Author Topic: Wrong name and too many hands  (Read 10235 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

White Lotus

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 491
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2012, 12:53:10 AM »
OP here.  I suppose I am really worried about No.1 Sprout who is a new PhD clawing her way up an academic ladder.  Thanks for clarifying that for me.  Of course, she could handle it, I think when I am in my non-mother mind, so I can also reasonably suppose these other women can, too.
I am invulnerable as I am not employed by Huge U.  I could pull out his hair and scream to high heaven if I wanted to, or grab and twist somewhere lower (evil Lotus) but that would not be polite. I also have no authority whatsoever, for the same reason. What I have been saying sounds just about right, but I like the idea of looking at him like he rose from the swamp and adding, "So sad." Warms my heart just thinking about it.
 The idea of getting Professor Plum, who is bullit proof, to get the Powers That Be to include more about sexual harassment, which runs both ways, under social guises in orientation materials and doing a push on those sections of the employee and student manuals sounds great. He can use Sprout # 1 as a backstory reason, if he likes, to bring this on.  She is in neither of these fields and at Far Away U, so that is OK.

 I would not advocate my personal tactics to others, of course, in reacting to unwanted grabbing.  However, they have been successful enough to make the situation unlikely to recur <g>.  Ok, I will put something into motion, keep my mouth shut as far as speaking directly to others are concerned, and practice my "you are an alien from a very strange planet" look.  "So sad."  Can't wait to use it.

VorFemme

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 12599
  • Strolls with scissors! Too tired to run today!
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2012, 10:16:00 AM »
If there are any other students or staff at the school from the Deep South in the USA, you can always use the code phrase "bless his heart" (rough translation would be "because he needs something going for him, the rude moron!") - well - actually, it has a lot more meanings than that, but it's all in the tone of voice....so not easily explained over the internet.  It could also mean "blast the wretch"!

But any Southerner will know that it is not complimentary to the person so "blessed".
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

lilfox

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1784
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2012, 03:46:01 PM »
As for the name thing, I think the OP's response is good but it does show a reaction to Prof Jerk's style of (mis)introduction.  The straightforward correction ("Actually it's Dr. Lotus, nice to meet you") is perhaps a bit better because it indicates to the new person that Prof Jerk is incorrect without addressing it directly.  Why bother since Jerk is going to refuse to get it right?  Bonus points for a subtle stressing of both title and name, though.   ;)

For the grabby hands, my response is a little against the grain.  In a similar situation, I was given a vague forewarning about Dr. Grabby by a more senior (male) faculty member.  He didn't even mention Dr. Grabby directly but did say if I had any problems please don't hesitate to let him or someone else know.  Since I was only working with Dr. Grabby and from the slight hesitation and way he said "problems," the implication was pretty clear.  I was happy to have the heads up because it made me more vigilant. When Dr. Grabby did try to push some boundaries, I was able to deflect and manage the interactions early enough that it never got far enough to be a problem.

What I didn't like was finding out that, the year before, a previous female grad student had been in the same position as I was, and had received plenty of Grabby's unwanted attention.  And she could have warned me about him before I started working with him but chose not to, because she didn't want to 'bias' me against him.   :-\  Bias me against a known lech?  How about giving a heads up so I don't inadvertently put myself in a situation where I risk that kind of behavior?

People can and do pick up on that kind of bad behavior on their own, and you don't want to make a habit of pulling aside every female (or whoever) in the area for a warning chat.  But if the name or situation comes up in conversation, I think it's really okay to say hey, so-and-so has a tendency to <stand too close/give unsolicited hugs/grope/whatever>.   Given the choice between "once burned" and advance notice, give me advance notice anytime.

Slartibartfast

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 11614
    • Nerdy Necklaces - my Etsy shop!
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2012, 04:52:29 PM »
re: the name thing - if his opinion of you doesn't affect your ability to keep your job, I'd be pretty blunt in correcting him.  "It's Dr. Lotus, actually - I've been correcting GrabbyProf for years but he doesn't believe women can earn doctorates.  Nice to meet you."

dawbs

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4421
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2012, 05:00:48 PM »
could you offically "Red Card" him?
Since he can't hurt your career.
http://geekfeminism.org/2012/08/14/the-gamification-of-feminism/
(note, following the linkage will lead to links w/ NSFW language fairly quickly)

JeanFromBNA

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2218
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2012, 07:10:24 PM »
re: the name thing - if his opinion of you doesn't affect your ability to keep your job, I'd be pretty blunt in correcting him. "It's Dr. Lotus, actually - I've been correcting GrabbyProf for years but he doesn't believe women can earn doctorates seem to be able to remember.  Nice to meet you."
Truth.

jmarvellous

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3355
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2012, 07:37:14 PM »
When you say Sprout, do you mean your child?

