First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10

[squashedfrog]

Hi OP here.

Thanks for responses so far,  If I'm honest I'm kinda glad it wasn't just me that thought it odd.

a bit more info in response to questions. 

Why didn't she just take the bag?   When she whispered for the bag he held onto it, tightly.  I think asking for the bag and being more assertive, to be honest I know my friend and she doesn't puts up with any rubbish.  I think if it had been at a park, or at a restaurant she would have probably said something, asked him what he was doing or made light of it or just left.  As she has pointed out to me they were sat in middle of a cinema in silence for three hours, not the place you push for conversation, sat parallel,  surrounded by other cinema goers. 

She told me she felt weird pushing the subject that then might be seen as an argument with someone you don't know all too well about something that seems as trivial as popcorn (remember this was a first date). When he held onto it when she came out of the bathroom, she said she put it down to him 'being a gentleman' by carrying the big bag. When they sat down, and she asked for the bag, he held onto it tightly, I think she would have had to wrestle it  from him in the middle of a crowded cinema which just sounds like drama for the other cinema goers.   

Because of this she is doubting herself as she doesn't feel she has a proper grasp on what happened because while it was happening the cinema isn't the type of place you could turn around and say "oi! what your game then?" out loud. 

She thinks its now gone past the bringing it up phase with him, as it was late when the film finished, he was all smiles again, she had to get home, and is not sure after a few days of it bugging her how she would then bring up something with him that she thinks might be seen as trivial. Like she said, he'd be immediately fine after it like nothing had happened so again she's unsure of whether he noticed he was doing it.  Hence coming to me and me coming to Ehell.

My thoughts.

In answer to Kaypeeps query, did he perhaps he might have had an issue with getting a large popcorn after saying you had a meal? I still think what him having an issue with what is essentially someone else's food it is a little odd at this point, but then this could be manifested in different ways of course. Saying "Hey hey! I thought you'd had dinner already, look at the size of that?! ", in a jokey way is fine, close to the knuckle, but you could get away with it. 

But as  many of you (including kaypeeps) have agreed, staring at you like you have two heads for daring to have something sweet after a meal, snatching your own food away from you and guilt tripping you is just odd in my opinion.  Especially on a first date.

The thing that put up red flags with me is that she's second guessing herself, because he seems such a nice guy and the behavior he showed seems to suddenly deviate from that, if only for a few seconds.  When she explained it was he seems to suddenly switch from nice guy to a few seconds of uncharacteristic weird guy even if it is difficult to read in the middle of a cinema. I'm also worried that it might be a little chink in the armour revealing something unpleasant.  I think she's taken this opinion on with cheerful skepticism - after all I am one to go off on the deep end! , and I know he was anything like that she would kick him to the kerb immediately before he even got a chance to get his claws in.

At this point she was very much weighing up the situation and has asked me for advice, she is not worried about him, just perturbed at what she felt were weird red flags.   He is back to the funny, cheerful guy on the email, text and calls, and wants to meet up again on Friday to go to 'popular chicken piri piri restaurant" then a few drinks afterwards at a popular pub. She's already told him she has to get up early the next day so it cant be a late one.

So she is going to go out with him one more time in public, and is keeping wary.  I've said she can use me as a get out excuse (mad hormonal friend on the phone and her cat's on fire - gotta go bye!) scenario.   If they are eating, I have said to watch out for any weird behaviour then, and see what happens, but to watch !  will give you an update, as you'd better believe I'll be on the phone to her to get one myself!

[SuperMartianRobotGirl]

Huge red flag. I have a first date story this reminds me of. I met a guy while I was jogging at a linear park. He was jogging too, and we got to chatting. We agreed to meet at a restaurant. When I ordered, he said to me, in front of the waitress, "Don't get that. It'll make you fat."

Uh huh.

I quietly picked up my purse and walked the heck out, in front of the waitress, without saying a word.

And, oddly, he called me later wanting to go out again.

Anyway, my rule is any issues around food = date over, no more dates. You don't want to be with someone who tells you what/how much you're allowed to eat. And I bet this is about movie popcorn being fattening.

[Ms_Cellany]

Depending on the timing, I might have gone out and bought another bag for myself.

[WillyNilly]

It doesn't sound like a control issue to me so much as an eating disorder of some type.

Eating disorders ARE about control. (Not just about control, but control is a major factor.)

Ok yes I know that.  But I mean not a control issue as in controlling her in a emotionally or physically abusive way, but more about his own sense of control over himself.  I think the popcorn issue was about him and his relationship to food going into his body more then about the food that goes into other people's body's.  I think in this case it manifested itself against her food intake simply due to a variety of factors like being around the food unexpectedly, being asked to hold the food, and knowing he was going to be sitting next to someone who planed to [seemingly mindlessly] eat for 2 hours.

