Author Topic: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....  (Read 14853 times)

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RavenousEdenFleur

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When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« on: September 18, 2012, 12:03:07 AM »
Hi everyone, asking this for a friend, I think she handled it the best way she could,by just being very cordial but I am wondering if it would be helpful for her to say something... she feels so awkward now.

My friend Emma is roommates and kind of seeing John. Emma has worked before with Carol and they all work in the same industry.

So Emma and John get along great, and Carol expresses her need for help in an area that John is great at. She refers John to Carol and they talk business, all is well.

However Carol ends up coming by the house that John and Emma rent together to go over the project.Emma is out running errands and she sends a text to John inquiring about how the meeting went and how she was running late and if she should grab something from the store, since she was nearby for dinner!

John texts back saying Carol and him are going to dinner and asking if she wanted to get picked up, since she was walking, and come with.. Emma says yes but then she gets vibes that thee may be another reason Carol is wanting to have dinner with John.. she is flirting and laughing with Joahn, and then  John mentions when Carol is in the bathroom that Carol is treating him to dinner, when she comes back John apologises and said she can pay for Emma. Emma mentions that she has a card and cash and can pay her own way. John and Carol spend the whole dinner talking and getting to know each other... and Emma is sitting there feeling like the third wheel, when the check comes Emma goes to give money and John jokes "oh that is all you have" and Carol says "John I will treat you properly later" while Emma is sitting there dumfounded, excuses herself and goes home.

My friend is pretty embarrassed,she feels like she clearly was the third wheel and feels like she's stumbled upon someone who John  is more interested in.. and it was right there in front of her.

Minmom3

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2012, 12:24:19 AM »
Ouch.  That sounds incredibly painful...  Hopefully she can clear up her status with John and move forward happily.   :-[
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NyaChan

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 12:26:47 AM »
Wait - so they have a house together, are seeing each other, and he basically went on a date with someone else with her there? 

sweetonsno

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 12:33:44 AM »
Yikes. This is a complicated question. In terms of the etiquette aspect of the situation, I think John was the only one who really messed up. He should not have invited Emma to come to dinner without consulting Carol first.

I can see why the situation would feel really awkward to Emma (poor gal), but she still should have done her best to join in on the conversation. Chances are that her friends weren't deliberately excluding her and that it was her hurt and confusion that got in the way of her joining in.

From a matter of manners, Emma does not need to say anything. She did nothing wrong. She doesn't need to apologize to Carol or John. John is the one who messed up.

That being said, from a relationship point of view, she needs to have a talk with John. I think that what she sees as a relationship (even one of the "sort of" variety) is probably something entirely different for John. John probably thinks of her as a roommate, albeit one who he occasionally flirts with (or something along those lines). If he's openly flirting with someone else in front of her, he likely a.) does not see her as a potential partner and b.) doesn't realize that she's actually got feelings for him. It's unfortunate, but this really should get out in the open or living together could become quite awkward.

Twik

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2012, 12:34:24 AM »
Wait - so they have a house together, are seeing each other, and he basically went on a date with someone else with her there?

Yes, what is this "kind of seeing"?
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JoieGirl7

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 12:44:19 AM »
If John wanted to be alone with Carol, he wouldn't have texted Emma to see if she could come with.

RavenousEdenFleur

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 01:18:49 AM »
It seems complicated to me too!

From my understanding Emma and John are very good friends, she has met his family and there is affection and the occasional scrabble, but they don't have a label yet because they feel they're in two very different places in their lives right now.

They don't own the house together, there are 4 roommates in the house and they all pay equal rent.

Raintree

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 01:48:17 AM »
Yikes, the "friends with benefits" scenario.

It does sound as though John didn't know his dinner with Carol was a date; otherwise he wouldn't have invited Emma. But Carol clearly had a thing for John (as evidenced by the flirting and "I'll treat you properly later" comment; she clearly wanted a subsequent one-on-one dinner). And then John was likely flattered by Carol's attention and didn't feel there was anything wrong as he wasn't technically dating Emma anyway. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that Carol asked John earlier, "So, are you and Emma an item?" and when he said no, she figured he was fair game. Or perhaps she figured he was fair game regardless (some women are like that).

This is the kind of awkwardness and hurt that can result from a "friends with benefits" relationship, as the guy usually is perfectly willing to enjoy scrabble and have someone to hang out with, but also the freedom to keep looking. (I'm saying this in general terms as I'd say it's usually the guy who can separate scrabble from emotions).

