communications acrobat over this issue to get in touch with her, but your friend will never pay you, so save your time and energy.

[fklwmn]

ugh. I hate to say this but it sounds like you have a choice... take your friend to small claims court to recover your money, or write it off as a loss and a lesson.

I hate it when friends take advantage of friends. I have a VERY good friend who called me in a panic and needed me to send her $300 RIGHT now. she was in a huge fight with her husband and needed the money to get her and the kids out of the house. I western unioned her the money. She made up witht he husband, never used themoney for that purpose, and NEVER paid me back. That was almost 4 years ago. Every time I asked her for the money she would promise to send it the next time he got paid. Four years ago. I have never seen a dime of it, and I am sure I never will. Lesson learned.

I think you did the decent thing in paying off your ex, though it left the burden of recovery on your shoulders. I'm sorry to say that I don't think you will ever see that money. You can continue to try to collect, but I'd be surprised if you have any success after all this time.
 

[Emmy]

I agree that you will probably not see that money again.  Your "friend" seems to have made paying you back her last priority.  It seems she has money when it comes to things she wants to do.  You did the noble thing in paying back your ex-BF.  Although he technically did loan her the money, he was doing because she was your friend.  I don't feel you should get other friends involved, this is between you and her.  I can understand venting to your other friends about the situation, but I personally feel resentful when somebody tries to get me to take sides in a dispute with another mutual friend that doesn't directly involve me. 

Some people may not agree with me, but if this issue really bothers you should end the friendship.  It is not worth having a 'friend' who doesn't respect your feelings nor follows through on her committments.  It's up to you if you want to tell her why you want to end the friendship or just move on with you life without telling her.

[minnaloushe]

My question is, 1)Should I have asked her directly on the trip to contribute, as stooping for gas, etc., came up? 
2) Should I have never paid BF, and let him try to get the $ out of her? 
3) Should I try to get mutual friends to intercede on my behalf w/ my friend (she won't return my calls)?  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

1) Yes, but since she probably didn't have the money then either it would have been very uncomfortable by the end of the night.
2) NO! You absolutely did the correct thing. He certainly would not have invited this person on his own.  Way to take responsibility! God, I love people like you!
3) Probably not, they didn't advise you to lend her the money, and why put them in the middle.  Although, if anyone asks why you don't talk, I'd tell them the truth. I'm sure she has her own story.

After losing hundreds of dollars financing two parties thrown by a cousin (I know, I know) I stopped "lending" her money.  Actually I stopped lending money at all. If I had it, I'd give it away, but no more loans.  The next time she asked I told her I couldn't afford to give her the cash she requested.  She said, but it's a loan, I'll pay you back! So I told her I'd split the difference with her.  I'd give her a pass on the first party, and she only had to pay back for the second.  That pretty much equalled what she was asking for, and as far as I was concerned it was good enough.  If you can't afford to throw a party (or go to a concert) you don't do it, but don't expect someone else to pay!

Strangely enough, I haven't heard from her since either...

[snowball's chance]

Thanks, I think you all make a good point that I should cut my losses.  If I sued I could probably win, but not worth it trying to collect gas receipts, etc., from months ago.  It helps to know you guys know I feel.  I've been in this situation w/ family, but that is so different, IMO, than friends.  I guess what bothers me the most is that she never told me before we left that she didn't have the $, so BF & I were forced to loan her the $. 

[Hawkwatcher]

Ugh! I hate people who borrow money from their friends and family and make no effort to pay it back.  I agree that if she knew she could not pay for the trip, she should have bowed out gracefully.  She also should not have put you in the awkward position of having to hunt her down for the money.  I am sorry that you went through this.

[Bijou]

Thanks, I think you all make a good point that I should cut my losses.  If I sued I could probably win, but not worth it trying to collect gas receipts, etc., from months ago.  It helps to know you guys know I feel.  I've been in this situation w/ family, but that is so different, IMO, than friends.  I guess what bothers me the most is that she never told me before we left that she didn't have the $, so BF & I were forced to loan her the $. 

I think you should persue this in small claims court if you are so inclined but I wonder if you would win.  You had no legal obligation to pay her debt and she didn't ask you to pay it.  (It is my impression you paid it without her permission and knowledge.)  It was between her and your former bf.  I think the best you could expect from her, if she wanted to send it, would be a thank you note.  I know you were trying to do what was right (and I completely agree that you did the right thing, but unfortunately, I think this is a legal thing.) 