If so, warn away. I just wouldn't do so for others, as it crosses a line in my mind to forewarn people who you don't know too well.

White Lotus

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 491
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2012, 11:26:05 PM »
Yes, the Sprouts are the kids.  We thought that sounded better than the rhizomes, flowers or fruits. Sprout #1 is a DD, and is fortunate to have her father's coaching about succeeding in academia.  She knows my approach, and would perhaps feel more comfortable addressing any such issues that come up for her with him as his solutions would be likely to further her career and mine might land her in jail. <G> I never went into academia because I would not work well in that environment, to put it mildly, and being a faculty wife, even though I have a doctorate and a career, and can limit my involvement, is just about all I can take.  Academics often poor-mouth and I think part of Prof. Jerk Grabbyhand's problem with me is that he thinks I make more than he does, and am considered an expert without -- gasp -- being an academic.  So I am adding two more things to my list, besides all your variations on the name theme.  One is the "red card" thing, which I plan to look up right now, and second is quietly and discreetly speaking to these young women, quite tactfully -- yes, I can do this -- and privately, when the opportunity arises.  Many of you know how it works in this environment: tell one, tell all.  Thank you all very much for excellent ideas.

O'Dell

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4372
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2012, 06:47:05 AM »
When he does this, I stick out my hand and say, in a friendly tone, "Hello, I am Dr. Lotus.  Better watch out for Professor Jerk.  He's quite forgetful.  He still can't get my name and title right after (a whole lot of) years." Anyone have a better way of handling this?  He is definitely being deliberately offensive.

How do people react when you say that? IMO, it makes you seem PA toward him and using me as a prop. And while I'd get what you were saying about Plum, I'd be wary of you as well. Honestly as an innocent bystander, I wouldn't want to be involved in knowing what the problem was between the two of you. Anyone that has to deal with Prof. Plum more closely can figure out on their own that he's a jerk.

You might be better off if you can preempt him in some way. You know it's coming so interrupt him and say your name first. Pretend you're just really enthusiastic. It also steals his thunder.

If there are any other students or staff at the school from the Deep South in the USA, you can always use the code phrase "bless his heart" (rough translation would be "because he needs something going for him, the rude moron!") - well - actually, it has a lot more meanings than that, but it's all in the tone of voice....so not easily explained over the internet.  It could also mean "blast the wretch"!

But any Southerner will know that it is not complimentary to the person so "blessed".

I was thinking along these lines as well. What you need is a code word or phrase that warns the students, but isn't explicit. But nothing is coming to my mind other than tone and facial expression to make your meaning known. I understand why you want to warn others, but in all cases that might not have the intended effect.

I like the suggestion to speak up when you see him doing it to others. I don't think standing up for others when they are being treated badly is rude. A woman being groped falls into that category for me.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.
Walt Whitman

VorFemme

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 12599
  • Strolls with scissors! Too tired to run today!
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2012, 12:01:20 PM »
The raised Spock eyebrow at Dr Grabby Jerk's faux pas of forgetting your name again might work - with a hint of "he's forgotten my name again?" in your tone of voice - but you might have to practice raising one eyebrow for a while in the mirror.

Leonard Nimoy does it so well.......he's certainly had enough time to practise!
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

Twik

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 28264
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2012, 01:22:27 PM »
When he does this, I stick out my hand and say, in a friendly tone, "Hello, I am Dr. Lotus.  Better watch out for Professor Jerk.  He's quite forgetful.  He still can't get my name and title right after (a whole lot of) years." Anyone have a better way of handling this?  He is definitely being deliberately offensive.

How do people react when you say that? IMO, it makes you seem PA toward him and using me as a prop. And while I'd get what you were saying about Plum, I'd be wary of you as well. Honestly as an innocent bystander, I wouldn't want to be involved in knowing what the problem was between the two of you. Anyone that has to deal with Prof. Plum more closely can figure out on their own that he's a jerk.

You might be better off if you can preempt him in some way. You know it's coming so interrupt him and say your name first. Pretend you're just really enthusiastic. It also steals his thunder.

Yes, but that also makes it look like Prof. Plum is a lovely man, and you're a graceless clod who interrupts him when he's doing the social niceties. It's sort of falling on your own sword.