I agree with most of this post, but the bolded sounds kind of like you're criticizing the friend too for wanting to eat popcorn at the movies.  Maybe just an internet-no-tone thing.

Internet tone thing.  Thats not at all what I meant (and why I used the word "seemingly").

I don't think think there's anything wrong with eating popcorn, even a large, even after dinner, in general.  Its a whole grain, and its a lot of air.  Sure sometimes the oil its popped in or what its topped with are a problem, but I'm not her nutritionist or Dr and that is not my call to make - she might have a lifestyle that absolutely allows for that.

I think however, from the info given that he might have saw her behavior as mindless eating, due to the factors he had (he was told she ate dinner, he saw her upgrade a size without a word to him, etc) and if he has food intake issues (for himself... or for others) he would react badly to the situation.

[JenJay]

I think she still should have said, loudly enough to be heard, "I'll take that now, thanks!" followed by "Are you refusing to give me my popcorn?" if he didn't hand it over. I'd normally never advocate disturbing other moviegoers but it wouldn't have taken but a moment and the intel would have been worth it.

On the one hand it does sound like he was trying to prevent her from eating the popcorn, but at the same time it's possible he didn't hear her ask for it back. It's possible he was annoyed because he felt like she made him hold it for her. Then again, when he snapped at her to leave it on the floor? No. There's no way to misinterpret that. How did she react? Did she say "Don't be silly! Who would waste half a bag of yummy movie popcorn?!" or did she leave it?

If I were her I'd have a long talk with my instincts and ask them if I should give him one more date or run. If I did go out with him again it would have to include a meal so I could gauge his reactions to my eating habits.

Edited after having read the update - I'm interested in how it goes Friday. Tell her, if it seems to be going well after dinner, she needs to figure out a way to get hold of some popcorn and see if he goes all  again. lol

[MorgnsGrl]

Ok yes I know that.  But I mean not a control issue as in controlling her in a emotionally or physically abusive way, but more about his own sense of control over himself.  I think the popcorn issue was about him and his relationship to food going into his body more then about the food that goes into other people's body's.  I think in this case it manifested itself against her food intake simply due to a variety of factors like being around the food unexpectedly, being asked to hold the food, and knowing he was going to be sitting next to someone who planed to [seemingly mindlessly] eat for 2 hours.

I think I might just be having a hard time buying this theory because as someone with a lot of disordered-eating thoughts and behaviors, it NEVER occurs to me to think about someone else's eating. I'm way too busy (overly, ridiculously busy) policing my own food, and/or silently fretting about what other people MIGHT be thinking about what I am eating.

[Yvaine]

I think however, from the info given that he might have saw her behavior as mindless eating, due to the factors he had (he was told she ate dinner, he saw her upgrade a size without a word to him, etc) and if he has food intake issues (for himself... or for others) he would react badly to the situation.

Ah, gotcha. We're in agreement then--he was projecting his own issues onto her.

[hobish]

I'm not gonig to psychoanalyze the guy - we really don't know what is up with the friend of a friend of an internet pal, really - but that does sound mighty odd. I think your friend is smart in how she is continuing her interactions with the dude - meeting in public, seeing how he acts in an eating situation, etc. Best of luck to her; i am very interested in hearing an update.

[weeblewobble]

Just imagine his reaction if she'd had the "audacity" to eat a full meal in front of him. 

This was all about control.  How dare his date want to EAT in front of him, and then, she had the gall to ask for access to something she purchased for herself, when he'd clearly taken steps to keep it from her.  Really, shame on her. 

Also, I read the "shoveling the popcorn into his mouth" bit as him trying to get rid of as much popcorn as he could so she could eat less of it. But that's just me.   

I don't care what his damage is, this guy doesn't deserve a second chance. It would be like saying, "Hey, you didn't do enough to try to control and make me feel bad for doing something totally normal.  Please, take another whack at it!"  It's not her job to fix him, just to keep him from trying to control her further.

Seriously, do not tell me how much/what/when I should eat.  If you aren't my doctor, it's none of your business.  When I was interning with a bunch of other students, we went out to dinner as group to get to know each other. We were at this great Mexican place and I saw carne asada on the menu.  I LOVE carne asada so I said I was going to order that.   Another guy at the table, Will, said, yeah, that sounds good, I'll have that, too. 

But the guy sitting across from me, Chris, said, "No, you don't want that, Weeble, you want the grilled chicken tacos."

Please note the grilled chicken tacos were on the "light side" menu, and were not served with guacamole, sour cream, cheese, refried beans or anything.  It was just grilled chicken, soft taco shells, lettuce, tomatoes and onions.

Being young and naive and unaware of how (insert naughty adjective here) this behavior was, I just smiled blithely and said, "No, that doesn't sound good.  I'm going to stick with carne asada."  And he just kept saying, "No, you're going to have the grilled chicken tacos." in this assertive, instructive tone of voice, as if I had no choice in the matter and grilled chicken tacos were a foregone conclusion.   He even said it to the waiter when we ordered.  I shook my head and re-stated my order. 

