Author Topic: Blog Threads  (Read 24060 times)

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still in va

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2012, 09:39:00 PM »
I think its redundant to have two conversations going on about the same thing.  Comments on the blog are comments on the blog - they are strictly moderated, and they are almost all always directed back to the original story, etc.  Whereas on the forum, its more of a discussion, with the topic often drifting, the OP participating, providing feedback & more info, etc, and comments moderated very differently.

I think its almost always impossible too, to keep from having the blog comments influence the conversation if we move a topic over to the forum.

And with the info that banned-from-the-forum folks are commenting on the blogs, it seems a bit unfair to essentially take their topics as our own.  Banned folks can still read what we are writing on the forums even if they can't participate, so it comes across as very "ha ha we could participate with you all but we'd rather have our own private conversation you can know about but that you can't participate in!  Oh but we might still butt into your conversation too, cause yours is public but ours is exclusive!" 

When we have duplicate threads on the forums one is generally shut down or left to die - like if someone reads an outrageous Dear Abby and posts it in Life in General and then someone else posts it in Entertaining, someone will say "there's already a thread on this" - well the same with blog posts being reposted - there's already a place to comment on this: the blog.

the thing is, Willy Nilly, the blog post that was being discussed until it was shut down yesterday was NOT a simultaneous discussion.  the blog post that started the discussion was from the end of July with no comments there after the first part of August, so not at all going on concurrently.

i hope the Dame and the admin team will make a policy about this, sooner rather than later.  there shall be no postings here of the blog posts over there, full stop.  or blog posts there can be posted here, but all comments will be made to the blog there, and not on this message board.

personally, though i have commented on various posts on the blog, since moderation is required for those responses to be posted, i don't really take that much time to read the comments.  i prefer the real time experience of this place.  not that there's anything wrong with the set-up on the blog; there isn't.  it's just not the way i prefer to communicate on-line.

and honestly, i don't remember the comments to the thread here about the blog post discussing the comments on the blog.  we were happily debating the points made in the blog post.

Ceallach

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2012, 09:56:34 PM »
I'm a little torn on this.   It does seem odd that within one community a sub-community needs to discuss things outside of the main community... if that makes sense.   I know we discuss posts from other sites (Dear Prudie for example) when in theory we could just go post over there instead.  But the point is that we're discussing it in "our" community and from our perspective.  And seeing as the blog *is* from our community and on the exact same topic/perspective it does seem that discussing those topics again separately is unnecessary.  It also seems a little bit cliquey as others have identified.  Another example - would we think it was ok if somebody linked to a thread on Hell's Bells saying "these posters on Hell's Bell's were discussing XYZ, do we agree or disagree?" that would seem wrong as it's basically dissenting threads in the same community. 

But on the other hand - here on the forum my identity is my own, guarded by my username and password.  On the blog, anybody could post under any name.  There is greater continuity in terms of who I am here and the opinions I share.   So I do understand why people want to bring in topics of interest from the blog to talk about in more detail.   I will be interested to see the outcome from the mods on this.
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buvezdevin

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2012, 10:25:57 PM »
I appreciate, and understand the views of PPs, and I am not familiar with whatever thread(s) prompted the origination of this one.

My personal preference would be that if there is a need for either a new rule for the forum, or a change to policy - implement a new rule that blog posts are discussed/commented on solely on the blog, and not within the forum.

While posts from other unrelated blogs, or on line columns are periodically the genesis of threads in this forum, I can appreciate that the e-hell blog and the e-hell forum are administered, moderated and maintained with different rules, practices and standards.  I would prefer the distinctions be kept for posting purposes, and - if needed - the rules for the forum be changed to specify no cross-posting of subjects or comments from the blog.  My preference arises solely from my enjoyment of the forum for posting, and the blog for reading - so I understand as well if others have a different preference, but felt I should express mine to be counted.
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Ehelldame

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2012, 08:02:57 AM »
What about this scenario: Someone notices an interesting story on the blog, posts it to the forum, and we discuss it separately from the blog post? If we are commenting ONLY on the story sent in by an anonymous source (as in one recently locked thread) and not on the comments on the blog, it's no different than commenting about the etiquette of a random news story. Is that not allowed, and if not, may I ask why?

Agreed. This is actually a long-running tradition at ehell--the Etiquette Hell Classics folder was created for this, before the main site posts were in blog format. It's comparable to when we discuss a Dear Prudence column.

The Etiquette Hell Classics are actually the archives to the stories submitted when the site published to a static HTML web site twice a year.   There was absolutely no avenue for discussion of those stories until years later when a forum was created (I think it actually started as an email list first).  The change to a blog format (moving with the times, folks) meant a new avenue to discuss those submitted stories directly.  The blog actually brings EHell back to its purest form of focusing entirely on the subject of etiquette at issue whereas the forum is more relationally oriented with a common theme of applying etiquette to daily life.   I have always viewed the forum as a place to learn how to be civil, first online, and then to real life. 

