Author Topic: Changing something for guests  (Read 15279 times)

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Mammavan3

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #90 on: September 08, 2012, 04:05:08 PM »
I have trouble believing that, in an otherwise healthy, functional relationship, the issue of on small print in a bathroom (!) is of such import as to require the intervention of an advice columnist.

There are accommodations and then there are accommodations. If I greatly admire President X and have a large portrait of him, preferably one with eyes that follow you around the room, I would not remove it for a visitor who believes his presidency signaled the end of civilization as we know it, even a parent. However, if someone's idea of art is one of those jars of urine with a crucifix suspended in it, then I think that removing something that so many people would find offensive is the better part of valor.

Since we don't know of any other issues between the LW and his DW, I would be loath to insert my own interpretation that they do exist.  In that case, I think that removing ONE print that would make my DH's DM uncomfortable in my home is a pretty insignificant thing to do and that the DW is making much more out of this than it warrants.

White Lotus

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #91 on: October 13, 2012, 08:34:13 PM »
Etiquette?  We do not buy or serve meat of any sort for anybody. Our home, our rules, though we make many other food accommodations, like peanuts, gluten, and providing vegetarian high protein food.  Some people insist, and quite rudely, too, that they must have meat and bring it, making a huge issue out of one to a few meals. We do not care what you eat in restaurants, and we are very willing to go out.  We have a dedicated outdoor BBQ for the "we brought DINNER" group who appear with meat, and special cooking and serving gear, though I wish we did not have to accommodate rudeness.  We also have a coffee maker and keep both regular and decaf on hand, though we do not like coffee.  We don't like Vodka, but we keep a bottle on hand.  We will provide you with privacy and space for your not-ours religious practices. That is reasonable accomodation for guests.
 Our Buddhist altar is too big to move, but we wouldn't and I am not going to worry about your mezuzah or crucifix, either.  Those are part of you, and you are well within your rights to have them in your home. We will do our Buddhist thing privately as guests and would not insist you join us at our home unless you wanted to.  We find it offensive when people try to force us to hold hands (ewwww) and say a Christian grace, which happens all the time.  Now, that is rude, IMO.
  Art is kind of like religion, to me:  it is art, and it is personal, and a matter of personal taste and choice. Like it, don't like it.  See if I care.  Even if it is MY art, it's no skin off my nose. Don't like it, don't look at it.  Want a three foot tall p*nis statue?  Yes, they exist.  I don't care for them, but again, it is art!  Just because it isn't to my taste doesn't mean you have to take it down,hide it or drape it when I visit your home, where you have a right to display the art that pleases you.
So I say leave the photograph up.  If she doesn't like it, I think that is her problem, she doesn't have to look, and she has no right to censor the art in someone else's home.

RooRoo

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #92 on: October 14, 2012, 08:42:11 AM »
Copied and pasted:
I had surgery on my left hand on Oct. 11th, which means I must hunt and peck with my right hand. That is so slow that I plan to desert my usual grammar and spelling for the next few days, until I can use my left hand a little. Thank you all for your patience!


haven't read all 7 pages, maybe somebody said this already -

i'm not reading too deeply into this. he thinks mom will make visit miserable if she sees pic.

i'd leave it up. if his mom makes visit awful becuz of pic, wife has learned something. if mom sees the pic and laughs, he has learned. they can adjust accordingly.
"Someday we must write a book of Etiquette for sensible people," said Mrs. Morland, "though apart from a few rules it really boils down to an educated mind and a kind heart." ~ Angela Thirkell, Never Too Late