[ZipTheWonder]

I only have one rule about this kind of thing.  I never lend money.  You're either close enough that I give you the money you want, or you're not close enough to borrow it, so you get out of the car and walk to Chicago.  I am totally heartless about this.   

I want to commend you for taking care of this with your boyfriend.  That was very, very decent of you.  I don't know what to tell you, other than to continue to try to pursue it as you can.  I probably wouldn't go to Small Claims over $120, but I wouldn't be upset by anyone who did, and I don't think you should stop trying to get it back. She has probably been let off the hook for this kind of thing many, many times before by others.

[HogwartsAlum]

Thanks, I think you all make a good point that I should cut my losses.  If I sued I could probably win, but not worth it trying to collect gas receipts, etc., from months ago.  It helps to know you guys know I feel.  I've been in this situation w/ family, but that is so different, IMO, than friends.  I guess what bothers me the most is that she never told me before we left that she didn't have the $, so BF & I were forced to loan her the $. 

I think you should persue this in small claims court if you are so inclined but I wonder if you would win.  You had no legal obligation to pay her debt and she didn't ask you to pay it.  (It is my impression you paid it without her permission and knowledge.)  It was between her and your former bf.  I think the best you could expect from her, if she wanted to send it, would be a thank you note.  I know you were trying to do what was right (and I completely agree that you did the right thing, but unfortunately, I think this is a legal thing.) 

I think this is probably right.  It was very nice of you, however, to make sure your ex was recompensed.

As Judge Judy would say, if you lend money, GET IT IN WRITING.  Especially if friends and family are involved.  If you should ever have to go to court to recoup a loan, you will have proof that it actually WAS a loan.  I can't tell you how many episodes I watched where someone said, "But Your Honor, it was a gift," and the person who made the loan had no proof.

I love Judge Judy. I got hooked on her show while I was unemployed.

[sammycat]

She has probably been let off the hook for this kind of thing many, many times before by others.

Good point.

What about meeting up with her one day in a shopping mall that has lots of ATMS or banks, and as you are browsing, say something like, "look there's your ATM/bank, now you can get out the 1st instalment (or all) of that money you owe me".  Put her on the spot.  It probably won't work but maybe it'll make her squirm.  I'd keep mentioning it each and every time you see her.  One of two things will then happen - she'll either stop seeing you, or she'll pay up, although very ungraciously I bet.  Do you think just hinting or threatening to take her to small claims court would spur her into paying?

If you have decided to just write it off as a bad debt and experience then I'd cut her "friendhip" off.   Actually I'd cut her off anyway even if she did pay as she is obviously a user.  

It's a pity there aren't more people in the world like you (for repaying your boyfriend) or his friend (who bowed out once he realised he couldn't afford it).

[Chocolate Cake]

But Your Honor, it was a gift

I think watching about 200 hours of Judge Judy ought to be required of any young person before they are allowed to move out on their own and manage their own money.   Almost every other case has to do with former friends arguing over loans or some (now) broken up couple trying to recoup money loaned to their former partner.    ""But it was a gift!"  or "I didn't ask her for it, she just gave it to me!"  is the standard defense. 

[itiswhatitisn't]

So this is totally evil, but I thought I'd share.  Along the lines of "there's your ATM pay up" what about this.  Go out to dinner, if you're still in contact, with her and a few friends.  When you go to pay, comment that she's paying for you, you know to pay you back for the concert.  And if she doesn't have the cash on her then she owes someone else.  As I said, it's an evil thought and would probably get you cast into E-H*!!  Fun to think of, but if you're like me you'd never do it.

On a positive note, you've demonstrated what a wonderful person you are by giving your ex the money.  And since your mutual friends know that she's done this to you I bet no one lends her money after this.  So at least she won't put anyone else in this position.

[jaxsue]

I ended a friendship 22 yrs ago due to this kind of behavior. Every time we needed funds I paid and my friend was always going to pay me back, but time after time it happened. We were in college. I worked a PT job, she never did.

The final straw was when I paid for her bridesmaid dress/shoes/hotel for my wedding, and she and her husband didn't give us so much as a card!

Lesson learned. I take the blame for letting it go on for far too long. I don't mix friendship with money now.

[Venus193]

I'm going through this one right now.  I have committed to send the Dark Shadows tapes to a friend who was supposed to pay the postage for them.  This afternoon she told me over the phone that she is looking to refinance her house.  Which means that I will never see a cent of that postage.

I am writing that off for the last time with her.  My one consolation is that she has never asked to borrow money from me.