Author Topic: How to handle difficult meeting on interpersonal issues? Update New Question #48  (Read 12739 times)

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JoyinVirginia

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Re: How to handle difficult meeting on interpersonal issues? Update Post#26
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2012, 08:15:20 PM »
We still hold joint office until next spring.  For the good of the club there is work that needs to be done.  I don't know if Jen will just act like nothing happened, or what.  If I didn't hold this office and theoretically have to work side by side with her, I would pretty much give her the cut direct at this point.

I would give her the cut-direct anyway. Go to whomever is above you in the organization and bluntly tell them that you will no longer deal with her. Inform then that they now need to find a solution. Then leave it in their hands.
I agree with this. Or just do the work as if she doesn't exist. Cut her out of the loop.

GLaDOS

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Nutella, you seem like a genuinely good person, and it's a little bit of hope for humanity that you can still be concerned for Jen, even after what she's put you and the group through.

However.

Jen's "sadness" here is a pretty blatant continuation of the manipulation and pulling focus that she's used in the past. 

I totally get it when you say that her head is not a nice place to be, and you wish you could just clear out the muck so she can be a good, contributing member of the club. I do. However, the club is not a therapist's office. It is not the place for clearing out the muck.  She can't work out her own issues at the expense of all of these other people.

Tomas has had his reputation irrevocably  damaged (to some extent, at least)  because of her, and he ended up apologizing to her.  Sandy has endured childish abuse from a grown woman.  This local group planned,  prepared, and polished a presentation, giving up their own time, probably sitting out something fun or relaxing to get it done, only to have her throw a temper tantrum and have all their work tossed.  At the last minute.  For no reason, excptt Jen made a pouty face.
Projects (plural)  have failed because of her and people have been affected by it.

And this latest stint is just in the same vein. She "quit" because she was "bullied" (ie, not coddled like a  3 year old at a birthday party where she's not the birthday girl)

She whined until you gave in and she got her way, then tried to keep whining to make you give in with a smile. When that didn't work and you showed a speckle of backbone, she made a theater production of leaving the convention, and the organization. "Well, maybe I'll just quit!" is not a proper response to being asked to act like an adult. Clearly, she was expecting the organisation to fall all over themselves trying to win her back, and when she was met with general sighs of relief, she's trying to worm her way back in. She should not be allowed to.


The damage she is doing is outstripping the benefits she's offering. You yourself have been on the receiving end of her bargaining, which left her with  high-quality, custom costumes for basically free and on short notice, and you feeling used (because you were). Do you want someone like that representing the organization?

Jen is the very definition of toxic, and she's fully aware of what she's doing.
You cannot fix her. She doesn't want to be fixed. 

You should not allow her back in to her position. People don't get to flounce off from their jobs and come back whenever. Why should she be able to  be so untrustworthy here? Even if she comes back, how can you be sure the next time someone tells her to behave like a civilised human being, she won't abandon everything and leave someone in the lurch because her poor feelings got hurt?


Honestly, the powers that be of the organization need to remove her from her position. Let them know what's going on. Urge Sandy to get that email out of her trash and pass it on to people who can do something productive with it.

I'd say you need to act as if she's gone. If you have to recognize her presence, cold politeness.  Even if you don't you can't assume she'll even do the work she's assigned.
There's Science to do!

Otterpop

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The reason narcissists "N" get away with this junk is because people let them.  I was with you, until you said she wanted to do the presentation and you gave in.  That's outrageous.  The other members put in the time and effort and were totally usurped and disregarded.  Definitely NOT cool.

I was once one of the "disregarded."  I left the group without saying anything.  (People normally don't speak their mind they just walk).  Later, N ran the group into the ground by wanting none of the work but all of the recognition.  Shortly after, the group dissolved because of infighting between factions created by N and her henchwomen .  This could be the fate or your group if Jen is not booted now. 

Your group should have by-laws written up regarding members behavior (and Jen should have been nipped in the bud a long time ago).  Please accept her resignation and don't let her disrupt your organization again.

NutellaNut

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OP again!  I just want to clarify some things and update a little.

I've been in contact with Jen's mentor this whole time and she has been trying desperately to get Jen to behave better towards people.  However, I just found out that Jen has severed that relationship.  I do not know if there is anyone she will listen to even a little at this point.  I do have communication going with two people in positions in her home group because it potentially affects that group as well.

The positions Jen and I jointly hold are appointed jobs where we serve specific individuals in our club.  Our terms will end in less than 4 months.  I am not in charge of her in any way, and though I can talk to the higher-ups we serve, they pretty understandably don't want to be involved in unnecessary drama and it's been hard to know what to bring up.  It's pretty clear now, and I am working on contacting them.  They know that she "quit" but it's not clear what else she told them.  Unfortunately it's time to involve to one extent or another.  I'll let them know I'm willing to work with her if they request it (though nastygrams and discourtesies from her must stop) but that I am also prepared to handle the job solo if that is what is needed.  Anything to get thru the next four months!

I understand what you all are saying about letting her take away the presentation from the local group.  It wasn't the right choice, to give in because it was easier than enduring her upset.  Part of the problem is that this presentation is a somewhat nebulous tradition in the club: sometimes, the people in the office that Jen and I hold handle it, sometimes a local group does it.  Sometimes it doesn't happen at all.  Sometimes the details are worked out far in advance, or minutes beforehand.  Sometimes the person running the event handles all the details, sometimes someone in our jobs does, sometimes a totally different person, or we all just "wing it."   This time, Sandy and I thought we had things covered, with the local group preparing, but Jen thought it was her prerogative, once she knew she was at the event, to do the presentation herself.  And because there isn't and hasn't been a strong-set protocol to follow for planning that presentation, and she has this special position chosen by the higher-ups, it felt extremely awkward to tell her No, you can't butt in at the last minute. 