Margo

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #93 on: October 16, 2012, 10:03:01 AM »
Etiquette?  We do not buy or serve meat of any sort for anybody. Our home, our rules, though we make many other food accommodations, like peanuts, gluten, and providing vegetarian high protein food.  Some people insist, and quite rudely, too, that they must have meat and bring it, making a huge issue out of one to a few meals. We do not care what you eat in restaurants, and we are very willing to go out.  We have a dedicated outdoor BBQ for the "we brought DINNER" group who appear with meat, and special cooking and serving gear, though I wish we did not have to accommodate rudeness.  We also have a coffee maker and keep both regular and decaf on hand, though we do not like coffee.  We don't like Vodka, but we keep a bottle on hand.  We will provide you with privacy and space for your not-ours religious practices. That is reasonable accomodation for guests.
 Our Buddhist altar is too big to move, but we wouldn't and I am not going to worry about your mezuzah or crucifix, either.  Those are part of you, and you are well within your rights to have them in your home. We will do our Buddhist thing privately as guests and would not insist you join us at our home unless you wanted to.  We find it offensive when people try to force us to hold hands (ewwww) and say a Christian grace, which happens all the time.  Now, that is rude, IMO.
  Art is kind of like religion, to me:  it is art, and it is personal, and a matter of personal taste and choice. Like it, don't like it.  See if I care.  Even if it is MY art, it's no skin off my nose. Don't like it, don't look at it.  Want a three foot tall p*nis statue?  Yes, they exist.  I don't care for them, but again, it is art!  Just because it isn't to my taste doesn't mean you have to take it down,hide it or drape it when I visit your home, where you have a right to display the art that pleases you.
So I say leave the photograph up.  If she doesn't like it, I think that is her problem, she doesn't have to look, and she has no right to censor the art in someone else's home.

Wow! I'm really shocked that people think it is OK to bring meat into your home and demand that they get to cook it.  I'm not sure, in your position, that I would be willing or able to put up with that kind of demand. (And I'm not a vegetarian)

Similarly with the christian grace - are these people who do this whe they are your guests? If you are guests in their home I would find it a little less offensive, although even then, if they know you are ot members of their faith I think it is rude to try to force you to join in.

Pigeon

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #94 on: October 16, 2012, 11:12:01 AM »
But the wife is doing something...she's saying her preference overrules her husband's.

I think that the wife is saying that her preference overrules her MIL's.

It's the husband who want to take it down not the MIL. It's a preemptive move to avoid any unpleasantness. The wife seems to be gunning for confrontation or at the very least trying to back her husband into a corner and make him fight a fight he is just not prepared to have.

Yes, this - though I see both sides (husband's and wife's, that is).

MIL has not expressed a preference - ostensibly, she doesn't even know the print exists.

Husband is being backed into a corner, and I understand why he doesn't want to make waves with his mom.

Wife feels that her preferences in her home are being overruled (and, I suspect but can't confirm, of course, that this isn't the only situation in which she's felt like this or I doubt it'd be such a big deal).

Practically speaking, I would leave the print up if I were the husband. I wouldn't point out the print to MIL - I would wait to see if she expressed a problem with the print.  If she was offended, I would remove it with no further fanfare.  I think this gives all parties as equal footing as possible. Wife's preferences are not preempted, MIL is given the chance to decide for herself if the print is bothersome, and husband can attempt to keep the peace between each of the women in his life, while behaving like a self-directed adult.

Mental Magpie

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #95 on: October 16, 2012, 01:22:59 PM »
But the wife is doing something...she's saying her preference overrules her husband's.

I think that the wife is saying that her preference overrules her MIL's.

It's the husband who want to take it down not the MIL. It's a preemptive move to avoid any unpleasantness. The wife seems to be gunning for confrontation or at the very least trying to back her husband into a corner and make him fight a fight he is just not prepared to have.

Yes, this - though I see both sides (husband's and wife's, that is).

MIL has not expressed a preference - ostensibly, she doesn't even know the print exists.

Husband is being backed into a corner, and I understand why he doesn't want to make waves with his mom.

Wife feels that her preferences in her home are being overruled (and, I suspect but can't confirm, of course, that this isn't the only situation in which she's felt like this or I doubt it'd be such a big deal).

