Family moving out of country and visiting

[Seraphine1]

I think vague is best. 

I moved from Canada to the UK over 13 years ago.  While some of my family and friends have visited, I know others have not been in the position to, either for personal or financial reasons.  My own brother will not fly, so he and his family have never been here.  My parents are now elderly and in poor health, and they can no longer visit.

While I try to return as often as I can (about once a year), I know my feelings would certainly be hurt if anyone close to me said outright that they would never visit, especially for reasons like not wanting to fly or not wanting children to fly (but it's okay for me and my children to fly?)  I know my brother won't fly - I would never ask him to.  I know he won't come to visit, but he doesn't wave it in my face.  It's always been unspoken, and that's enough.  Like I said, vague is best.

There are ways to get to Europe without flying (I know several people who've sailed on transatlantic cruises - these are often very reasonable in price), and while I realise people in North America generally have less vacation time than Europeans, there are always ways of accomplishing something if you want it badly enough.  Time, money, motivation... these are all obstacles, but you yourself said that "you would love to see the country they are moving to".  If you won the lottery tomorrow, would your issues with flying be enough to keep you away?   

Your post sounded so rigid and I think that's what bothered me so - like there was absolutely no way you would ever consider this, and you feel your brother and SIL should know this before they leave.   Your insistence that you won't fly with kids til they are older, and pleas of travel sickness and lack of money - these reasons sound like excuses (the money issue is one thing, but there are medications for travel sickness and people fly with babies and children all the time).   Just say "it would be lovely to visit, we'll have to see what happens", and smile when you say it. 

The Skype account and social media like Facebook help a lot when you are away from family - they make them seem a lot less far away.  I hope you can maintain your relationships while your brother's family is away.

[TootsNYC]

I appreciate all of the responses, especially from those that lived overseas.

His company will be paying for him to come back here twice a year, so I will see him then.

As for rigidity, I can say with absolute certainty I won't be able to make it out there, but if you think it it will spare their feelings, I will be more vague.  I would love to see the country they're going to, as well as other places, but even if I could afford to go, there's still the fact that I get violently ill if I have to fly over 2 1/12 hours or so.  Plus the fact that we'll have kids then, and I'm definitely not going to fly with them until they're a bit older. But I'll keep all of those reasons and keep it vague so they know that it's not that I don't want to see them...

I have mentioned sine bro made his announcement that we'll keep in touch over Skype.  We just purchased a new web cam for this purpose.

I think that dwelling on how much you would LIKE to visit, and making concrete plans for staying in touch, will soften that blow.

And you know what? I really do suggest you challenge that assumption. I'd fly w/ a 3mo; I've flown w/ a 2yo. Seeing my brother in person, showing him that I care very much about his life (i.e., his life the way HE has arranged it), was absolutely worth it.

Motion sickness--you're saying that 5 hours of motion sickness (or the extra time to plan your flight in 2.5-hour hops, since it's Europe) wouldn't be worth 1 week in his company, 1 week of seeing his life, 1 week of seeing something special that he has a special opportunity to show you. That's sort of a tough thing to hear, so I wouldn't suggest you dwell on it. 

[wolfie]

I appreciate all of the responses, especially from those that lived overseas.

His company will be paying for him to come back here twice a year, so I will see him then.

As for rigidity, I can say with absolute certainty I won't be able to make it out there, but if you think it it will spare their feelings, I will be more vague.  I would love to see the country they're going to, as well as other places, but even if I could afford to go, there's still the fact that I get violently ill if I have to fly over 2 1/12 hours or so.  Plus the fact that we'll have kids then, and I'm definitely not going to fly with them until they're a bit older. But I'll keep all of those reasons and keep it vague so they know that it's not that I don't want to see them...

I have mentioned sine bro made his announcement that we'll keep in touch over Skype.  We just purchased a new web cam for this purpose.

I think that dwelling on how much you would LIKE to visit, and making concrete plans for staying in touch, will soften that blow.

