CrudeBoy and My Things

[Slartibartfast]

You call him CrudeBoy in the post but CreepyBoy in the title and in your response - has he done something crude or creepy?  So far what you posted sounds like kids being kids.  Mean kids, yes, but kids.  What did the teacher do - was there detention involved, or did she just give you a heads-up?

In any case, I don't think you can address any of what you mentioned in your post.  If the teacher is doing something you don't like, you can address that with her, but only inasfar as it is affecting your daughters unfairly.

[bopper]

I would not send that letter.
You have talked to the teacher, so that puts them on the alert for issues between Creepyboy and your girls.

At this point unless you think there are serious issues, I would see what happens. This type of thing is sort of normal although annoying.  Ask your kids about their day and see if they talk about these kids or not.  If you hear alot about them, then perhaps talk to the guidance  counselor about it.  If you don't hear much, you ask them how those kids are doing and if they still eat with them.  If it is affecting the girls schoolwork, then talk to the teacher again about keeping them separated.

[Zilla]

I wouldn't send it either. 


I would instead roleplay with your girls and help them deal with all the characters in your story.  That way they can see how their action can send a confusing message.  And maybe you can help have them have more trust in each other that if they hear a "rumor" they will first give the benefit of the doubt to each other and refute that rumor.


It's unfortunate but your cast of characters are very atypical of school life nowadays.

[lisastitch]

Add my vote to those who say you shouldn't send the letter.

Talk to your girls about the situation, their feelings, their options, etc., and keep revisiting it.  They're growing up and need to learn to handle things.

If you do decide to talk to/email the teacher, I would ask for her input in a very general way on the situation.  Explain that your girls are having some issues with other children, and you'd like to get the teacher's impressions on what's going on.  She is (or should be) a relatively unbiased, impartial observer who has more experience than you do with what's going on socially with this age group. 

[Deetee]

As with everyone else I don't understand what happened or why this is a problem that should involve a teacher or parents. Why did your kids get detention? Why is the boy creepy? Almost everything important seems to be missing.

Anyhow don't send the email and focus on your kids.

[bah12]

I wrote a response earlier and then had computer problems, but the gist of it was basically that this sounds like how kids that age sometimes act.  It's not right for them to act that way, but I believe that it's the parents' responsibility, not the teachers', to talk to them and help them navigate the playground social minefield.

The teachers can't be responsible to make sure that all the kids get along. But you can definitely teach your girls how to recognize behaviors that show the kids are being manipulative vs. friendly. 

This is no doubt a tough age and I'm sure that as a parent, you hate to see other kids say hurtful things.  But, this is for you to handle with your kids.  This isn't the first time they're going to run into something like this, so better to start teaching them how to handle it.

[DavidH]

I strongly suggest you don't send that letter, since it would likely get you labeled as that parent or worse.  I see a couple of problems; it comes across as reporting gossipy nonsense and elevating to an inappropriate level.  In addition, you girls come out looking like part of the problem.  For example, the entire first lunch table incident could have been solved in a number of ways, T2 could have spoken up initially and denied saying she wanted T1 out of the group. Alternatively T1 could have put T2 on the spot on asked her if she really said that.  T1 could also have told QB not to lie, that she knows T2 would never say that.

[The Lunchlady]

The teacher gave T2 detention because of some sort of playground tiff? That seems way off to me.

Actually, T2 received a detention for an incident last week when QWB put a 'kick me' note on the back of a kid she has known since kindergarten. When kid discovered the post it, QWB told T2 did it, the kid complained to the teacher. T2s protestations earned her a trouble maker label along with the detention.

My reaction to all this may be due to my own hyper vigilance to injustice, smears, liars and manipulators that I've carried over from being raised by a mentally ill parent. 

Thanks to the posters who suggested DH and I roll play. We had a great talk at dinner with the girls this evening, and it seems like the girls are beginning to understand not every one who acts friendly has friendly motives. We discussed various scenarios and outcomes from the last two weeks, and what the outcome may have been IF they trusted each other (there is no reason for them not do so). We roll played a 'trust and verify with your sibling' strategy with them.