I didn't know this guy.  I'd literally met him a few hours earlier. It only occured to me to really irritated about it much later. Also note that Chris didn't say a dang word to Will about his ordering the same dish. 

Chris (who was eating an enormous portion of something covered in refried beans) sat there and made disdainful cringing faces as I ate my delicious carne asada, and kept making comments about how he couldn't believe I was eating THAT MUCH.  I ignored him. I just thought he was being a jerk and didn't pay much attention.

But in the months that followed, I noticed that he did this to every girl in the group at some point, if they sat close enough during a meal.  Most just ignored him and ate what they wanted.  A few girls said, "Oh, OK, I guess I'll have (Chris' suggestion)."  And wouldn't you know, those were the girls he asked out.  Because those were the girls he could control.  One of them had the misfortune of agreeing to be his girlfriend and he engaged in full-time food policing for her, ordering for her in restaurants, telling her what she could and couldn't have from her bagged lunch at the office, taking candy or snacks out of her work desk because she "didn't need them."

Guys like this are bad news.  They start with small controlling gestures to see how much you will let them get away with.  And it's always disguised under a thick layer of "I'm just concerned for you, want the best for you, baby."  It's wrong and not at all what you want in a relationship.

[weeblewobble]

And I've discussed the term, "gaslighting" here before.  But the "fake smiles" after doing something weird and controlling (usually after the victim has relented) and the return to being the funny email guy after a rather confusing, upsetting encounter is classic gaslighting.  It's intended to put the victim off-balance, to make her doubt her judgment and whether what she thinks happened was really what happened.  And if it did, was it all that bad?

It's a survival mechanism for abusive people.  Seriously, if they were sign-carrying jerks all of the time, they'd be much easier to spot and couldn't access victims.

Note to self: Talk to my local legislator about requiring abusive jerks to carry signs...

[Piratelvr1121]

Oh HUGE red flag.  As in Curiosity could probably see it from Mars, that's how big it is.  I'd be running the other way, rather than dealing with this guy any more.   

No one keeps me from my vigorously buttered popcorn!!

I completely POD Weeble.  I knew a guy like this and I know it sounds bad, but I breathed a sigh of relief when I found out that she finally decided to divorce him. He didn't so much control what she ate but he was controlling and manipulative in other ways.  I think it was because he was nice in some ways that she did end up marrying him.

This guy did once criticize middle son for being pudgy...when he was around 3 or 4. Yeah, and this guy had a beer gut so he didn't exactly have the room to talk.  His wife is on the small side, as in 5', and curvy and one day in college he was eating Super Chunk peanut butter and asked her if she was his super chunk and then wondered why she was so hurt. 

[weeblewobble]

Piratelvr, I swear I just heard Capt. Jack announce, "It shall be buttered, VIGOROUSLY!" 

[Hillia]

Agree with all the previous posters about the control issue.  Since you say your friend doesn't usually have trouble standing up for herself, I would be tempted to have one more meal date - lunch, dinner - somewhere casual where she wouldn't feel any hesitation at all about saying something loudly ('Hey, put the chips back where I can reach them, please!) or leaving at the first sign of controlling behavior, just to flesh it out.  More out of curiousity, really, than anything else, because I agree this guy is giving off some huge 'run away!' vibes.

[Amava]

That gives me the creeps and my first gut feeling screamed: "I would not have any contact with him again."

However, I have not met the guy and I was not there; so if I thought there was a chance I had misinterpreted his popcorn behaviour and really liked him otherwise, I would give him another chance for a date. But the date would certainly involve food, and would take place in an environment where there is more light and where communication can be clearer. If he acted normal while I ordered and ate two hamburgers, I would be reassured that I had been imagining things. But if he started acting weird again, or criticized my eating, that would be the nail in the coffin.

[Kaypeep]

Thanks for the update.  I still think your friend should have been more assertive (especially with the cost of popcorn!) but that's neither here nor there.  As long as she's not having a full fledged conversation, as a fellow movie goer I would not have a problem with someone near me saying "please give me the popcorn bag."  But anyway... 

I think maybe this isn't a food issue but a "jerk" issue where he's teasing her.  She asks for it and he holds onto it tightly so she can't get it?  I could see a jerk doing this with anything.  A magazine, the tv remote, the salt and pepper, etc.  Since it was a theater and she dropped the issue, she couldn't see how far it would go.  Perhaps she should go on one more date and see if he tries this stunt again.  He might just be immature.  Only she can be the judge and one more date wouldn't be too risky, I think, if she truly thinks he has some other good qualities. But she should be prepared to walk away immediately if he does it again or makes her feel bad.