Author Topic: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard! Update pg. 9, 15, 20, 29  (Read 73019 times)

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Shopaholic

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #105 on: September 08, 2012, 12:15:50 PM »
I didn't get that the whole exchange between Susan and Louise was by email.
If it was, I think Susan should forward it to her parents. She should let them know *in person* or on the phone, not by email, how hurt her feelings were and tell them that she feels unwanted and unwelcome in her brother's life, and therefore she and her family would not be attending the wedding, or any other celebration in her brother's life from then on.

Dave is a jerk, this is grounds for the Cut Direct and I am NOT a big fan of that.

Otterpop

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #106 on: September 08, 2012, 12:26:51 PM »
This is definitely a bullying situation.  It's exactly "you do what I want or be excluded."  The fact that this is an important family celebration and Susan can't change her disability makes it even more horrendous.  The bride's behavior should not be covered up by "polite discretion."  Parents need to be notified and involved.

Gail

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #107 on: September 08, 2012, 12:34:34 PM »
Posting for updates.

Oh, and I hope the groom's parents get forwarded with the email and intervene. This a family problem, not just a problem between two adult women.
The last time I said what I was really thinking there was an "intervention".

DistantStar

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #108 on: September 08, 2012, 12:59:12 PM »
How is this not a bullying situation?  Honest question.  I can't see it as anything else.

JenJay

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #109 on: September 08, 2012, 01:01:00 PM »
I am not suggesting that the sister stay silent, I am suggesting that she deal with her sister in law, possible her brother. I was taught that when adults have a personal conflict, then the adults involved that deal with it, they don't drag the rest of the family into it, or try to make people hate the other person. Would it be acceptable for the bride to go to her family and tell them how horrible (she feels) the sister is being? No one in this situation is a child, their parents do not need to be involved.
It is not giving in to deal with private problems privately. She should go right up to her sister in law and tell her exactly what she thinks of the situation, and tell her brother as if needs be (he is directly involved in the situation). If she feels her sister in law is being a bigot then she should tell her so. Then the three of them (I'm including the brother) can try to work out their problems, or go their separate if all else fails.

The sister is not being abused, or bullied. In one instance, her sister in law was terribly mean to her.
Without background, pattern of behavior, or any other information what so ever, the bride had been dubbed a bully and the sum of all evils. It has been suggested that the sister attempt to ruin her brothers wedding by convincing everyone not to show up, send mass emails telling everyone what a horrible person the bride is, and attempt have her publicly shunned. Can people really say this is not retaliation?

I have seen on this board, that people can terrible hang ups over things that I find to be ridiculous. Everyone has them, (including me) especially to things that have never been part of their reality. These things take time to adjust to. Sometimes people say terrible mean heartless things, and until the person that was hurt points them out they don't realize just how bad it is. Maybe they will have a moment of clarity, maybe they will just go on being a horrible person, the only way to find out is for person they hurt to tell them just how appalling their behavior was.
If you were judged only by your worst moment would you come out smelling like a rose?

Dignity and grace are do not go away when someone else is crass or nasty, that is when they are needed the most.

I agree with you about dignity and grace. And I don't think Susan should go around trying to get people to boycott the wedding.

But how, exactly, can she explain to her parents why she is not attending her brother's wedding? I don't think she should lie and say there's been a "falling out."

To go from being a member of the wedding party to not being invited at all--that's pretty big. And I suspect that the parents on both sides are going to want to know why.

And I don't think Susan should lie or cover up the facts in any way. The chances are high that Susan will be excluded from other events hosted by her brother and FSIL. Should Susan have to cover up for her SIL again and again?

I'd suggest that Susan refer all questioners to her FSIL for answers, but sadly, I'm not sure Louise can be trusted to respond with the truth.

The first thing I would do is contact my bother and say "Just so we're clear, you and Louise don't want me at your wedding, even as a guest, if I don't wear my prosthetic and cover it with a long sleeve. Is that correct?" just in case Louise is doing this behind his back.

Next I'd let my parents and siblings know up front that I'd been uninvited. Something short and to the point like "I want to give you all a heads-up that I will not be at the wedding. I've heard from David and Louise and they don't want me there. This is very hard for me, and I don't want to contribute to more drama, but I thought it best if you all knew ahead of time so you'd be prepared for my absence." Inevitably someone (most likely everyone) will ask her why, and that's a tough one. I could sit here as a poster on an etiquette board and say she should reply that it'd be best to ask David, but honestly if these were my parents and siblings I'd probably say "Apparently they don't want me there unless I wear the prosthesis AND cover it with long sleeves. I've declined to do that, so, they told me not to come."

