Changing something for guests

[Sophia]

I would never have anything displayed in the public area of my home that I would ever take down.  It just wouldn't be there in the first place. 

[KitKat]

Is anyone else wondering if the photo is of the wife, creating a slightly different issue?

I don’t think so. I think I have an idea of the print they are referring to. I can’t remember where I saw it, and I can’t Google it at the moment; but I can picture it in my head. I may be wrong, the one I am thinking of looks a little more like a pin-up girl drawing than a photograph.

ETA: I am not sure what i would do. I have a print that used to be in my bathroom that could have been offensive to some. My solution was to hang it inside my bathroom closet door.  Don't want to be offended by my oddball tastes? Don't poke your nose where it doesn't belong. That was my decision, though, not one that was pressed upon me so the circumstances are quite different.

When I originally read the chat I thought it said photograph, making it possible that it was more personal.  It actually says print of a photograph-making it pretty likely that it was mass produced.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Girlie]

You're certainly not required to make such accomodations, but if it's the matter of one picture that could be easily removed or something of that nature, and the guest is someone you care about and wish to be comfortable - why not?
It's easy to become offended because you don't think you should have to remove it, but then you have to also be willing to accept the repercussions of what that could mean for your relationship with that person.

If it were me and I had a dear friend or loved one who had nude pictures on display (minus things like photos of the David, or something), I would feel immensely uncomfortable. They would not have to take them down for me, and I would be very polite, but the visit would be short, and it would be the last.

Just curious, but where do you draw the line? It's still artwork depicting the nude form, whether it's from 1504 or 2004.

Could be the difference between the nudes you know and the nudes you don't know 

 

lol. Well, the David has been historically considered a masterpiece for centuries. Anything that has been widely and historically accepted as being artistically acceptable... It's not likely to bother me personally.

That being said, were my grandmother still alive and I had a statue replica of the David in my home... I would still move it temporarily during her visits. Not because I find anything wrong with it, but because I loved her, and I wanted her to be comfortable in my home and I would have wanted her to WANT to come back. So, it would have been worth it, IMHO.

[sparksals]

You're certainly not required to make such accomodations, but if it's the matter of one picture that could be easily removed or something of that nature, and the guest is someone you care about and wish to be comfortable - why not?
It's easy to become offended because you don't think you should have to remove it, but then you have to also be willing to accept the repercussions of what that could mean for your relationship with that person.

If it were me and I had a dear friend or loved one who had nude pictures on display (minus things like photos of the David, or something), I would feel immensely uncomfortable. They would not have to take them down for me, and I would be very polite, but the visit would be short, and it would be the last.

You are certainly entitled to your feelings, but I can't help but feel that is a huge overreaction.  You won't ever go to a friends house ever again b/c of a tasteful nude picture?  If it is a dear friend, I would think you would be more tolerant. 

Like most everyone else, if someone doesn't like the decor in my home, they don't have to visit.  If they were critical or asked me to remove it, they wouldn't be invited again and they certainly wouldn't be considered a friend if they requested it be removed. 

The reverse could be said about the dearness of your friend.  If htey are such a dear friend to *you* wouldn't you be willing to let something like this that is in their own home slide? 

[sparksals]

I hide the bacon if there are any muslims around.

Wait...huh? You know that the mere absence of pork products is not what makes a kitchen compliant with Halal or Kosher laws, yes?

I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but that sounded awfully dismissive of people's sincerely-held religious beliefs, not to mention that it sounds like you don't trust your Muslim or Jewish friends to behave nicely/not pitch a fit in a non-Halal or Kosher environment.

Let's calm down everyone, I read this as Pippen just using the phrase "I hide" to mean that she doesn't serve bacon when she has Muslim guests, and she didn't say a word about trying to comply with Kosher laws.  I don't think she is being dismissive of others' beliefs at all.

I'm not sure who is supposed to calm down? Moray was asking a perfectly reasonable question.  If Moray hadn't asked it I'm sure someone else would have.  And frankly Pippen's post did seem rather dismissive.

 I read Pippen's post as NyaChan did.  Apparently, it can go both ways.  I didn't see it dismissive at all.  Let's chalk it up to different interpretations.  Besides, one of the rules here is not to assume offense is intended by one's post.  The suggestion to calm down was to prevent the thread from going in the wrong direction as can happen when it diverts as it did.   

[sparksals]

I hide the bacon if there are any muslims around.

Wait...huh? You know that the mere absence of pork products is not what makes a kitchen compliant with Halal or Kosher laws, yes?