And you know what? I really do suggest you challenge that assumption. I'd fly w/ a 3mo; I've flown w/ a 2yo. Seeing my brother in person, showing him that I care very much about his life (i.e., his life the way HE has arranged it), was absolutely worth it.

Motion sickness--you're saying that 5 hours of motion sickness (or the extra time to plan your flight in 2.5-hour hops, since it's Europe) wouldn't be worth 1 week in his company, 1 week of seeing his life, 1 week of seeing something special that he has a special opportunity to show you. That's sort of a tough thing to hear, so I wouldn't suggest you dwell on it.

I have a flight to Europe in a few weeks and it will be 8 hours on the plane for me - plus a one hour hope from my airport to an airport that goes international. 8 - 9 hours is a lot of time to spend motion sick. Plus it might be more then a vaguely upset stomach - she could be vomiting for that entire 8 hours - which could make the first few days after landing unpleasant as she would either need to spend them in bed recovering, or try to socialize when she is feeling so poorly. I don't think poo-pooing someone else's medical conditions because it wouldn't upset you is appropriate. The poster says she gets motion sickness that is bad enough that she would not fly on a plane for that long. I don't see a reason to try to convince her that she is wrong about that.

[bopper]

As someone who lived overseas, this is what you can do when they come back to visit to make their life easier (if it makes sense for your situation)
:
1) Don't necessarily make them come to you to visit.  When we came back we were expected to do all the travelling to visit people. If you can go to where they are it would save them extra travelling.

2) Offer your home as home base for them.  We stayed with friends, but I didn't think we could invite people to the house. So we always had to go travel. If it is possible, let them stay with you and let them host people at your house so they don't have to do the driving.

3) Appreciate how much effort it is for them to come back and visit; don't take it for granted. One Xmas we left for the USA after Dec 25th, and it was Snowpocolypse 2.0 on the US East Coast.  We had to wait a day for a new flight at the airport hotel, then fly out only to find that our quick layover in Zurich was going to be overnight due to a broken de-icer, and then we flew to WashingtonDC where we new we would be south of the snow...then we took a train to the Newark airport where we rented a car.   We had arranged to visit with the ILs on Wednesday and dutifully showed up after the 3 day traveling marathon.  We got there and they were like "Oh...would you like some lunch?"  And I was thinking "Darn tootin'!  We just travelled 3000+ miles and 3 days to get there and yes, we would like some lunch!"  They thought that we would move our whole visiting schedule back because we arrived later, but we had never told them we were changing anything!  That was the time I said to myself if we weren't moving back the next year, I would just stay overseas.

[Sharnita]

I think the attitude that "they chose to move" is also troubling, at least to me.  Yes, it was a choice, at least in a way but it sounds like it was tied to a career.  It isn't some extended vacation.  People do what they have to do to make a living and support their families to the best of their ability.  The amount of "choice" they have in that can be somewhat limited. 

[MrsJWine]

I don't think the OP owes a visit any more than her brother owes her one. I do think that if you are the one to move away from the family's central area, the burden should not be on everyone else to come visit you. That does not mean that I think the person who moves away should *have* to visit the rest of the family every single time. But practically speaking, it makes no sense to pressure everyone else to come to you.

I've been on both ends of this. I have a sister who lives in Europe with her family. I have never visited her. It's just insanely expensive to travel overseas. We can't do it. Well, we *could*, if we sold a lot of things and ate ramen for a month, but I don't consider those reasonable measures to expect of someone.

My husband's job moved us halfway across the country almost two years ago, and I do not expect the rest of the family to come visit us here. My parents and brothers (with their families) still live back home. They don't roll in money, either. If I want to see them, I will go out there myself. Would a visit from any of them be wonderful? Of course! But it's not the duty of three separate branches of the family to come visit me when I could see all three families on ONE visit.

[Cat-Fu]

I appreciate all of the responses, especially from those that lived overseas.

