It's because of your kid UPDATE pg 6, 14

[BeagleMommy]

DH and I fit DS's routine around our lifestyle.  We didn't do the "silent house" thing because nothing would have gotten done if we did.

I seriously doubt that an 18 month old child will learn a dirty word that quickly.  Usually their just managing "mama" and "dada" at that age.  Very unlikely that an "F-bomb" will be dropped at that age (although I did have a cousin who used that word because that was how he pronounced "truck" at that age).

If Mary and Mark are unwilling to get a sitter for an occasional boisterous night out they can't expect the rest of the group to change their behavior for every get together.

Yes, your life changes direction after having a baby.  However, the world in general does not revolve around your child.

[CakeEater]

It really depends what kind of baby you have, whether you can fit them into your lifestyle as easily or not. It's not *all* about the parents' attitude. I had one baby who I could have taken anywhere, and one who needed strict routine or she made life for everyone pretty hellish. Same parents, same attitude.

OP, I don't think you should have to change your whole group, or fit everything around this couple. However, something to bear in mind is that if you're all couples in your mid-twenties, it's fairly likely that more/many/most of you will be having kids in the next 5-10 years, and that the group might adjust more towards brunch in the park regardless. This might be the start of a trend, rather than one isolated couple, and it might be an idea to think about how you'll all react when it's two or three couples with kids, rather than just one.

And it's great to have all the best intentions in the world of being the kind of parent who just gets a babysitter and goes on with their life (me), but then you get a baby who screams blue murder if she's out past a certain time, and at 8 months, decides she just won't go to a babysitter, without all the screaming. It's hard work, and a bit of adjustment from my friends so I could see them occasionally was really greatly appreciated.

[Sharnita]

DH and I fit DS's routine around our lifestyle.  We didn't do the "silent house" thing because nothing would have gotten done if we did.

I seriously doubt that an 18 month old child will learn a dirty word that quickly.  Usually their just managing "mama" and "dada" at that age.  Very unlikely that an "F-bomb" will be dropped at that age (although I did have a cousin who used that word because that was how he pronounced "truck" at that age).

If Mary and Mark are unwilling to get a sitter for an occasional boisterous night out they can't expect the rest of the group to change their behavior for every get together.

Yes, your life changes direction after having a baby.  However, the world in general does not revolve around your child.

I think it really depends on the 18 month old.  My nephew is that age and he knows an amazing number of words: clock, train, truck, help, hi, bye, hair, eyeball, zipper, moon, nose, hair, bunny, puppy, turtle, frog... I think he probably adds 2-6 words a week and he pays close attention to what we are saying so he can learn the words for everything.  He would likely pick up on a new word so it could be a valid concern.

[SuperMartianRobotGirl]

I agree that it depends on the kid. My oldest would sleep through anything, and I thought it was because I was never careful or quiet around her when she was sleeping. But no, the second one actually need it to be quiet while she slept no matter what I did.

[gadget--gal]

DH and I fit DS's routine around our lifestyle.  We didn't do the "silent house" thing because nothing would have gotten done if we did.

I seriously doubt that an 18 month old child will learn a dirty word that quickly.  Usually their just managing "mama" and "dada" at that age.  Very unlikely that an "F-bomb" will be dropped at that age (although I did have a cousin who used that word because that was how he pronounced "truck" at that age).

If Mary and Mark are unwilling to get a sitter for an occasional boisterous night out they can't expect the rest of the group to change their behavior for every get together.

Yes, your life changes direction after having a baby.  However, the world in general does not revolve around your child.

I think it really depends on the 18 month old.  My nephew is that age and he knows an amazing number of words: clock, train, truck, help, hi, bye, hair, eyeball, zipper, moon, nose, hair, bunny, puppy, turtle, frog... I think he probably adds 2-6 words a week and he pays close attention to what we are saying so he can learn the words for everything.  He would likely pick up on a new word so it could be a valid concern.

POD


plus, some kids learn things and use them later when they've 'learned' the context. last year I had a 20-month old chide me with "don't do that ava again!". when I told her mother jokingly, she was really surprised because the baby had never said that aloud before. It turned out this was what the mother used as a telling off for her siblings and the baby picked it up

[darkprincess]

DH has a regular event with friends that is loud and boisterous with lots of adult verbage. For a long time we were the only one with kids, recently another couple in the group had a child.