I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but that sounded awfully dismissive of people's sincerely-held religious beliefs, not to mention that it sounds like you don't trust your Muslim or Jewish friends to behave nicely/not pitch a fit in a non-Halal or Kosher environment.

Let's calm down everyone, I read this as Pippen just using the phrase "I hide" to mean that she doesn't serve bacon when she has Muslim guests, and she didn't say a word about trying to comply with Kosher laws.  I don't think she is being dismissive of others' beliefs at all.

Exactly. I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with it at all. It's just something I remove so they don't feel squicky about it. Some people might be fine with it but some might be revolted by it. I came home one day to some visitors frying chicken hearts. The smell was diabolical and the thought of eating them left me gagging. Even just seeing them made me feel ill and I banned them from the house. I could imagine someone who has a cultural or religious view on pork products having a much greater aversion to it and removing it is just being sensitive to things may not like being around.

I worked with a lovely and very observant Jewish girl and if we went out to lunch with her we would always choose a place which had the lowest probability of serving anything with pork or seafood. She couldn't eat with us because it wasn't Kosher food but it was for the sociability of it. We could hardly invite her for lunch even if she wasn't eating and have her be around things that she would be grossed out by.

See this post, especially the last line still seems a bit dismissive.  I've had quite a few Muslim friends and roughly a quarter of my family is Jewish and not once have  any of them been "grossed out" by non Halal/Kosher food.  To me "grossed out" is the way middle school students act when faced with unidentifiable mystery meat in the cafeteria.  I expect more from adults.

Maybe dismissive isn't the word I'm looking for, but I get the sense that you think you are being proactive in trying to "protect" people, which is sweet but not really necessary.

I think you are looking for offense when none is intended.  I see you are rather new here and you may not know that diverting threads in this manner usually doesn't have a good outcome.  Pippen explained herself, NyaChan explained how she interpreted Pippen's posts.  Let's not derail the thread by criticizing word choice and assuming Pippen was being dismissive . It sounds like you have a personal stake since you have Jewish family.   Please don't turn this into a religious topic b/c it is sure to get locked.

[Girlie]

You're certainly not required to make such accomodations, but if it's the matter of one picture that could be easily removed or something of that nature, and the guest is someone you care about and wish to be comfortable - why not?
It's easy to become offended because you don't think you should have to remove it, but then you have to also be willing to accept the repercussions of what that could mean for your relationship with that person.

If it were me and I had a dear friend or loved one who had nude pictures on display (minus things like photos of the David, or something), I would feel immensely uncomfortable. They would not have to take them down for me, and I would be very polite, but the visit would be short, and it would be the last.

You are certainly entitled to your feelings, but I can't help but feel that is a huge overreaction.  You won't ever go to a friends house ever again b/c of a tasteful nude picture?  If it is a dear friend, I would think you would be more tolerant. 

Like most everyone else, if someone doesn't like the decor in my home, they don't have to visit.  If they were critical or asked me to remove it, they wouldn't be invited again and they certainly wouldn't be considered a friend if they requested it be removed. 

The reverse could be said about the dearness of your friend.  If htey are such a dear friend to *you* wouldn't you be willing to let something like this that is in their own home slide? 

No, I don't think so. I'd be open to spending time out and about, or having them come over to my home, if they were comfortable. I would never ask them to remove their photos or posters or whatever they had. That doesn't mean that I would have to accept the discomfort that it would bring me.

To me (and I realize that my feelings are not shared by everyone), it really is that cut and dry. I don't want to see it, so instead of making a big deal about it or allowing a situation where I KNOW I would be unhappy to occur - I just avoid it altogether.

But still, to each their own.

[sourwolf]

I hide the bacon if there are any muslims around.

Wait...huh? You know that the mere absence of pork products is not what makes a kitchen compliant with Halal or Kosher laws, yes?

I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but that sounded awfully dismissive of people's sincerely-held religious beliefs, not to mention that it sounds like you don't trust your Muslim or Jewish friends to behave nicely/not pitch a fit in a non-Halal or Kosher environment.

Let's calm down everyone, I read this as Pippen just using the phrase "I hide" to mean that she doesn't serve bacon when she has Muslim guests, and she didn't say a word about trying to comply with Kosher laws.  I don't think she is being dismissive of others' beliefs at all.

