Author Topic: Overstepping vs. offering advice after the conversation  (Read 7240 times)

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O'Dell

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Re: Overstepping vs. offering advice after the conversation
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2012, 11:12:40 AM »
Venting is fine. It was the hour of venting about potty training that I would want to shut down.  An hour of complaining about anything would drive me batty.

In general an excellent way to stop self-indulgent whining is to not be a purely sympathetic sounding board.

I'm with you. I've done this. Suggestions aren't inherently rude, but monopolizing a conversation is. I don't consider it mean-spirited or retaliatory rudeness. But I don't just make any old suggestion. I resort to blunt honesty and if it shuts down the whining so be it, but I'd much rather it jolted them into rethinking what it is they are whining about.

There are consequences. Some people appreciate my bluntness. Some don't. I find it weeds out acquaintances from friends quickly. Definitely a "your millage may vary" situation.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.
Walt Whitman

Knitterly

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Re: Overstepping vs. offering advice after the conversation
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2012, 11:18:49 AM »
Honestly- since we're discussing advice and you seem to feel it's okay to share it.. :) Your discussion of potty training would annoy me (cloth diaper evangelism? my child trained reasonably early and he was in disposables) and I didn't even have an issue with training mine. What works for one child will not for another. Not to mention, if you come across thinking you are doing everything right, and then your child relapses (which can happen frequently around 3 whether the child was trained before or not), you are going to have egg on your face. Don't set yourself up as an expert to other parent-friends, because it will do nothing but breed resentment.

I feel like that's very unfair.

I am in the extremely difficult position of not being able to ask anyone for advice because LK is training early.  I have tried.  Every single question from "where can I buy very small training pants that don't cost a small fortune?" to "do you have any suggestions for rewarding big successes (like holding it in until we reach a potty) in a child who is too little for the usual rewards?" gets met with "she's too young, don't even bother."  It is supremely frustrating.

I genuinely do not understand the attitude of competition that forbids parents from sharing ideas or asking for advice.  I don't know where you got the idea of cloth diaper evangelism from anything I have said, except when I mentioned that she was in cloth diapers as the reason why she's learning young.  And again, that's not actually my opinion, that was an opinion that came to me from other sources.  Lots of other sources, including a cloth diapering group I belong to.  But even in the cloth diapering group, when I asked for advice and suggestions, I still got shut down pretty quick and all the conversation came to me later on by email.

I do NOT go running around telling other parents that they MUST do things this way and that way is WRONG.  I encourage some friends to try cloth diapering because I find it hugely convenient to my budget and to our local garbage bag limit.  But most of them don't and I don't judge them for that.  It's their choice.  I certainly don't "evangelize".

Can you please quote the specific post that gave you the impression that I come across thinking I'm doing everything right and the one that suggests "cloth diaper evangelism"?  If I am saying something specific to give this impression, I would like to correct it right away, especially if it is an unconscious thing that I may be carrying over into my real life.

bah12

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Re: Overstepping vs. offering advice after the conversation
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2012, 11:38:41 AM »
Honestly- since we're discussing advice and you seem to feel it's okay to share it.. :) Your discussion of potty training would annoy me (cloth diaper evangelism? my child trained reasonably early and he was in disposables) and I didn't even have an issue with training mine. What works for one child will not for another. Not to mention, if you come across thinking you are doing everything right, and then your child relapses (which can happen frequently around 3 whether the child was trained before or not), you are going to have egg on your face. Don't set yourself up as an expert to other parent-friends, because it will do nothing but breed resentment.

I feel like that's very unfair.

I am in the extremely difficult position of not being able to ask anyone for advice because LK is training early.  I have tried.  Every single question from "where can I buy very small training pants that don't cost a small fortune?" to "do you have any suggestions for rewarding big successes (like holding it in until we reach a potty) in a child who is too little for the usual rewards?" gets met with "she's too young, don't even bother."  It is supremely frustrating.

I genuinely do not understand the attitude of competition that forbids parents from sharing ideas or asking for advice.  I don't know where you got the idea of cloth diaper evangelism from anything I have said, except when I mentioned that she was in cloth diapers as the reason why she's learning young.  And again, that's not actually my opinion, that was an opinion that came to me from other sources.  Lots of other sources, including a cloth diapering group I belong to.  But even in the cloth diapering group, when I asked for advice and suggestions, I still got shut down pretty quick and all the conversation came to me later on by email.

I do NOT go running around telling other parents that they MUST do things this way and that way is WRONG.  I encourage some friends to try cloth diapering because I find it hugely convenient to my budget and to our local garbage bag limit.  But most of them don't and I don't judge them for that.  It's their choice.  I certainly don't "evangelize".