His company will be paying for him to come back here twice a year, so I will see him then.

As for rigidity, I can say with absolute certainty I won't be able to make it out there, but if you think it it will spare their feelings, I will be more vague.  I would love to see the country they're going to, as well as other places, but even if I could afford to go, there's still the fact that I get violently ill if I have to fly over 2 1/12 hours or so.  Plus the fact that we'll have kids then, and I'm definitely not going to fly with them until they're a bit older. But I'll keep all of those reasons and keep it vague so they know that it's not that I don't want to see them...

I have mentioned sine bro made his announcement that we'll keep in touch over Skype.  We just purchased a new web cam for this purpose.

I think that dwelling on how much you would LIKE to visit, and making concrete plans for staying in touch, will soften that blow.

And you know what? I really do suggest you challenge that assumption. I'd fly w/ a 3mo; I've flown w/ a 2yo. Seeing my brother in person, showing him that I care very much about his life (i.e., his life the way HE has arranged it), was absolutely worth it.

Motion sickness--you're saying that 5 hours of motion sickness (or the extra time to plan your flight in 2.5-hour hops, since it's Europe) wouldn't be worth 1 week in his company, 1 week of seeing his life, 1 week of seeing something special that he has a special opportunity to show you. That's sort of a tough thing to hear, so I wouldn't suggest you dwell on it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, OP, but I'm assuming by the word "overseas" that the OP lives in the US, so a 2.5 hour flight isn't a possibility. IIRC, you could shell out thousands of dollars for a 3.5 hour Concorde flight, but guessing by the OP saying that she can't afford the regular flights that it's not an option, either. {ETA: Especially because they were retired in 2003 } I really don't think it's helpful to guilt the OP. (Sorry if I am misinterpreting, but that's how it reads to me.)
 
That said, my brother moved out to Detroit about 10 years ago, and he usually does most of the flying back. I miss him like crazy (he's a great guy), but I've only been able to afford to fly out to see him twice. He is often wistful that we can't visit, but we keep up frequently via Skype and facebook. Sometimes visiting either way just isn't an option, so you do what you can. Technology has made these vast separations loads easier on the heart.

[Tiamet]

Correct me if I'm wrong, OP, but I'm assuming by the word "overseas" that the OP lives in the US, so a 2.5 hour flight isn't a possibility. IIRC, you could shell out thousands of dollars for a 3.5 hour Concorde flight, but guessing by the OP saying that she can't afford the regular flights that it's not an option, either. I really don't think it's helpful to guilt the OP. (Sorry if I am misinterpreting, but that's how it reads to me.)
 

I'm pretty sure Concorde hasn't been in service for a while now either - weren't they all deemed too old after the Paris aircrash?

[Cat-Fu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, OP, but I'm assuming by the word "overseas" that the OP lives in the US, so a 2.5 hour flight isn't a possibility. IIRC, you could shell out thousands of dollars for a 3.5 hour Concorde flight, but guessing by the OP saying that she can't afford the regular flights that it's not an option, either. I really don't think it's helpful to guilt the OP. (Sorry if I am misinterpreting, but that's how it reads to me.)
 

I'm pretty sure Concorde hasn't been in service for a while now either - weren't they all deemed too old after the Paris aircrash?

Ha, you are correct. Oops! Now you all know how long ago it was that I last looked into overseas travel!  Looks like the OP is out of luck on that score.

[Seraphine1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, OP, but I'm assuming by the word "overseas" that the OP lives in the US, so a 2.5 hour flight isn't a possibility. IIRC, you could shell out thousands of dollars for a 3.5 hour Concorde flight, but guessing by the OP saying that she can't afford the regular flights that it's not an option, either. I really don't think it's helpful to guilt the OP. (Sorry if I am misinterpreting, but that's how it reads to me.)

The Concorde's last flight was in 2003, so it's not an option either.