Practically speaking, I would leave the print up if I were the husband. I wouldn't point out the print to MIL - I would wait to see if she expressed a problem with the print.  If she was offended, I would remove it with no further fanfare.  I think this gives all parties as equal footing as possible. Wife's preferences are not preempted, MIL is given the chance to decide for herself if the print is bothersome, and husband can attempt to keep the peace between each of the women in his life, while behaving like a self-directed adult.

It appears to me that the DH doesn't want to make waves with his mother, but doesn't care if he makes waves with his wife.  The wife, on some level, is aware of this and is trying to put her foot down, to get her DH to understand that her wants overrules her MILs especially when it comes to her own house.  Without more information, I can't say that for sure, but from a first read that was the impression I get.
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

White Lotus

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2012, 04:47:43 AM »
Hi, Margo. Yes, people very often show up with meat and say  "We brought DINNER," as though the Professor and I hadn't been cooking all day.  We are good cooks, too!  It happens often enough that we have the separate outdoor cooking area, etc.  I have never been anything but a veg, though the Prof became one in college, before we met, and the cooking smells squick us out (sorry, but it is true.) I would blast them to e-hell and back, but the Professor usually handles it, and more gently (I do love that man!), and it rarely happens twice, except with a very few people who do it specifically to be offensive, and whom we can't entirely avoid.  Which is why there is the faculty club, and there are also restaurants.  We do not invite them to our home again after a second violation.  These kind of people have been known to invite us and make sure there is absolutely nothing either of us can eat, not even the nibbles.  Yes, this stuff really happens, and I do not know why. This is not making reasonable accommodation for guests, which is the etiquette issue here, it is setting out to be deliberately offensive to one's hosts or one's guests, which is beyond rude, and a power play.  We avoid such people whenever humanly possible.   
The grace thing happens at other people's houses, mostly.  We have an invocation of gratitude for the life forms that make it possible for us to live and practice Buddhism -- there is no easier way to say it without getting into religion specifically, and we are not religiously obligate vegetarians -- but we do not do it out loud but rather quickly, personally and silently when we have non-OurSect guests or in other people's houses or restaurants.  And, yes, quite often I find my hands being grabbed.  I do not begrudge others their beliefs, certainly, and if they do not know us that well, I presume they are simply making "interesting assumptions,"  but it is hard to retrieve my hands without calling more attention to the issue than I would like.  We duck out if we can, of course, if it is not a sit-down dinner, though people may wonder what we are BOTH doing in the bathroom (evil grin).  If someone says, at our house, "Aren't you going to say grace," or something similar like, "I'd like to say grace," the Professor, as host, takes over and performs our invocation.  Which does not involve holding hands.  <G> 
As far as the art thing goes, I stick to my guns.  Display what you like, and so will we.  Even if it IS that three foot all p*nis or a Buddhist version of the Mapplethorpe print of Jesus which offends so many people.  Don't like it, don't look.  In your own home, you have the right to display the art that pleases you.  I don't have to look (I don't like the Mapplethorpe, personally, either, though it isn't religiously offensive to me).  But there we, as guests, have a choice -- to look or look away.  And so does the OP's MIL.

CinnamonGirl

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2012, 07:41:19 AM »
A woman wearing a dinosaur mask and cowboy boots...is it just me that thinks that it must be a cool painting?  ;D

If the nude picture was that of the husband and/or wife, I understand the husband wanting to hide it. But all that fuss for something that's hanging in the bathroom? I'd leave it there and if MIL is offended...tough cookies.

lurkerwisp

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #98 on: October 17, 2012, 04:38:24 PM »
A woman wearing a dinosaur mask and cowboy boots...is it just me that thinks that it must be a cool painting?  ;D

If the nude picture was that of the husband and/or wife, I understand the husband wanting to hide it. But all that fuss for something that's hanging in the bathroom? I'd leave it there and if MIL is offended...tough cookies.