Commenting in the forum about what gets posted to the blog is not comparable to discussing a Dear Prudence column for the very obvious reason that the author of the blog is right here and usually very accessible.   Explanations that forum discussion centers around the content of the blog story and my opinions are rather interesting in that this is the first time I have been made aware of threads in the forum about the blog.  I would not have known of the most recent thread if I had not been alerted not only by a Report to Moderator but private message as well.    In other words, I am not and have not been part of the discussion about my own opinions and comments in the blog that seem to generate discussion in the forum.   And the claim that I shut down dissenting opinions just isn't born out by the facts.  The blog comments are full of people disagreeing with me.   

And none of you appear to have addressed the issue of how you would like your forum topics discussed on the blog.   Turn about is fair play,in my opinion.   

Ehelldame

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2012, 08:11:46 AM »

On the blog, anybody could post under any name.  There is greater continuity in terms of who I am here and the opinions I share.   

Actually the blog software tracks a person's ID, email address, IP address and how many submitted comments have been approved.   When a comment is waiting in moderation, I see all these things.  Twik and Virg are two recognizable forum members who comment on the blog and if some troll were to create a new "Twik", it would have a different email address and IP address and no approved comment number which raises suspicions.   

Wonderflonium

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2012, 08:21:10 AM »
And none of you appear to have addressed the issue of how you would like your forum topics discussed on the blog.   Turn about is fair play,in my opinion.

Actually, the 2 things aren't the same at all. People post on this forum to get feedback from a limited community of people. People who submit to the blog expect a wider range of readers. You said yourself that there are people who can't post in the forums but can post on the blog; therefore, the blog is inherently more open than the forum itself. Really, that's the difference between all forums and blogs.

You could certainly post forum posts on the blog, as is your right, but I imagine that if you do, there will be a rather precipitous drop-off in threads (and given that traffic is down already, it seems counterproductive).
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Joeschmo

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2012, 08:35:41 AM »
Forum discussion doesn't center around the blog but there have been a number of new threads that have and I never considered the crossover worth thinking about until this thread. I guess my confusion lies in who's experiences the blog posts are.  I thought the blog posts were submitted by readers so to me I would consider EhellDame to be the editor of the blog.  This thought process is what made me feel it was like Dear Prudie beca
use the person who actually experienced the situation in the blog post may not be readily available.
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I also was working under the assumption that if someone behaved in a way to get them banned from one branch of the forum it carried over to Hells Bells and the blog.  I never considered that banned posters on the forum were having their comments discussed and in my experience the majority of the discussion revolved around the blog post itself.  I guess another thought is I see EhellDame as the forum owner and not a participant.  To me it would seem discussing EhellDame comments would be the same as discussing any other etiquette experts because I don't perceive her as readily accessible although that's been said to be inaccurate.
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If a rule is made about that blog posts are off limits then of course we need to follow it or not post.  We don't have to agree with the rules we just have to follow them.

bonyk

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2012, 08:53:05 AM »
IMO, there's a world of difference between discussing a blog post, and discussing the comments on the blog posts.

I don't see the big deal about discussing a blog post over here.  As other posters have pointed out, this format lends itself to more of a conversational feel. 

I do agree that discussing someone's comments over here, when the person may or may not have the ability to reply, should not be allowed.

I personally would not want my posts from here moved to the blog.  If I wanted to submit a story to the blog, I would. 

Yvaine

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2012, 08:59:46 AM »
And the claim that I shut down dissenting opinions just isn't born out by the facts.  The blog comments are full of people disagreeing with me.   

Did anyone claim this? I didn't. I merely drew a comparison between the discussion of Prudence/Abby columns and your "column." While it's true that the thread you closed down was a thread that disagreed with you, I'll take your word for it that the disagreement was not the reason!  ;)

And none of you appear to have addressed the issue of how you would like your forum topics discussed on the blog.   Turn about is fair play,in my opinion.

Your tone in these comments is coming across really weirdly on the internet and sounds like a threat to disclose information posted in members-only areas, which I'm sure is not actually your intent! While I know nothing on the internet is ever truly private, it would certainly be impolite to disclose information posted in members-only areas to the general public (it differs from the main site submitters, who are submitting their story deliberately to be posted in public) and to former members who have already been deemed too disruptive to post here, and so I'm sure an etiquette maven like yourself would never actually do that.

There is no need to make these oddly threatening-sounding comments. Simply make a ruling that we can't discuss the blog stories here, and we won't. A clear rule is much better than insinuations, which are difficult to parse through the internet due to lost tone issues.

O'Dell

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2012, 09:12:18 AM »
What about this scenario: Someone notices an interesting story on the blog, posts it to the forum, and we discuss it separately from the blog post? If we are commenting ONLY on the story sent in by an anonymous source (as in one recently locked thread) and not on the comments on the blog, it's no different than commenting about the etiquette of a random news story. Is that not allowed, and if not, may I ask why?