As parents, we have never discussed these sorts of interpersonal issues with them; this sort of thing hasn't been part their experience thus far, and now they need a crash course.

You call him CrudeBoy in the post but CreepyBoy in the title and in your response - has he done something crude or creepy? 

When I edited my version for public viewing, I was undecided on what to name the boy. Both were in my head, as I have never encountered a child like him so up close and personal. Knowing his back story, either appellation could work. Sorry for confusing things; I should edit the title for continuity, if that's possible.

I did not and will not send the letter. I appreciate all your thoughts on why it would be a bad idea. Causing more problems for my children is the last thing I want to do. I've been away from home all day, and we've been out since after school, so I'm still catching up on this thread. Thing2 had a band program this evening, where the principal approached me there to ask how they liked their new school. I told her that they like it, not wanting to go into any details on what I discussed with the teachers. I'm sure she's already aware of the conversations, and I really do not want to be. that. parent. And I really, really do not want to get caught up in pre-teen drama-trauma-o-rama. Been there, didn't like it. Don't want to redux.

ETA: I am glad that I had both my girls help me reconstruct the events if only to sort out what exactly has been happening. I know that the only resolution lies with  DH and I giving them the tools to help them in this and future situations.

[sammycat]

Actually, T2 received a detention for an incident last week when QWB put a 'kick me' note on the back of a kid she has known since kindergarten. When kid discovered the post it, QWB told T2 did it, the kid complained to the teacher. T2s protestations earned her a trouble maker label along with the detention.

If you can verify 100% that your DD wasn't involved in that incident, that is something I would be addressing with the teacher.  Never in a million years would I let my child get away with a teacher punishing them for something they didn't do, or being a labelled a troublemaker (that's the worse part of it IMO).

I would also be questioning my children as to why they would be friends with someone who treated their sibling so badly.  I really can't imagine being friends with someone who was deliberately rude/mean/cruel to my sister.

[BC12]

Actually, T2 received a detention for an incident last week when QWB put a 'kick me' note on the back of a kid she has known since kindergarten. When kid discovered the post it, QWB told T2 did it, the kid complained to the teacher. T2s protestations earned her a trouble maker label along with the detention.

If you can verify 100% that your DD wasn't involved in that incident, that is something I would be addressing with the teacher.  Never in a million years would I let my child get away with a teacher punishing them for something they didn't do, or being a labelled a troublemaker (that's the worse part of it IMO).

It doesn't sound like anyone was actually labeled a troublemaker, because the teacher "dismissed the entire incident as puberty."

OP, I'm glad you decided against sending that letter. I think it would be best to drop it this time. If problems continue, then you can deal with them as they come. But T2's wrongful detention will hopefully be a good lesson in "Life's not fair sometimes." And "If you lie down with dogs, you'll get fleas." I personally would not forbid them from being friends with the boy or the girl, but I would be sure that they understood that if they continue to associate with these kids, they are putting themselves in the position to be wrongfully accused of things that will get them into trouble. Help them realize that the girl did something very wrong and hurtful by making up lies.

I wish I had been taught how to better handle kids like this when I was young. I allowed people to wrong me and I never stood up for myself. Example: (And this is a little embarrassing to admit, now.) In high school tennis class, a boy who I was "friends" with took my tennis racket and very purposefully destroyed it. Right in front of my eyes as we were sitting and talking in a group of friends. I said and did absolutely nothing about it. It was like I didn't even know I could have said something about it. It didn't really even occur to me, and if it had, I wouldn't have had the words to convey "Hey, stop doing that." I wasn't really even a timid kid or anything, I just had no idea how to stand up for myself.

And now that I think back on it, I say to myself, "Why on earth were you friends with that kid?" I bet your daughters will one day also think, "Why on earth did I keep being friends with that kid who made up lies about me and got me into trouble?" Please help them figure this out sooner rather than later.