DH can attend more of these event if they are at our house, so he talked with the group about our house becoming the location. I assumed that the event would continue to be loud and boisterous with lots of adult verbage. When we invited them to our house we knew that the nature of the event would not change and we always had the option of having it at someone else's house.

Only once did a member of the group complain about how our child changed the dynamic and it happened three years after they started meeting at our house. They met in one room and DD hung out in another room watching tv. Sometimes she would pick a show that the group liked and the event would get distracted by the tv. They are a bunch of geeks  and DD liked to watch the cartoon of Star Trek, and the Lord of the Rings cartoons. I figured that they had to figure that out for themselves but I told them I would try to steer DD into cartoons that they wouldn't like such as Disney Princesses

Once they did try to meet at another house and we recognized that their is nothing wrong with that and we will have to figure out what we will do, take turns, babysitter, etc. They discovered they liked our house better and came back.

On a side note DD can sleep through anything, and we have explained to her time, place appropriateness in language.
I think compromise is required on both sides and it doesn't seem that they parents the OP talks about are willing to compromise.

[Deetee]

I found that the lifestyle didn't change until the majority of our friends had kids.

With our friends that have kids we have afternoon get togethers and dinner around 5:30 or 6:00 so we have plenty of time to eat dinner while the kids run and play and before anyone gets too tired or cranky.

With our friends that don't have kids, we will have dinner at 7:30 or 8:00 (sometimes the invite is for then) after our kidlet is in bed. It's just easier for everyone.

Most of our dinners are early now, though tonight I will be heading out for dinner and my husband will be child-wrangling. We used to do a lot more of that, but then we found that we were spending time at work, with the kid, and with our friends as we kept up our pre-kid lifestyle but almost no time with one another.

When we didn't have kids, I loved to meet my friends at a park for a gourmet picnic lunch while the kids run around and played. It was so much easier to chat.

I realise this has little to do with the OP, but I think there is solid agreement that their behaviour is not based on the kid, but on the parents.

[nolechica]

I'm curious how willing the group would be the do girl/guy nights or other such half way things, and how much of the group doesn't want to return to Mary/Mark's in the foreseeable future.  If most of the group wants bar/bowling meetups to continue, then Mark/Mary should be invited as usual, if halfway is doable, then that should be discussed.  As someone whose parents host parties a good bit because they have the largest space, I'd go with not enough room if they ask why people won't come to them.

[Venus193]

 I'd go along with the ban on cursing near the child during waking hours, as the child is now just old enough to pick up words they'd rather he didn't.  However, I think the couple with the baby also needs to get over themselves about sitters and the quiet house thing.

[Devix]

Girls/Guys night out is simply not an option because, frankly, no one wants to do them.  We like hanging out with each other as a group and for a lot of people who are working full time and going to school full time, these little outings are some of the few chances they have to actually go out and have fun with their S/O.  I have friends that I love doing "Girls night out" with but none of them are part of this particular group of people.  Honestly, the group was formed so we could all have fun doing couple-ish activities without annoying our single friends.  There is also the matter of fact that we also have a gay couple in the group and this is a terrible idea.  Matt pretty much stated "I don't want sit around watching football and drinking beer with the guys.  I'd rather get drinks and go dancing but that sure as sh*t doesn't make me a girl."

I'm really not looking for ways to do little half-way things right now because they really won't work for the situation.  I was just asking on what to tell Mary when she asks why we don't want to go to her house.  I certainly like Oh Joy's approach as it still opens the invitation up to them without forcing us to cancel our plans.   

As for other people in the group having children...it's a long story but chances are that only one other couple will actively try to have kids.  More than likely, the rest of us will remain child-free and while the group dynamics will change, they probably won't change in that direction.

Based on OP's description of the group as boistrous is sounds like they are a bit louder than normal conversation.  I am not sure if the parents are asking for whispers or that people refrain from shouting.

Oh no, they wanted whispering.  We all knew junior was sleeping so we modified out tone to our "quiet" voices and that still wasn't quiet enough.  Not to mention that there is a girl in our group who just happens to have a very loud laugh.  She doens't do it on purpose but it's her laugh and she can't help it.