With acquaintances who noticed I wasn't there and asked about it later I'd say I wasn't invited and "You'll have to ask David and Louise." if they wanted to know why. I wouldn't run around "outting" them, but I absolutely would not allow anyone to float rumors that I'd behaved in an inappropriate way, refused to come, etc. so if anyone approached me and said "I heard you weren't there because X.", yes I would clear it up. There's nothing wrong with saying "Actually they asked me not to come because I choose not to wear a prosthetic arm." No way would i cover for them!

weeblewobble

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #110 on: September 08, 2012, 01:03:38 PM »
I think David needs to seriously consider whether Louise is someone he wants to marry.  What happens if he and this woman have a child with special needs?  Will she decide this child doesn't exist?

I don't see how Susan could NOT tell her parents what is happening in this situation.  They need to know what's going on so they're not blind-sided by her non-attendance.  It can be done in a non-drama queen manner.

Tabby Uprising

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #111 on: September 08, 2012, 01:14:11 PM »
I am not suggesting that the sister stay silent, I am suggesting that she deal with her sister in law, possible her brother. I was taught that when adults have a personal conflict, then the adults involved that deal with it, they don't drag the rest of the family into it, or try to make people hate the other person. Would it be acceptable for the bride to go to her family and tell them how horrible (she feels) the sister is being? No one in this situation is a child, their parents do not need to be involved.
It is not giving in to deal with private problems privately. She should go right up to her sister in law and tell her exactly what she thinks of the situation, and tell her brother as if needs be (he is directly involved in the situation). If she feels her sister in law is being a bigot then she should tell her so. Then the three of them (I'm including the brother) can try to work out their problems, or go their separate if all else fails.

The sister is not being abused, or bullied. In one instance, her sister in law was terribly mean to her.
Without background, pattern of behavior, or any other information what so ever, the bride had been dubbed a bully and the sum of all evils. It has been suggested that the sister attempt to ruin her brothers wedding by convincing everyone not to show up, send mass emails telling everyone what a horrible person the bride is, and attempt have her publicly shunned. Can people really say this is not retaliation?

I have seen on this board, that people can terrible hang ups over things that I find to be ridiculous. Everyone has them, (including me) especially to things that have never been part of their reality. These things take time to adjust to. Sometimes people say terrible mean heartless things, and until the person that was hurt points them out they don't realize just how bad it is. Maybe they will have a moment of clarity, maybe they will just go on being a horrible person, the only way to find out is for person they hurt to tell them just how appalling their behavior was.
If you were judged only by your worst moment would you come out smelling like a rose?

Dignity and grace are do not go away when someone else is crass or nasty, that is when they are needed the most.

I agree with you about dignity and grace. And I don't think Susan should go around trying to get people to boycott the wedding.

But how, exactly, can she explain to her parents why she is not attending her brother's wedding? I don't think she should lie and say there's been a "falling out."

To go from being a member of the wedding party to not being invited at all--that's pretty big. And I suspect that the parents on both sides are going to want to know why.

And I don't think Susan should lie or cover up the facts in any way. The chances are high that Susan will be excluded from other events hosted by her brother and FSIL. Should Susan have to cover up for her SIL again and again?

I'd suggest that Susan refer all questioners to her FSIL for answers, but sadly, I'm not sure Louise can be trusted to respond with the truth.

The first thing I would do is contact my bother and say "Just so we're clear, you and Louise don't want me at your wedding, even as a guest, if I don't wear my prosthetic and cover it with a long sleeve. Is that correct?" just in case Louise is doing this behind his back.

Next I'd let my parents and siblings know up front that I'd been uninvited. Something short and to the point like "I want to give you all a heads-up that I will not be at the wedding. I've heard from David and Louise and they don't want me there. This is very hard for me, and I don't want to contribute to more drama, but I thought it best if you all knew ahead of time so you'd be prepared for my absence." Inevitably someone (most likely everyone) will ask her why, and that's a tough one. I could sit here as a poster on an etiquette board and say she should reply that it'd be best to ask David, but honestly if these were my parents and siblings I'd probably say "Apparently they don't want me there unless I wear the prosthesis AND cover it with long sleeves. I've declined to do that, so, they told me not to come."

With acquaintances who noticed I wasn't there and asked about it later I'd say I wasn't invited and "You'll have to ask David and Louise." if they wanted to know why. I wouldn't run around "outting" them, but I absolutely would not allow anyone to float rumors that I'd behaved in an inappropriate way, refused to come, etc. so if anyone approached me and said "I heard you weren't there because X.", yes I would clear it up. There's nothing wrong with saying "Actually they asked me not to come because I choose not to wear a prosthetic arm." No way would i cover for them!