[violinp]

Actually, T2 received a detention for an incident last week when QWB put a 'kick me' note on the back of a kid she has known since kindergarten. When kid discovered the post it, QWB told T2 did it, the kid complained to the teacher. T2s protestations earned her a trouble maker label along with the detention.

If you can verify 100% that your DD wasn't involved in that incident, that is something I would be addressing with the teacher.  Never in a million years would I let my child get away with a teacher punishing them for something they didn't do, or being a labelled a troublemaker (that's the worse part of it IMO).

I would also be questioning my children as to why they would be friends with someone who treated their sibling so badly.  I really can't imagine being friends with someone who was deliberately rude/mean/cruel to my sister.

Because they're scared they won't have any friends if they do. They're scared that that's the best they can do. I know it's not a pretty answer, but that's the answer kids that age give. They value being accepted by their peers, sometimes to the detriment of their familial rel@tionships.

[LeveeWoman]

Actually, T2 received a detention for an incident last week when QWB put a 'kick me' note on the back of a kid she has known since kindergarten. When kid discovered the post it, QWB told T2 did it, the kid complained to the teacher. T2s protestations earned her a trouble maker label along with the detention.

If you can verify 100% that your DD wasn't involved in that incident, that is something I would be addressing with the teacher.  Never in a million years would I let my child get away with a teacher punishing them for something they didn't do, or being a labelled a troublemaker (that's the worse part of it IMO).

I would also be questioning my children as to why they would be friends with someone who treated their sibling so badly.  I really can't imagine being friends with someone who was deliberately rude/mean/cruel to my sister.

Same here. My son got detention a few times in elementary school but they were all based on his penchant for being the class-clown and he earned each and every one. Each time he was ordered to detention (which involved sitting at a desk an empty room in the office), the principal called me and explained the situation.

If the situation had involved what might be a lying bully, I would have stepped in by having a sit-down discussion with the principal.

[JenJay]

I agree with those saying they'd address the detention issue (water under the bridge now, but if it happens again). If the teacher can't determine for sure which girl put the note on the boy then she needs to warn them both she'll be watching closely and let it go.

I think that's your "in" with your daughters. Ask them why they want to be friends with a girl who tries to turn them against each other, bullies other kids, and, when caught, blames the bullying on them. Doesn't sound like much of a friend. 

[TootsNYC]

I agree with those saying they'd address the detention issue (water under the bridge now, but if it happens again). If the teacher can't determine for sure which girl put the note on the boy then she needs to warn them both she'll be watching closely and let it go.

I think that's your "in" with your daughters. Ask them why they want to be friends with a girl who tries to turn them against each other, bullies other kids, and, when caught, blames the bullying on them. Doesn't sound like much of a friend. 

The "sitting by and letting a bully get away with a mean lie" is absolutely what anti-bullying efforts focus on. That would be a focus for me. Kids need support and training for what to do in these instances--the thread about the guy who grabs women's butts is a perfect example--your girls are learning to "not make a fuss" when something truly bad happens.

and if they are afraid they won't have friends, I think it's worth pointing out that there ARE other people (the generic girls) who will reach out to them--but won't reach out to them if they're hanging out with this unpleasant girl and unpleasant boy. So if they start to separate from these two, they'll find that the opportunities to make other, better friends will arise. But they HAVE to leave room for it.


There's a reason these two have latched on to your girls--your girls are new, and they haven't figured out by now that these two are bad news. They're learning the lessons the other kids learned long ago.

[bonyk]

I wouldn't worry about your daughter being "labeled" by her teacher.  I am a teacher, and it definitely takes more than an isolated incident for me to draw a conclusion about a students character.

I'm glad you didn't send the letter.  If these problems persist in the future, and you feel like you need to send a letter, focus on what you want the teacher to do, not all of the back story.  A simple, "I don't like the way DD, QWB, and Creepy act together.  I have asked her to stay away from them, and I would appreciate if you could keep this in mind for seating arrangements, especially at lunch.  Thanks!," tells the teacher exactly how to help you.