[nolechica]

I'm really not looking for ways to do little half-way things right now because they really won't work for the situation.  I was just asking on what to tell Mary when she asks why we don't want to go to her house.  I certainly like Oh Joy's approach as it still opens the invitation up to them without forcing us to cancel our plans.   

As for other people in the group having children...it's a long story but chances are that only one other couple will actively try to have kids.  More than likely, the rest of us will remain child-free and while the group dynamics will change, they probably won't change in that direction.

Thanks for clarifying, and the child-free angle does change things. I would definitely go with space as an excuse, but be cautious, because what if they move to a large place when Junior's older?

[kudeebee]

I would just be honest with her.  If you say space is an issue, what will you say if they move to a larger space as a pp suggested they might?  Just state it matter of factly, don't accuse them of ruining the evenings, etc.  If you tell a little lie now, believe me it will come back to haunt you later!

Mary--"Why won't you guys come to our house so we can have fun too?"

YOu--"We like hanging out with each other as a group and for a lot of people who are working full time and going to school full time, these little outings are some of the few chances they have to actually go out and have fun with their S/O. We like to be loud and boistrous, laugh, etc and not have to worry about our language and how loud we are getting.  Mary, when we are at your place, the dynamics of the evening changes.  You want us to watch our language, whisper, sit quietly so we don't disturb Junior.  That just doesn't work for our group.  We will still be meeting at different locations and will let you know where and perhaps you can join us from time to time.  Bean dip."

Mary-"But that's not fair!  We want to have fun, too!"

You--"I am sure you do.  We will let you know where we are meeting and perhaps you can join us sometime.  Got to go; talk to you later."

Then hang up the phone, leave, etc.  If she brings it up again, say the same thing over and over and over.  Maybe even clue the others in on what you are going to say, so you all say similar things if Mary asks someone elwe.

[still in va]

Devix, i have a logistical question.  how often does your group of friends get together, and how often do Mark and Mary expect you to come to their house instead of going elsewhere?

also, when you do meet up at their house, do they host or is it BYOB?

i'm just curious, i don't in any way think that your entire group needs to change how you get together just for Mark and Mary. 

[Devix]

Devix, i have a logistical question.  how often does your group of friends get together, and how often do Mark and Mary expect you to come to their house instead of going elsewhere?

also, when you do meet up at their house, do they host or is it BYOB?

i'm just curious, i don't in any way think that your entire group needs to change how you get together just for Mark and Mary.

We get to together one or twice every few weeks which actually evens out to once a week or so.  Always on Friday or Saturday night and usually after 7 or 8 pm.  Mary and Mark would like us to come over as much as possible.  Whenever we mention going to the club or going bowling or even to a movie, Mary will pop up and say we should go over to their house instead. 

It's very casual hosting.  Usually, if we are at someone's house, we will order a pizza or some other takeout and everyone will pay their own way.  The host will provide some chips or snacks and soda as well as a few alcoholic beverages but everyone will usually bring something to drink as well.

[still in va]

Devix, i have a logistical question.  how often does your group of friends get together, and how often do Mark and Mary expect you to come to their house instead of going elsewhere?

also, when you do meet up at their house, do they host or is it BYOB?

i'm just curious, i don't in any way think that your entire group needs to change how you get together just for Mark and Mary.

We get to together one or twice every few weeks which actually evens out to once a week or so.  Always on Friday or Saturday night and usually after 7 or 8 pm.  Mary and Mark would like us to come over as much as possible.  Whenever we mention going to the club or going bowling or even to a movie, Mary will pop up and say we should go over to their house instead. 

It's very casual hosting.  Usually, if we are at someone's house, we will order a pizza or some other takeout and everyone will pay their own way.  The host will provide some chips or snacks and soda as well as a few alcoholic beverages but everyone will usually bring something to drink as well.

okay, another question.  how do Mark and Mary know when your group is planning to get together?  do you use some kind of social networking site?  is that how Mary can pop up and say "oh no, don't go somewhere and have fun, come cram yourselves into my living room like sardines and whisper for a few hours"?   

hey, i'm really sorry that Mary and Mark have to miss out on the activities that they enjoyed before the baby came along.  but it's completely unrealistic to expect your entire group of friends to give up movies, bowling, a night of drinking and dancing, and all activities that they enjoyed previously just because you now have a child and can no longer participate because you don't like leaving your child with a babysitter.  (general you's, of course)