Exactly. I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with it at all. It's just something I remove so they don't feel squicky about it. Some people might be fine with it but some might be revolted by it. I came home one day to some visitors frying chicken hearts. The smell was diabolical and the thought of eating them left me gagging. Even just seeing them made me feel ill and I banned them from the house. I could imagine someone who has a cultural or religious view on pork products having a much greater aversion to it and removing it is just being sensitive to things may not like being around.

I worked with a lovely and very observant Jewish girl and if we went out to lunch with her we would always choose a place which had the lowest probability of serving anything with pork or seafood. She couldn't eat with us because it wasn't Kosher food but it was for the sociability of it. We could hardly invite her for lunch even if she wasn't eating and have her be around things that she would be grossed out by.

See this post, especially the last line still seems a bit dismissive.  I've had quite a few Muslim friends and roughly a quarter of my family is Jewish and not once have  any of them been "grossed out" by non Halal/Kosher food.  To me "grossed out" is the way middle school students act when faced with unidentifiable mystery meat in the cafeteria.  I expect more from adults.

Maybe dismissive isn't the word I'm looking for, but I get the sense that you think you are being proactive in trying to "protect" people, which is sweet but not really necessary.

I think you are looking for offense when none is intended.  I see you are rather new here and you may not know that diverting threads in this manner usually doesn't have a good outcome.  Pippen explained herself, NyaChan explained how she interpreted Pippen's posts.  Let's not derail the thread by criticizing word choice and assuming Pippen was being dismissive . It sounds like you have a personal stake since you have Jewish family.   Please don't turn this into a religious topic b/c it is sure to get locked.

Interesting interpretation.  I wasn't actually offended at all by Pippen's posts, but I do find it a bit of an "interesting assumption" that I was trying to turn it into a religious topic.  As you point out I'm fairly new and as such I did make sure to read all of the rules and replies before I began posting.   As for derailing the topic, wouldn't a PM explaining everything I did wrong have been more effective than derailing the thread by continuing to chastise me? (Two posts in a row seems a bit much.)

I'm perfectly willing to let it go, and in fact was quite satisfied with Pippen's reply to me, hence the fact that I didn't continue the discussion after that point.

[Sharnita]

Girlie, I get that.  In some cases it might not actually be that you are really offended, either. I am depressed enough by my naked body in the bathroom having another naked female body in there with me might be more depressing.

[miranova]

I think the photo is just a symbol of all the ways that the wife has to cater to her MIL to avoid upsetting her, and she is just sick of it.  I know, I know, interesting assumption.  However, that's how it reads to me.

I'm trying to decide if I'd take the photo down or leave it up.  My in laws are offended by body piercings (other than ears), alcohol, and many other things.  However I was not about to take my navel piercing out when we all went swimming and it was visible.  I would not even consider doing that and honestly it would never occur to me.  They were probably also offended that I was in a two piece bathing suit now that I think about it. 

Personally, I have a thing about people needing to like me for who I am or hey, don't like me at all, that's cool too.  Your choice.  But I'm not going to hide who I am for anybody.  I'm not sure I'd have a nude photo on display personally, but if I did, I don't think I would have ever started taking it down. 

As far as hosting, I definitely find out what people like and stock it.  I already drink coffee but even if I didn't I'd keep a coffee maker in the house for guests.  I see these things as hospitality, not changing who I am.  Afterall, it's not like I'd prettend to drink coffee myself if I wasn't already a coffee drinker.  I'm just offering it.

[ettiquit]

I'm going with the your house you have the right to your decor. I wouldn't remove a cross on the wall if I had an atheist in the house, but if I an item depicting the flying spaghetti monster I wouldn't remove it for a Christian or any person of any faith.

It took me three times to spell spaghetti. 

This sort of thing is what my mind immediately went to. 

I will buy my parents favorite brand of soda even though I think it tastes like swill, but I will not remove my "New Humanist" magazines from my coffee table even though they hate the fact that I'm an atheist.

I won't take the FSM decal off the back of my car either. 

[Onyx_TKD]

I think the photo is just a symbol of all the ways that the wife has to cater to her MIL to avoid upsetting her, and she is just sick of it.  I know, I know, interesting assumption.  However, that's how it reads to me.

I'm trying to decide if I'd take the photo down or leave it up.  My in laws are offended by body piercings (other than ears), alcohol, and many other things.  However I was not about to take my navel piercing out when we all went swimming and it was visible.  I would not even consider doing that and honestly it would never occur to me.  They were probably also offended that I was in a two piece bathing suit now that I think about it. 