Can you please quote the specific post that gave you the impression that I come across thinking I'm doing everything right and the one that suggests "cloth diaper evangelism"?  If I am saying something specific to give this impression, I would like to correct it right away, especially if it is an unconscious thing that I may be carrying over into my real life.

I get the frustration and I think you just have to know who and how to ask for advice on a child that is reaching milestones early.  My DD potty trained relatively early (just before her 2nd birthday) and she's small, so I had a hard time finding underwear to fit her.  It wouldn't have helped me to ask a mother who hasn't run into that sort of problem, so I asked people who also had small children out of diapers.  And I used the internet.  Telling someone who's 3 year old is still in diapers that you can't find training pants small enough for your 14 month old, may come across as bragging.  (This is just an example, I'm not accusing you of doing it).

The thing is, whether or not it makes sense, talking about kids and milestones is a sensitive subject.  I think it just comes to the personal identidy parents have to their children.  For instance, I feel so extremely close to my DD...she's a part of me, so if someone says even the slightest thing about her or makes a comment about something they are doing differently with their kid, I take it very personally.  I shouldn't...but I do.  And while some mothers are awesome at not comparing their kids to others or worrying when some child did something that theirs didn't, I would say that most of us are human and worrying/comparing and worring some more is just in our nature.

So, the only advice I can really offer you is to just understand that it sucks and it's hard to find true comraderie in parenting.  So, know your audience/source when asking for advice or offering antedoctes on your child's development.

That, and we used one M&M as a reward during potty training (worked like a charm) and that the internet, sewing, and training pants with good waist and leg elastic is all you need (even if it is big everywhere else).   Also, you'll spend slightly more until she grows into the convential underwear.   

TurtleDove

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Re: Overstepping vs. offering advice after the conversation
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2012, 11:39:57 AM »
I am in the extremely difficult position of not being able to ask anyone for advice because LK is training early.  I have tried.  Every single question from "where can I buy very small training pants that don't cost a small fortune?" to "do you have any suggestions for rewarding big successes (like holding it in until we reach a potty) in a child who is too little for the usual rewards?" gets met with "she's too young, don't even bother."  It is supremely frustrating.

I believe you that you mean well, but your posts do come across as boastful about your child's success and your role in it, which unfortunately does come across as judgmental of parents whose kids do not share the same success.  It really does come across (and I believe you that you don't mean it to) that you believe the "less successful" parents are doing something wrong.  As a parent who knows a lot of other parents with children of varying ages and dispositions, I can affirm what other posters have said - what works for one child, may not work for another child, even siblings with the same parents in the same house, and yes, even twins. 

As an aside, and to point out that your way is not the universally accepted best way even though it works for you, well respected child rearing experts advocate NOT rewarding children for something they should be doing anyway, like going potty in the potty.  Encouraging them and praising them for it, yes.  Rewarding them, no.  Is it wrong to reward?  Certainly not for a lot of parents.  Is is wrong not to reward?  Again, certainly not for a lot of parents.

MariaE

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Re: Overstepping vs. offering advice after the conversation
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2012, 12:18:26 PM »
I am in the extremely difficult position of not being able to ask anyone for advice because LK is training early.  I have tried.  Every single question from "where can I buy very small training pants that don't cost a small fortune?" to "do you have any suggestions for rewarding big successes (like holding it in until we reach a potty) in a child who is too little for the usual rewards?" gets met with "she's too young, don't even bother."  It is supremely frustrating.

I believe you that you mean well, but your posts do come across as boastful about your child's success and your role in it, which unfortunately does come across as judgmental of parents whose kids do not share the same success.  It really does come across (and I believe you that you don't mean it to) that you believe the "less successful" parents are doing something wrong.  As a parent who knows a lot of other parents with children of varying ages and dispositions, I can affirm what other posters have said - what works for one child, may not work for another child, even siblings with the same parents in the same house, and yes, even twins. 

As an aside, and to point out that your way is not the universally accepted best way even though it works for you, well respected child rearing experts advocate NOT rewarding children for something they should be doing anyway, like going potty in the potty.  Encouraging them and praising them for it, yes.  Rewarding them, no.  Is it wrong to reward?  Certainly not for a lot of parents.  Is is wrong not to reward?  Again, certainly not for a lot of parents.

I completely disagree. I don't get any boastful vibes from Knitterly's posts at all! She recognizes it was luck rather than skills.

