First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10

[Yvaine]

  Now this  friend is real sweet, not a drama queen at all, but  she is just a  magnet for jerks,  it seems.

I think a lot of the 'magnets for jerks'  are the type of people who see the good in everyone, give everyone the benefit of the doubt type people.  I don't think those types like the drama of being in a bad relationship as a pp suggested..

There are a few people who like the drama--I know a guy who is like that; he thinks a relationship is dull if there aren't crockery-throwing fights every couple days. But I think that women's love for "bad boys" is kind of overstated in general. Just as Nice Guys (tm) aren't always nice, the guys that Nice Guys describe as jerks, as in "women only go for jerks," are often decent men who are being unfairly vilified for being assertive, conventionally attractive, or anything else that makes the self-proclaimed Nice Guy insecure.

[girlysprite]

  Now this  friend is real sweet, not a drama queen at all, but  she is just a  magnet for jerks,  it seems.

I think a lot of the 'magnets for jerks'  are the type of people who see the good in everyone, give everyone the benefit of the doubt type people.  I don't think those types like the drama of being in a bad relationship as a pp suggested..

I agree, more often than not it seems like the ones that attract jerks are either the ones that either have a hard time saying "Sorry not interested" or they're the sort that think they can fix the guy.  Least from what I know of with my friends.

Reminds me of a saying: 'Men fix their house & car, women fix their men'.

When it comes to such girls, they need to realize that the only thing other people might learn from them are 'tricks'. When they are slobby in the household tasks, they could be taught to move the trashbags outside and flush the toilet - that kind of stuff. But you can't fix deeper traits. A non-social person will never become the center of parties. A chaotic person will never become truly organized.

Back to the original jerk of the thread, the opening post reminded me of gas lighting. He is displaying nasty behavior and giving bad comments, but will act like sunshine and rainbows when the woman faces him. I feel like he doesn't just want to control her behavior, he wants to make her uncertain about herself. And that gives me creepy vibes all over.

[Winterlight]

I've been out with this guy a few times over the past few months. For me he's usually a great match on paper (degree, career, owns a house, has a hobby) but seems to have a giant girlfriend sized hole in my life. When I ask about his travel interests, he talks about places he would go with a girlfriend. When I ask about what he likes to cook, he describes the dish he would make if he had a girlfriend over (interestingly enough always is sauteed veggies in a white wine sauce over whole wheat pasta.) They talk about how great their family is, and on the second date want to make plans to introduce me to his parents and can't wait to come home with me for Christmas.

I've met him too. That's such a turn-off to me. I don't want to be the reason you have a life, I want to be part of your life. An important part, but not the only thing keeping you going.

[Carotte]

I've been reading a book ( A pair of blue eyes - Thomas Hardy ) where the girl 'ditched' the previous nice-guy she promised to marry for the kind-of-not-nice-arogant one ( older, from a nicer background, successful and all that) because she was in awe, like she felt she wasn't worth him and since he deigned* to give her some attention she fell head over heels.
I guess that happens often too (and for guys too). I mean, there's admiring the person you are with (which is perfectly normal) and there's crazy-fan-girl "I'm not worth it, use me as slippers so as to not get mudd on your feets".

*At first, then he really feel in love.

I keep wanting to poke the one I've got now to make sure he's actually real, because he's nice without being a doormat.

Ahahaha, that's exactly how I feel!
Surely my boyfriend can't be actually real. I mean, he has his flaws ( that I still find somewhat cute after 4 months together ) but he also has so many qualities.
He's extremely mature ( yes, even when we go around putting our fingers in eachother's ears) so anything that could have come up as an issue is dealt with by talking.
We've joked before that it wasn't normal, maybe we should try arguing or something, but never came up with a sore subject.

[Corvid]

Men who say that are not nice guys.  They are closet jerks, emotionally manipulative, have no self esteem and have a very narrow definition of how a woman "should" behave.  Women won't put up with their nonsense so therefore all women are female dogs who only date jerks.

I don't remember where I read it now, but someone somewhere pointed out that a "nice guy" isn't necessarily a good man.  Some males will claim to be a nice guy simply because they aren't overtly offensive.  However, jerkiness is jerkiness whether it's in your face or not.  A good man treats people well because that's how you treat people.  A good man acts like he's someone's friend because he is that person's friend.

[Venus193]

A "nice" guy could be providing a good facade or may be ineffectual.  Neither of these traits are desirable.

[Piratelvr1121]

What drew me to DH was that he was sweet and did not brag about how nice he was.  Still doesn't, and when he is complimented on it he shrugs, smiles and says "I try". 

The guys I've known who do say they're a Nice Guy make me think of folks who boast about how good they are in bed.   

[blarg314]

My observation is that being attracted to jerks is gender and/or orientation independent, but can vary in how it shows itself between men and women. I've also observed that there are several different reasons for doing so.