I'd just trim down the OP's suggestion to"Hello, I am Dr. Lotus.  Bless your heart, Dr. Jerk, you never seem to remember!" Said with a smile.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Nuts&Makeup

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Glorious circle of unrepeatable definite articles
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2012, 07:41:36 PM »
I have trouble believing that a man who grabs colleagues and colleagues SOs with impunity stops at that. I think there are students he has molested but don't say anything because they see him grabbing women in public and its ok. Who would believe them if they tried to tell someone?


and second is quietly and discreetly speaking to these young women, quite tactfully -- yes, I can do this -- and privately, when the opportunity arises.  Many of you know how it works in this environment: tell one, tell all.  Thank you all very much for excellent ideas.

Oh yes!!!! You must tell them to be good little girls and not make a fuss. You can tell them how you deal with him so they won't rock the boat or ....heaven forbid.... actually demand something be done about him.


OP here.  I suppose I am really worried about No.1 Sprout who is a new PhD clawing her way up an academic ladder.  Thanks for clarifying that for me.  Of course, she could handle it, I think when I am in my non-mother mind, so I can also reasonably suppose these other women can, too.

So very sad that this is still the response of so many women and men. Let "men be men" and let girls and women watch out for their own selves.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 07:49:04 PM by Nuts&Makeup »

Garden Goblin

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 942
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2012, 08:21:04 PM »
So very sad that this is still the response of so many women and men. Let "men be men" and let girls and women watch out for their own selves.

Ditto.

The problem is when the victims do speak up, the 'oh stop being mean to the poor man/ being so sensitive / looking for offense he was just being friendly/is just socially awkward/ is old fashioned/ didn't mean anything by it.  Sheesh, can't you take a joke/take a compliment/stop being so divisive' crowd drown them up and essentially are the 'squeakier wheel'.

VorFemme

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 12599
  • Strolls with scissors! Too tired to run today!
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2012, 08:43:38 PM »
So very sad that this is still the response of so many women and men. Let "men be men" and let girls and women watch out for their own selves.

Ditto.

The problem is when the victims do speak up, the 'oh stop being mean to the poor man/ being so sensitive / looking for offense he was just being friendly/is just socially awkward/ is old fashioned/ didn't mean anything by it.  Sheesh, can't you take a joke/take a compliment/stop being so divisive' crowd drown them up and essentially are the 'squeakier wheel'.

I got told that I must be mistaken or have misunderstood Chief Grabby Jerk's intentions when he was grabbing at random items on the shelves at the same height as my backside and chest.  Yeah, right.  The 6' 2" male commander who outranked me with a date for promotion to full bird colonel (O-6) had never had Chief Grabby Jerk reaching for HIS backside or chest - but telling me that the two young females in the orderly room who were half Jerk's weight and an E-2 and an E-3 to his E-9 had NO REASON to be intimidated? 

I may have been an O-2 and a bit more than half his weight (I was in charge of physical fitness testing and did twice yearly weigh-ins - required by regulations - on everyone - I knew his weight, height, age, and how beg a jerk he was capable of being already).

The commander lost a lot of my respect and trust in that fifteen minute conversation.  Especially when I found out that he'd apparently told Grabby Jerk about it.  We had one female transfer out and be replaced by a guy - who was promptly put in charge of the supply room runs.  Grabby Jerk apparently didn't like it - but he couldn't very well come out and complain that the women no longer TRUSTED him in the supply room.  At least not to me or anyone else in the orderly room & commander's office (except the commander).
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

White Lotus

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 491
Re: Wrong name and too many hands
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2012, 08:47:00 PM »
Just FTR, Professor Plum is my husband. He is a good guy.  Professor Jerk Grabbyhand is the villain of the piece.

Oh, no, believe me, I won't tell them to be "good girls," and my husband wouldn't say that to our daughter or anyone else who might be affected.  It's just that I tend to be a little....uh....direct sometimes; as a result, when it comes to me, the villain now keeps a wary distance.  But he can't hurt either of us in any way, not even if I -- well, knocking him down and stomping his...  No. Don't even think about it.  That would not be polite (or deniable.) 

My husband knows much better how to address this situation in this environment in a way that would benefit the woman attacked, while besting the villain. He is pursuing the expanded orientation/training option for potential victims, BTW, as well as refresher courses for potential abusers. He is a DH and thinks I am funny, as well as perfectly capable of defending myself, but he does not want to see any woman treated in this way, especially those wno are at a power disadvantage.  He can work within the system.  I tend to be a subversive.

This is why I am not, repeat not, an academic. I don't function well in the environment. Again, thank you all for your insights.  Spock eyebrows.  I can learn that!