(Sorry to talk about you like you're not here, Knitterly).
 
Dane by birth, Kiwi by choice

Deetee

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Re: Overstepping vs. offering advice after the conversation
« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2012, 12:39:34 PM »
I am in the extremely difficult position of not being able to ask anyone for advice because LK is training early.  I have tried.  Every single question from "where can I buy very small training pants that don't cost a small fortune?" to "do you have any suggestions for rewarding big successes (like holding it in until we reach a potty) in a child who is too little for the usual rewards?" gets met with "she's too young, don't even bother."  It is supremely frustrating.

I believe you that you mean well, but your posts do come across as boastful about your child's success and your role in it, which unfortunately does come across as judgmental of parents whose kids do not share the same success.  It really does come across (and I believe you that you don't mean it to) that you believe the "less successful" parents are doing something wrong.  As a parent who knows a lot of other parents with children of varying ages and dispositions, I can affirm what other posters have said - what works for one child, may not work for another child, even siblings with the same parents in the same house, and yes, even twins. 

As an aside, and to point out that your way is not the universally accepted best way even though it works for you, well respected child rearing experts advocate NOT rewarding children for something they should be doing anyway, like going potty in the potty.  Encouraging them and praising them for it, yes.  Rewarding them, no.  Is it wrong to reward?  Certainly not for a lot of parents.  Is is wrong not to reward?  Again, certainly not for a lot of parents.

I think there  is some truth to this. I mean it's great that LK is being potty trained and that you are having success with that process. As I stated upthread, it was the near opposite of my approach, but I know people (and swap parenting tips) with parents who started at 6 months, so I have no issues with people who start earlier.

However, in order to potty train, my general theory (that anyone is free to disagree with) is that you have the
a) inclination of the child.
b) ability of the child.
c) level of parental involvement

With a lot of parental involvement you can affect the inclination and therefore the ability (to a limited extent). I think that you pretty much need a full time parent to potty train early. My kid is at daycare and, as far as I know, not a single kid at daycare was potty trained before 2. There were about 20 kids. Also, as far as I know, they are all trained by 4, but I have never asked.

So from that, I think it's possible to potty train before 2, but it involves a lot of work and a lot of luck.

I think what a lot of people are trying to say is that you are emphasising your knowledge in this area when there is a a lot of luck as well (which you have acknowledged, but have not as detailed) and it is important to realise that many kids, much older, with exactly the plan that you are using would simply not potty train.

Also (and more importantly) this parent isn't using poor potty training techniques. She is using no potty training techniques. She wants to wish hard and complain when it doesn't work. This isn't a parenting issue, this is a lazy complaining person issue. I bet she also complain when it doesn't rain money.

The lazy part, I'm down with. That is the approach I used to potty train. The complaining part, not so much (though I will acknowledge that I did some wishful complaining related to daughter's sleeping and proponents of various methods likely rolled their eyes)

gramma dishes

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Re: Overstepping vs. offering advice after the conversation
« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2012, 12:57:00 PM »
...    My kid is at daycare and, as far as I know, not a single kid at daycare was potty trained before 2. There were about 20 kids. Also, as far as I know, they are all trained by 4, but I have never asked.


Many day cares have a policy that in order to 'move up' to the three year old room, you must be potty trained.  (The teachers and aides in that room won't change diapers.)  It works as an amazingly effective incentive for some of those who have been reluctant to use the potty when they see that their friends are all moving on without them. 

Deetee

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Re: Overstepping vs. offering advice after the conversation
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2012, 01:48:55 PM »
...    My kid is at daycare and, as far as I know, not a single kid at daycare was potty trained before 2. There were about 20 kids. Also, as far as I know, they are all trained by 4, but I have never asked.


Many day cares have a policy that in order to 'move up' to the three year old room, you must be potty trained.  (The teachers and aides in that room won't change diapers.)  It works as an amazingly effective incentive for some of those who have been reluctant to use the potty when they see that their friends are all moving on without them.

At our daycare, the kids move up at 3, but I know there is not the same requirement. They help with potty training in the 18 month to 3 year section. All kids are given a chance to sit on the potty at least twice a day (or on request).

But I know that a few of the kids in the 3-5 are still in diapers. The daycare really want kids to move up to 3-5 as they can staff at a 1:8 ratio instead of a 1:4 ratio. ((The cost just goes down alittle)

This kinda got off topic, didn't it?

Wordgeek

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Re: Overstepping vs. offering advice after the conversation
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2012, 01:53:38 PM »
Quote
This kinda got off topic, didn't it?

Yes, it did.  Thread closed.