JenJay, I really like the wording you used especially because it highlights both Louise AND Dave made the decision.  Like some of us have posted, if Dave isn't outright defending his sister, he is just as complicit in this decision as Louise. 

What about this approach? If Dave "doesn't want to get in the middle of things", can Susan leverage that herself?  "Dave, I won't be in the wedding party, but I will be at your wedding without the prosthesis, okay?" That will either force him to make a decision or... if he waffles Susan can attend the wedding as a guest sans prosthesis. What's Louise going to do at the wedding? 

That's only if Susan would still want to go and if Dave doesn't outright side with his fiance.  If he doesn't tell Susan she can't come, I don't think Louise has the final say on the issue.  Does that make sense?  It's a wedding for both Dave and Louise after all. Can Louise disinvite a guest of Dave's for any reason?

AngelBarchild

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #112 on: September 08, 2012, 01:21:21 PM »
How is this not a bullying situation?  Honest question.  I can't see it as anything else.

Because there is no pattern of behavior. It is not bullying be nasty or mean to someone in a one time incident. If it was, everyone on the planet would be a bully, because everyone has done something awful to another person at some point. If everyone is a bully then the term loses all meaning.

Elfmama

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #113 on: September 08, 2012, 01:23:58 PM »

Anyway, if Susan ends up not attending she, of course, can send a gift to the happy couple.  Since she doesn't use the prosthetic arm, she can package it up with a card saying "since you seem so fond of it, may it find a new happy home with you".
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Tabby Uprising

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #114 on: September 08, 2012, 01:28:40 PM »
How is this not a bullying situation?  Honest question.  I can't see it as anything else.

Because there is no pattern of behavior. It is not bullying be nasty or mean to someone in a one time incident. If it was, everyone on the planet would be a bully, because everyone has done something awful to another person at some point. If everyone is a bully then the term loses all meaning.

From my perspective, it doesn't really change the situation any if we decide Louise's actions do or do not fit the definition of a bully.  She has acted atrociously.  Label it what we will, her actions are inexcusable. 

Additionally, I certainly feel that some things are so awful that a one-time only infraction is just as bad (if not worse) than a pattern of other behavior. 

Otterpop

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #115 on: September 08, 2012, 01:36:11 PM »
How is this not a bullying situation?  Honest question.  I can't see it as anything else.

Because there is no pattern of behavior. It is not bullying be nasty or mean to someone in a one time incident. If it was, everyone on the planet would be a bully, because everyone has done something awful to another person at some point. If everyone is a bully then the term loses all meaning.

From my perspective, it doesn't really change the situation any if we decide Louise's actions do or do not fit the definition of a bully.  She has acted atrociously.  Label it what we will, her actions are inexcusable. 

Additionally, I certainly feel that some things are so awful that a one-time only infraction is just as bad (if not worse) than a pattern of other behavior.

POD.  Eloquently stated.  Whatever label, bride's behavior is not acceptable even once and should be corrected, not acquiesced to.

OP, does Susan have a good relationship with her brother?  I can't understand why he doesn't object to his sister being excluded.

Chickadee

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #116 on: September 08, 2012, 01:41:39 PM »
How is this not a bullying situation?  Honest question.  I can't see it as anything else.

Because there is no pattern of behavior. It is not bullying be nasty or mean to someone in a one time incident. If it was, everyone on the planet would be a bully, because everyone has done something awful to another person at some point. If everyone is a bully then the term loses all meaning.

It goes far beyond bullying. It's unspeakable cruelty.

DistantStar

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #117 on: September 08, 2012, 01:45:10 PM »
You said it better than I could, Tabby Uprising.

I happen to think this incident more than crosses the line; it leaves the line lightyears behind.  I would be sadly disappointed in my brother if he married a woman who would treat me like that.  I'd strongly considering cutting him off.  I would definitely cut her off.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 01:48:38 PM by DistantStar »

DistantStar

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #118 on: September 08, 2012, 01:45:57 PM »
Oops, double post instead of an edit.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 01:47:57 PM by DistantStar »

RingTailedLemur

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Re: Possibly the most outrageous request I've ever heard!
« Reply #119 on: September 08, 2012, 01:49:44 PM »
How is this not a bullying situation?  Honest question.  I can't see it as anything else.

Because there is no pattern of behavior. It is not bullying be nasty or mean to someone in a one time incident. If it was, everyone on the planet would be a bully, because everyone has done something awful to another person at some point. If everyone is a bully then the term loses all meaning.

Distant Star said this was a bullying situation.  She didn't say that Louise was a bully, but that the behaviour was.  You don't need a pattern of behaviour to call out one instance of behaviour as "bullying", you only need that pattern of behaviour to label a person as a bully.