Personally, I have a thing about people needing to like me for who I am or hey, don't like me at all, that's cool too.  Your choice.  But I'm not going to hide who I am for anybody.  I'm not sure I'd have a nude photo on display personally, but if I did, I don't think I would have ever started taking it down. 

As far as hosting, I definitely find out what people like and stock it.  I already drink coffee but even if I didn't I'd keep a coffee maker in the house for guests.  I see these things as hospitality, not changing who I am.  Afterall, it's not like I'd prettend to drink coffee myself if I wasn't already a coffee drinker.  I'm just offering it.

Thank you. This is exactly how I read that letter, but I couldn't come up with a good, concise way to say it.

When I read the letter, I guessed that this is the wife's way of saying "I'm tired of hiding my personality and my tastes from your mother in my own home, as if they're something to be ashamed of and have to be hidden just in case your mother reacts badly. If she cannot accept us as we are and at least tolerate or ignore what she disapproves of about our tastes, then she doesn't need to be staying in our home for days at a time." If that interpretation is correct, then I'm totally on the wife's side. If the husband really feels he has to conceal certain aspects of his family and home from his mother (and it sounds like he doesn't mind any other guests seeing the nude photo, just his mother) despite his wife's feelings, then he should find a way of doing so that doesn't involve his wife having to "hide" in her own home. E.g., maybe he should find ways to visit with his mother that don't involve her staying at his home. If he visits with his mother at her home, or takes her out to dinner, etc., then she'll never see the nude photo.

[darkprincess]

I have been having a similar situation. MIL is offended by Harry Potter books and movies, gargoyle statues, nude photos, toys that represent magic (wands, fairy wings, witch hats etc). Soon after we were married and then had kids I asked DH if he wanted to discreetly but these things out of eyesight. I wanted to try to have a good relationship with MIL. He said not to worry about it, and even watched a Harry Potter movie when she came over. She was working with me on the computer in another room and could not hear or see it from the room we were in.

Of course I have been blamed for all of these things being in the house. She has accused me of leading DH astray. I am glad that DH did not suggest we hide who we were and what we liked. It hasn't helped my relationship with MIL but it has made me know without doubt the DH loves me and will stand up for himself, me, and our life together even at the expense of his relationship with his Mother.

We set a boundary and we stick too it. Even with these firm boundaries MIL has tried to cross them. I am confident that DH will work with me to find a boundary together and stick with it with anyone and that has been worth everything especially with children.

There are several things we have decided to do and not do:

We do buy guests favorite drinks, follow dietary restrictions of guests, accommodate disabilities and medical needs when we can do it safely, but we do NOT hide or remove coffee machines, meat, or alcohol if a guest finds them objectionable. We also do not redecorate the house.

When my father's girlfriend used a walker we hosted them at other locations due to our house only being accessible by steps. She requested that we carry her up the steps and let her sleep on the floor because we didn't have a guest room at the time. We let her know that wasn't possible.

[Outdoor Girl]

I have been having a similar situation. MIL is offended by Harry Potter books and movies, gargoyle statues, nude photos, toys that represent magic (wands, fairy wings, witch hats etc). Soon after we were married and then had kids I asked DH if he wanted to discreetly but these things out of eyesight. I wanted to try to have a good relationship with MIL. He said not to worry about it, and even watched a Harry Potter movie when she came over. She was working with me on the computer in another room and could not hear or see it from the room we were in.

That would have been ridiculous to put all of that out of sight!  But barring other issues, putting away one or two items while someone is a guest in my home is no big deal and I'd likely do it without being asked, since I hopefully know my guests well enough to know what would bother them.  But if it meant wholesale redecorating of my home?  Not going to happen.

[jmarvellous]

FWIW, being "anti-p*rn" does not equate to being anti-nude.

I know many people of this persuasion who were not offended by my naked pictures in my bathroom (albeit pictures of the David, which is why it's hilarious to me that that is the example being bandied about in this thread; these included a closeup of his rear). They are similarly unoffended by art that happens to contain bits of human flesh that are generally left unexposed in polite company. Another friend of this same crowd had 1930s 'pinups' (with minimal nudity) in her bathroom; these got more mixed reviews.

The two (anti-p*rn and anti-nude) are not necessarily related, and I'm left wondering whether this tizzy is all for naught. Perhaps the mother will see the artwork for what it is, and they're just far too worried about an as-yet imaginary offense.

In other words, I'd leave it up, and if a guest registered a complaint, I'd take it into consideration (and probably cover it, rather than take it down -- I'm very particular about picture hanging). I don't want people to be highly uncomfortable in my home.