It's not just you.  That sounds totally awesome to me.

But back on topic.  I don't know (because I'm not done reading all 7 pages of this thread) if anyone's said it yet, but it sounds to me like this isn't really about making a guest comfortable.  It sounds like the wife isn't happy that her art choice is being deemed "pornography" by her husband with the excuse that he's just saying that his mother would object.  He's letting his mom make a statement about his wife's moral choices by proxy.  Taking down the "pornographic" art to appease his mother tells his wife that he agrees with mommy dearest that his wife has poor (possibly immoral) taste.

If I had actual pornography on my wall, yes, I'd take it down to make my guest comfortable.  If I had art containing nudity on my wall, I wouldn't.  I wouldn't put shorts on David, a towel over the Valpinçon Bather, or hide an awesome print of a woman in a dinosaur mask and cowboy boots, since these are not pornographic images.  If someone else were to inform me that they were, I'd be personally a bit offended by their criticism.  It's not for someone else to impose their censorship over the walls of my home.

Sharnita

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #99 on: October 17, 2012, 04:56:24 PM »
Isn't it his home too?

Twik

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #100 on: October 17, 2012, 05:16:47 PM »
If I greatly admire President X and have a large portrait of him, preferably one with eyes that follow you around the room....

I want one of these. In fact, I'd like to line a room with such portraits of all presidents, past and present. Best yet, make it the guest bedroom. That will keep pesky parents from visiting for long!
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Onyx_TKD

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #101 on: October 17, 2012, 05:47:12 PM »
Isn't it his home too?

It is his home as well, so he and his wife both have a say in the decor. They apparently made the joint decision to frame this photo and hang it in the bathroom. He states in the letter that he himself bought the print and does not object to it in principal.

Now, he wants to invite a guest into their joint home, and wants to take down this piece of decor to accommodate his guest. His wife does not object to having this guest in their home, but does not want to change the decor while hosting. In the letter, he says that his wife's argument is that "this is her space and if someone doesn't like the picture, that's their problem." I read that as saying that she does not want to host guests in her own home if they cannot accept her home and tastes as they are. I don't think this is unreasonable.

His wife does not have the right to dictate their decor, because it is his home too. But equally, he does not have the right to invite guests into that home if it makes his wife uncomfortable, because it is her home too. His wife is willing to host his parents, and has compromised in the past about taking down the print. Now she's indicated that she doesn't want to take down the print to accommodate guests who object to it. Time to find a new compromise (or better yet, figure out if a compromise is even needed--his mother might not actually mind the print).

Georgie

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #102 on: October 18, 2012, 01:57:26 AM »
I  make decor changes for guests.
     
        I pick up all the socks from the living room.  I vacuum the rug. I hide the dirty dishes in the dishwasher. My husband hardly recognizes the house.

alis

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #103 on: October 18, 2012, 07:27:13 AM »
I think it is fair to expect reasonable accommodation in some circumstances.

For example, an omnivore should not expect to be served meat in the home of a vegetarian if it violates their ethical beliefs (some vegetarians are not that way by ethics, such as myself, so I don't mind cooking meat for them).

My MIL expects us to attend her home for 4 days straight (with a 6 hour drive to boot, which is a pain for us), then YES, I do expect her to REASONABLY "child proof" her home in that she should remove tiny glass ornaments from reaching hands (our son is too young to understand) and to not be upset when the tyke is up at 5am to play, as usual, again, he cannot be reasoned with.

When we visit childless friends for a couple of hours, then no, we don't expect them to childproof.

So, "reasonable" is the term here....

ettiquit

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Re: Changing something for guests
« Reply #104 on: October 18, 2012, 09:30:33 AM »
I  make decor changes for guests.
     
        I pick up all the socks from the living room.  I vacuum the rug. I hide the dirty dishes in the dishwasher. My husband hardly recognizes the house.

Ok, this made me laugh.  ;D