It's not entirely about dismissing the OP's medical problems with flying - I understand it could be very uncomfortable if not downright miserable.   I'm addressing her insistence on telling her brother that this trip will not happen in any circumstance.   I absolutely think she should be more vague instead of being so blunt with her brother - it doesn't hurt her in any way, and it will avoid a tremendous deal of hurt for her brother and his family. 

[Ceallach]

I appreciate all of the responses, especially from those that lived overseas.

His company will be paying for him to come back here twice a year, so I will see him then.

As for rigidity, I can say with absolute certainty I won't be able to make it out there, but if you think it it will spare their feelings, I will be more vague.  I would love to see the country they're going to, as well as other places, but even if I could afford to go, there's still the fact that I get violently ill if I have to fly over 2 1/12 hours or so.  Plus the fact that we'll have kids then, and I'm definitely not going to fly with them until they're a bit older. But I'll keep all of those reasons and keep it vague so they know that it's not that I don't want to see them...

I have mentioned sine bro made his announcement that we'll keep in touch over Skype.  We just purchased a new web cam for this purpose.

Seeing you genuinely would love to visit (but know that you're not going to) then it's not setting false hope to say that.    I would be saying "I would love to visit Xcountry, it's going to be so amazing!  An overseas trip probably won't be on the cards for us for the next 2-3 years, but hopefully you can show us lots of photos!"  or similar. 

When we moved heaps of people said "Ooh we'll have to come visit!" and similar, but in reality most haven't.   We don't feel that they've let us down, because we know that they were expressing a genuine "We would love to visit you in Xcountry" feeling which was not a guarantee of anything actually happening - life, money and circumstances being what they are.   I took it more as "we'll come if circumstances are such that ever permit it" not an actual promise to visit.   It was nice that they were excited about it even though in reality they would never be able to come.

[Dindrane]

If your brother is a reasonable, polite sort of person, I don't think there's any reason to assume he doesn't already know that visiting him is going to be very difficult for you. Even if he doesn't know you're trying to start a family, he does know that it's a long and expensive trip. He probably also knows it would be a miserable trip for you, since I'm sure your motion-sickness has come up before.

So unless your brother isn't reasonable or polite, you don't need to emphasize those things. He knows, and bringing it up can just make it sound like you don't actually want to visit even if you sometimes say you do.

One possibly practical consideration -- focusing on the positive idea that you would really like to visit, rather than the negative idea that circumstances will almost certainly prevent it, might save you from a lot of hurt feelings later. I live very far away from my family (I was the one who moved), and other than my parents, not a one of them has ever come to visit me in the 5 years I've lived here. I wouldn't expect my more distant relatives to visit unless they happened to be in the area (and even then, I'd only expect it if it was convenient), but I would actually like my siblings to visit me at least once. In 5 years, with all the times I've brought up my desire to see them here, with all the other travel similar in scale that they have both done in that time, all I ever hear is how it's too expensive and too far and too difficult. Which, in the end, mostly sounds like I'm not worth the expense, the distance, or the effort.

I much prefer the clearly not very meaningful expressions of their desire to visit me. It's harder to compare that to the fact that they both do a lot of traveling to a lot of other places that aren't where I live. I'd prefer it even more if they would actually focus on a desire to visit me here, because then they might have actually figured out a way to do it just once.

Seeing them when we can coordinate our visits to our parents helps, because we do manage that once or twice a year. But it's not the same as seeing them here, particularly since I have gone to see both of them where they live on more than one occasion since I moved away.

[blarg314]

I've lived abroad from my family for about ten years now, and I'm generally the one who visits. My experience is that the person who moves away, regardless of distance, is the one who does the majority of the visiting.

What I would advise for the people who are staying behind is

- Don't be too definite about saying that you'll never, ever visit. Even if it's true, moving far away from home can be pretty stressful when you're doing it. Having to adapt to the understanding that any time you ever see your family in the future will be solely on your initiative and expense can make it seem a lot more lonely.  Once you're settled in and comfortable, it can be easier to process that reality.