- People who grew up in dysfunctional families, and honestly think that being treated like dirt is normal or inevitable.

- People who are hooked on the drama and enjoy the passion, excitement and adrenaline rush. If they get into a calm, respectful relationship with someone nice and even tempered, they get bored.

- People with really bad self-esteem or self image who think that this is genuinely what they deserve, or the best they can expect.

- Status seekers. They want a partner that the world sees as desirable and high status - the wealthy, powerful man, the hot woman, someone famous - and get stuck with the downsides that can come with someone who regards being powerful and wealthy (or really hot, or famous) as the most important part of their life.

- Fix-it-uppers. Either they figure they can take someone and reform them into the perfect SO, or they feel sorry for them, and want to help.  I've seen guys do this too - start dating a woman who was really needy and a complete mess, and then couldn't break up with her because she needed him so much.

[girlysprite]

The problem I have seen with self-proclaimed nice guys is that they figure that they are 'nice', and he and his crush have similar interests, so they can't understand why their crush doesn't want a relationship. It's like they have a checklist in their head, and if they feel that they meet all the criteria, a relationship must occur!
I know a lot of guys who are ok as people, and share similar interests, but there are only a few that I would have considered as relationship material if I didn't have DH already.

[TurtleDove]

I think men who say they are passed over because they are "too nice" are actively ignoring their actual character flaws, or are consistently seeking out people with whom they are not compatible.  It is a convenient way to make their romantic failures someone else's fault, all the time.

[mbbored]

The problem I have seen with self-proclaimed nice guys is that they figure that they are 'nice', and he and his crush have similar interests, so they can't understand why their crush doesn't want a relationship. It's like they have a checklist in their head, and if they feel that they meet all the criteria, a relationship must occur!
I know a lot of guys who are ok as people, and share similar interests, but there are only a few that I would have considered as relationship material if I didn't have DH already.

I agree with this. It's like you met every item on their checklist so you must be in a relationship with them. If you don't want that, it can't be their fault, and since you are clearly the perfect woman, it's not your fault ever. Therefore, it must be the fault of those bad boys! They're keeping the two of you apart! If only it weren't for those bad boys, you would be safe in the arms of the perfect nice guy.

[Auntie Mame]

The problem I have seen with self-proclaimed nice guys is that they figure that they are 'nice', and he and his crush have similar interests, so they can't understand why their crush doesn't want a relationship. It's like they have a checklist in their head, and if they feel that they meet all the criteria, a relationship must occur!
I know a lot of guys who are ok as people, and share similar interests, but there are only a few that I would have considered as relationship material if I didn't have DH already.

I agree with this. It's like you met every item on their checklist so you must be in a relationship with them. If you don't want that, it can't be their fault, and since you are clearly the perfect woman, it's not your fault ever. Therefore, it must be the fault of those bad boys! They're keeping the two of you apart! If only it weren't for those bad boys, you would be safe in the arms of the perfect nice guy.

Or the mentality of "Hey, I'm a nice guy, she doesn't have the right to reject me!  Oh, she must be a female dog who only dates jerks, that's why she rejected a nice guy like me".  Ugh.  Not a day goes by that I am not grateful I met my BF.

[Ceallach]

What drew me to DH was that he was sweet and did not brag about how nice he was.  Still doesn't, and when he is complimented on it he shrugs, smiles and says "I try". 

The guys I've known who do say they're a Nice Guy make me think of folks who boast about how good they are in bed.

I agree.   Genuinely nice/good guys are too busy being nice/good to be bragging about how "nice" they are or whinging about girls they date.   Not that those other guys aren't necessarily "nice" too, but they've also got an element of self-absorption about them if they insist on going on about it.  It's not an attractive quality.

[Piratelvr1121]

What drew me to DH was that he was sweet and did not brag about how nice he was.  Still doesn't, and when he is complimented on it he shrugs, smiles and says "I try". 

The guys I've known who do say they're a Nice Guy make me think of folks who boast about how good they are in bed.

I agree.   Genuinely nice/good guys are too busy being nice/good to be bragging about how "nice" they are or whinging about girls they date.   Not that those other guys aren't necessarily "nice" too, but they've also got an element of self-absorption about them if they insist on going on about it.  It's not an attractive quality.

And that's just it too, at least in thinking of the one guy I know who always went on and on about what a nice guy he was.  He is incredibly self absorbed.  He always went on about what a great boyfriend he'd be and then once he got a girlfriend, talked about what a great boyfriend he was. *meanwhile the gf was telling me she was feeling suffocated* Then they got married and when we were around, he'd always say "You're happy, right?" to her.  The way he said it was like "You ARE happy, so just agree!"

[Danika]

I still can't remember where I read the quote because it's been over 20 years, but I remember once reading something like "Oh, the plight of sensitive man - suffering so much for himself that he can feel nothing for others."