Or perhaps John is just so clueless that he didn't realize Carol was hitting on him and he was thinking, "But of COURSE I'd invite Emma, as we're kind of seeing each other."

Either way, it's time to work out where this relationship actually stands, because dating another woman in front of Emma (whether or not he calls it a date) is clearly not going to work out.

BC12

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 03:04:33 AM »
I can see how Emma would feel embarrassed, but she didn't do anything wrong by going to a dinner she was invited to. How awkward that must have been, though. Ugh.

I think she should say something to John. Just a casual, "Hey, so is it just me, or was the other night kind of weird with me being there? It felt like I was intruding on you and Carol. Why did you invite me?" His answer to that will clear things up a lot.

I agree with others who guessed that John didn't realize Carol wanted it to be a "date." And if he did understand that's what Carol wanted, he invited Emma to come so that hopefully Carol would get the hint that it was not a "date" without actively rejecting Carol, which is hard for some people to do. Either way, I doubt John has a romantic interest in Carol.

Are Emma and Carol friends, at all?

Iris

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 03:15:44 AM »


Either way, it's time to work out where this relationship actually stands, because dating another woman in front of Emma (whether or not he calls it a date) is clearly not going to work out.

This. That sounds like a horribly awkward situation for Emma, and not her fault at all. She certainly owes no-one an apology, but if I were her I'd take steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.
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lady_disdain

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2012, 09:18:19 AM »
John was definitely at fault. He shouldn't have invited Emma along and he should not have mentioned that Carol was paying for him. Trying to transfer the "treat" to Emma was even worse - this isn't a gift certificate.

Both Carol and John were rude for flirting around and ignoring Emma. Carol might not have wanted her there but she has a social obligation to behave properly and include Emma in the conversation. Dial down on the flirting until another time.

Emma did nothing wrong and was placed in a very bad situation. Since this was dinner, there wasn't even a graceful way to leave early (before the meal was finished).

My advice to Emma would be to either clear up her relationship with John (define  some ground rules, including no flirting in front of her, even if she doesn't want an official relationship) or to drop him straight out. I would go with drop him, myself, if this incident is any proof of his behaviour (inviting a third party, transferring Carol's offer to treat him, ignoring a third party, flirting in front of her, etc).

Queen of Clubs

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2012, 10:02:51 AM »
I agree with Lady Disdain.  I wouldn't be impressed at John's behaviour either.  Even if he doesn't consider himself to be in a relationship with Emma, that whole dinner thing was just weird.

Emma needs to know where she stands with John so she can decide whether or not to continue with whatever their relationship is.

I don't think she should address the dinner situation itself until she knows what kind of relationship John thinks they're in.  I do think she did the best she could at the time though.  How awkward and embarrassing for her!

PennyandPleased

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2012, 10:55:52 AM »
It seems complicated to me too!

From my understanding Emma and John are very good friends, she has met his family and there is affection and the occasional scrabble, but they don't have a label yet because they feel they're in two very different places in their lives right now.
They don't own the house together, there are 4 roommates in the house and they all pay equal rent.

Emma needs to realize that he's just not that into her. If he WAS really into her he would be dating her and her alone. She does not need to feel awkward - she didn't do anything wrong. But she needs to keep this relationship as JUST a friendship and move on and find a new man who will commit to her and her alone.

"two different places in life" is just an excuse to get the best of both worlds - single and scrabble.

bah12

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2012, 10:58:11 AM »
So, Emma and John have a "complicated" relationship and John further complicated it by inviting her out to dinner on what turned out to be a sort-of first date.

He messed up big time. Carol invited him to dinner.  He needed to check with her before inviting Emma. If he invited Emma to communicate that it wasn't a "date", he's still wrong.  It seems that John needs to learn a little more about being direct with the women he's "seeing".

I think that Emma did well given the circumstances. I wouldn't discourage her from talking to John about it if she's comfortable, but really, I hope that Emma doesn't emotionally invest too much in John.  She's in for a lot of heartache, especially considering that he's a roommate.

Zilla

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Re: When you realize you are not invited but you are there....
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2012, 11:06:26 AM »
My heart goes out to Emma.  What an uncomfortable and sad thing to sit through.


Honestly John sounds like an bacon-fed knave.  No matter what their relationship is, he knows there is a mere something and should have curbed the flirting in front of Emma and saved it for a more private time.  He may have not known at the dinner invitation what it was going to be like but he should have realized during.


Emma should have a conversation with John to the effect of that their something is over and he is free to pursue her friend or whatever she wants but she needs to clarify.