- Recognize and be appreciative of the effort and money the travelling side is spending, even when it's done willingly. I think that the at home set often doesn't realize how much the away part of their family is sacrificing their own vacation time and budget year after year in order to see family. If the family at home takes it for granted, or worse, demands it, it rubs salt into the wound.

- Do what you can from your end to make visiting easier. Try to gather people in one place, rather than having the visitors hop around from city to city, if that makes it easier. Offer to put them up at your home, even if it's a stretch for you - saving another $1000 or two on hotel costs can make a huge difference.  Take  a few days of your own vacation to spend time while they're visiting.

- Make an effort to keep them in the loop with family and news, particularly if they're the only ones away from a group located close to you. Figure out the time-zones so you can make a voice call on special occasions, or when telling important news.  It can make living in a foreign country a lot more lonely if you get the feeling that you've been sidelined in the family's mind.

- If you're not making any effort to visit them, be really careful about the demands you make on them. Don't get offended or pile on the guilt if they decide *not* to visit one year, because they can't afford it or are too tired.

- Recognize, in your own mind at least, the difference between "can't" and "don't want to". My sister will say that they "can't" visit us, because of the money and the vacation time and the kids.  However, they make more than we do, and have more vacation time, and having kids won't absolve us from trans-Pacific travel. The truth is that they could visit if they wanted to, but they aren't willing to accept the hassle and sacrifice it would take to do so.

[Geekychick1984]

Once again, I really appreciate all of the comments and advice, especially from those of you who have indeed been on both sides of the equation.

I especially like Ceallach's wording of "I would be saying "I would love to visit Xcountry, it's going to be so amazing!  An overseas trip probably won't be on the cards for us for the next 2-3 years, but hopefully you can show us lots of photos!"

To respond to other comments, yes I live in the US and they're moving to Europe, so it would be a long flight.  I went to Europe for the first time a year or so ago, and I was miserable both ways - I was violently ill, and motion sickness meds didn't work.  It was so awful, that while I can somewhat tolerate a shorter domestic flight, I dread them now, as I get flashbacks to that experience.  So, I'm not sure it's something I can suck up. 

Someone (I forget who) mentioned if my brother is a reasonable person...unfortunately he isn't always so.  He and SIL do expect people to spend time and money to accomodate them.  For instance, they had a desitination wedding...they were very put out that some people just couldn't make it.  Another instance off the top of my head is SIL had a b-day dinner a few years ago (I actually had a thread about it here I think).  She sent out the location, and we looked at the menu to make sure we could afford it, as I was unemployed at the time, and RSVPd yes, as we could easily eat there for $10/person.  The day of the event, she sent out a message that since it was a larger party, she'd gone ahead and reserved the pre-set menu, and it would be $40/person.  I almost didn't go, but for family harmony, we sucked it up.  Those are just a few examples.

Hopefully though, if I'm less rigid in my response as you've all suggested, it won't become an issue.  I honestly didn't think about how this may be hurtful - I suppose I didn't want to "lead them on", but from some of your responses, I can see the other side.

Maybe they'll be having such a great time experiencing and seeing great things, that they won't focus on it so much.

[DoubleTrouble]

Once again, I really appreciate all of the comments and advice, especially from those of you who have indeed been on both sides of the equation.

I especially like Ceallach's wording of "I would be saying "I would love to visit Xcountry, it's going to be so amazing!  An overseas trip probably won't be on the cards for us for the next 2-3 years, but hopefully you can show us lots of photos!"
*snip*

I think this is the best way to go. While we live close to the majority of our family, we do have relatives on both coasts plus in the Bahamas. DH & I would love to take vacations to go visit everyone but with him being in law school, we just didn't have the money/time to do so. Which meant we had to miss my brother's graduate school graduation, a huge bummer. Our policy has been the above because we really do want to travel to visit people but time/money is restrictive right now. Everyone has been very understanding.

Hopefully your family can find ways to keep in touch through technology!