If you're thinking to yourself, "this group doesn't sound very organized," well, in some ways, we're not, about some things.  And while we have great leadership "within game," when it veers into interpersonal issues like these, the expertise folks have is variable.  And none of us are mental health professionals, equipped to handle the level of problems she has.  And the rules we have in place, the ways she could be disciplined, are very very rarely used and have huge negative meaning in our group, so people hesitate to make waves and suggest them. 

If she shows up at the next event, I'll be on the thin line of Cut direct/coldly polite.  If she tries to start talking about issues with me, I'll have a witness be on hand so there's no question as to what was said.  I am now taking appropriate steps to ensure that Higher-Ups and Powers-that-Be know of some of her troublesome behaviors - what steps they take will be up to them.  I will work with her as needed but at this point I could do almost all the work easily on my own.  I will try to focus the greatest amount of my attention on some of the great projects that my group has been working on - we're supposed to be having fun!  I'm going to make it fun again, durnit.

Queen of Clubs

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Jen is the very definition of toxic, and she's fully aware of what she's doing.
You cannot fix her. She doesn't want to be fixed. 

Why should she want to be fixed when how she is works so well for her?

Nutella, if the higher ups won't act, I think you should make Jen their problem.  Every email, every demand, every tantrum should be referred to them.  If they won't rein her in, she'll destroy your group.  Maybe once they start to see the consequences of not acting, they'll do something.

O'Dell

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We still hold joint office until next spring.  For the good of the club there is work that needs to be done.  I don't know if Jen will just act like nothing happened, or what.  If I didn't hold this office and theoretically have to work side by side with her, I would pretty much give her the cut direct at this point.

I would give her the cut-direct anyway. Go to whomever is above you in the organization and bluntly tell them that you will no longer deal with her. Inform then that they now need to find a solution. Then leave it in their hands.
I agree with this. Or just do the work as if she doesn't exist. Cut her out of the loop.

Yes yes yes. Didn't Jen say that she quit? Keep reminding her of that. Leave her off emails. Take over her duties. Don't consult with her.

I wouldn't go with a cut direct exactly. Be icy and only have enough contact with her to remind her "You said you quit, Jen. I'm simply taking you at your word." Don't listen to her. "Your problems are not my concern. This organization is my concern. I have things to do." And walk away/hang up/block her email.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.
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VorFemme

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Get your costumes back - if at all possible - something about them needing specialized cleaning and bit of mending.....just don't mention anything about her getting them back because then she will KNOW that you meant to give them to her.

I lost a child's costume to a SIL who trashed it after "borrowing" it some twenty-four years ago and I am still upset (could not replace it due to it having been reworked extensively from "Grandma's" holiday outfit with "jeweled" trim).  I never "loaned" her anything again...
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

TootsNYC

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The positions Jen and I jointly hold are appointed jobs where we serve specific individuals in our club. 

Who appointed you guys? That person can un-appoint Jen.

Quote
.... They know that she "quit" but it's not clear what else she told them.  Unfortunately it's time to involve to one extent or another.  I'll let them know I'm willing to work with her if they request it (though nastygrams and discourtesies from her must stop) but that I am also prepared to handle the job solo if that is what is needed.  Anything to get thru the next four months!

They don't need any of the rest of the complicated and messy background. She quit; and she has bee unreliable. Make sure they know that, and then say, "Given how much work there is, and that there would only be 4 months anyway, we can't just let her 'come back'--what if she quits in a snit again? That's unfair to the rest of us, when she's so unreliable."

And then just ignore her. She quit. End of story. She doesn't get to decide whether she starts up again. Don't get into any of the other parts. She quit in the middle of the year, and the rest of you guys didn't. And you have work to do.

Quote
This time, Sandy and I thought we had things covered, with the local group preparing, but Jen thought it was her prerogative, once she knew she was at the event, to do the presentation herself.  And because there isn't and hasn't been a strong-set protocol to follow for planning that presentation, and she has this special position chosen by the higher-ups, it felt extremely awkward to tell her No, you can't butt in at the last minute. 
"
Yes, there is--there's a long-standing protocol in the WORLD: "First come, first served." And "I got here first." And "I've already finished and you haven't even started."


Deetee

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Re: How to handle difficult meeting on interpersonal issues? Update Post#26
« Reply #68 on: November 05, 2012, 12:04:41 PM »
We still  hold We were to hold joint office until next spring.  For the good of the club there is work that needs to be doneand that will go better if she is not there.  I don't know if Jen will just act like nothing happened, or whatbut it doesn't matter because she has quit and I will not work with her  anymore.  If I didn't hold this office and theoretically have to no longer need to work side by side with herbecause she quit and the club will run better if she is not part of it , I would pretty much willgive her the cut direct at this point.



I fixed this for you because for the good of the club, for yourself and for all the other members this is how you should be thinking. WHY would you give her the power to stay in a position that she is terrible at and that she has quit. Why would you do that?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 12:14:28 PM by Deetee »

bopper

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You all need to block Jen from the email lists/discussion boards etc.