Agreed. This is actually a long-running tradition at ehell--the Etiquette Hell Classics folder was created for this, before the main site posts were in blog format. It's comparable to when we discuss a Dear Prudence column.

The Etiquette Hell Classics are actually the archives to the stories submitted when the site published to a static HTML web site twice a year.   There was absolutely no avenue for discussion of those stories until years later when a forum was created (I think it actually started as an email list first).  The change to a blog format (moving with the times, folks) meant a new avenue to discuss those submitted stories directly.  The blog actually brings EHell back to its purest form of focusing entirely on the subject of etiquette at issue whereas the forum is more relationally oriented with a common theme of applying etiquette to daily life.   I have always viewed the forum as a place to learn how to be civil, first online, and then to real life. 

Commenting in the forum about what gets posted to the blog is not comparable to discussing a Dear Prudence column for the very obvious reason that the author of the blog is right here and usually very accessible.   Explanations that forum discussion centers around the content of the blog story and my opinions are rather interesting in that this is the first time I have been made aware of threads in the forum about the blog.  I would not have known of the most recent thread if I had not been alerted not only by a Report to Moderator but private message as well.    In other words, I am not and have not been part of the discussion about my own opinions and comments in the blog that seem to generate discussion in the forum.   And the claim that I shut down dissenting opinions just isn't born out by the facts.  The blog comments are full of people disagreeing with me.   

And none of you appear to have addressed the issue of how you would like your forum topics discussed on the blog.   Turn about is fair play,in my opinion.

I've been around awhile now and didn't know that discussing blog posts here was against the rules (or maybe I knew and forgot...I do that  :-[). Threads about the main blog seem rare enough. Why not keep with the status quo of no threads about the blog and no cross-posting of forum posts onto the blog. Like other rules here, the word is likely to get around as more people are aware and remind others and report if/when a thread crops up.

I'm not sure I see a problem with including forum posts on the blog if the poster gives permission. I seem to recall seeing a question or 2 where the person considered submitting to the blog but decided the forum was a better fit. So some forum members are open to having their posts shared on the blog.

This does bring up for me the linking of posts from the forum on the Ehell Facebook page. That's happened on one occasion that I know of. How does that fit in? People can comment on the FB page about a post you link to, or were comments disabled when that happened?
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Wonderflonium

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2012, 09:43:00 AM »
I'm not sure I see a problem with including forum posts on the blog if the poster gives permission.

I don't believe she plans to ask permission; at least, that's what her message implied.
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O'Dell

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2012, 09:54:01 AM »
I'm not sure I see a problem with including forum posts on the blog if the poster gives permission.

I don't believe she plans to ask permission; at least, that's what her message implied.

Oops, I wasn't clear.

From the Dame's OP: The policy of this forum that "what happens on the forum, stays on the forum" is meant to preserve that sense of community many of you appreciate.

Even if this policy remains unchanged, I don't see why you can't ask permission of a forum poster to use their question/story on the blog. Some might be happy to have their question or story open to a wider audience.
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bonyk

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2012, 10:14:55 AM »
This does bring up for me the linking of posts from the forum on the Ehell Facebook page. That's happened on one occasion that I know of. How does that fit in? People can comment on the FB page about a post you link to, or were comments disabled when that happened?

I don't think that is an issue.  One of my posts was linked to on the FB page, but I was PMed by a mod to ask my permission to do so.  I was assured that I could request that it be removed if I had any objections at all.

audrey1962

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2012, 10:15:21 AM »
And none of you appear to have addressed the issue of how you would like your forum topics discussed on the blog.   Turn about is fair play,in my opinion.

I don't care either way as long as the rules are clearly stated.

I belong to another community that has a blog and a forum. The rule is that if something is brought up on the forum it will not be discussed on the blog, but topics on the blog can be discussed on the forum. The blog owner wants first crack at answering the question, but once she has answered it we are free to discuss it in either venue.

Jones

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Re: Blog Threads
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2012, 10:36:29 AM »
Personally? I don't have a problem with my topics, humble as they are, being shared on the blog...after all, once I post it, even in this community, there are tons of people out there with access to it who can then discuss it with their friends/spouses/relatives. I have actually submitted stories to the blog; those that have been posted had, not so much a "discussion" as "a bunch of points of view that I could use or dismiss but not really reply to the poster because not everyone comes back after the first day."

Perhaps though, if this is something that is going to happen, a default message needs put onto the "Post" page that says "Thread topics may be utilized as blog subjects" or "Once posted your story may be used by Ehell" or something along those lines. Likewise, if some blog post is to be discussed on this side of the website, a note could be attached to said blog post stating the URL of the discussion thread.

Also, I did not realize that blog posts were not to be posted/discussed over here; this is the first I can recall hearing about that. If I've contributed to a problem, I am sorry; again, I wasn't aware if it wasn't allowed.