Author Topic: Handing it to a jerk on live TV  (Read 8356 times)

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JoieGirl7

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2012, 02:32:09 PM »
I am not in agreement with the consensus.
 
If you are self-possessed and truly don't care what other people think about your weight, or your hair, or anything else then you ignore nasty emails like that.
 
It's obvious that he got to her.  As far as I can see the "bully" got exactly what he wanted--a reaction.
 

WillyNilly

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2012, 02:41:40 PM »
I am not in agreement with the consensus.
 
If you are self-possessed and truly don't care what other people think about your weight, or your hair, or anything else then you ignore nasty emails like that.
 
It's obvious that he got to her.  As far as I can see the "bully" got exactly what he wanted--a reaction.

Well... her husband posted it on the internet and she says the show's Facebook page was all a flutter about it, so I think addressing it was the way to go.

I think her point was also that by not being silent and ignoring it, she got a huge outpouring of support from family, co-workers, viewers etc.  And that's an important message to bullied kids - you can suffer in silence, but if you speak up you will find you are not alone, people want to defend you.

I think if she'd remained silent the "bully" would have thought she was too ashamed to say anything, and he would have smugly thought he came out on top.

violinp

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2012, 03:02:51 PM »
I am not in agreement with the consensus.
 
If you are self-possessed and truly don't care what other people think about your weight, or your hair, or anything else then you ignore nasty emails like that.
 
It's obvious that he got to her.  As far as I can see the "bully" got exactly what he wanted--a reaction.

Well... her husband posted it on the internet and she says the show's Facebook page was all a flutter about it, so I think addressing it was the way to go.

I think her point was also that by not being silent and ignoring it, she got a huge outpouring of support from family, co-workers, viewers etc.  And that's an important message to bullied kids - you can suffer in silence, but if you speak up you will find you are not alone, people want to defend you.

I think if she'd remained silent the "bully" would have thought she was too ashamed to say anything, and he would have smugly thought he came out on top.

That, exactly.
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jemma

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2012, 03:19:36 PM »
I worry that this bullying thing is going to be used the wrong way.  People are saying some really mean things about the letter writer, but if you believe that people can control their weight and that being very heavy is worse than being normal weight, then he doesn't deserve this level of vitriol.  The letter itself was written relatively politely.  It just seem like in many cases who is being bullied isn't so clear (the man who sent a polite letter meant to be read by a single person, or the masses publicly flaming him).  In this case both she and he are successful adults, but in the case of children I hope we are very careful to make sure that we don't punish a victim of bullying for responding.  I have a feeling that when the generation now in schools grows up, we will hear lots of stories of kids being tormented by classmates in private, responding in public, and then being punished for bullying.  It's such a hard issue to address, but people should certainly not be reacting with the level of vitriol toward the letter writer that I have seen on some other sites.

(I don't believe in the calorie in calorie out theory btw and think we would have a lot less meanness if people had a more realistic view of what causes weight gain.  I certainly find it hard to believe that a successful anchor is such an uncontrolled hedonist that she is fat because she pigs outr all the time!)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 03:23:08 PM by jemma »

Diane AKA Traska

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2012, 03:25:02 PM »
The letter was written with the air of "Who do you think you are, being on television like being fat is okay enough to be seen in public?"

Also, I'd like to throw in my support once again for her standing up.  In silence, only bullies profit.  The notion that if you ignore a bully they'll go away is false.  Ignoring a bully just tells them you'll sit and take it.
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Yvaine

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2012, 03:32:23 PM »
I worry that this bullying thing is going to be used the wrong way.  People are saying some really mean things about the letter writer, but if you believe that people can control their weight and that being very heavy is worse than being normal weight, then he doesn't deserve this level of vitriol. 

No matter what one believes about the science of weight, obesity, and weight loss, what we're reviling him for is the rudeness of bring a critical busybody about it. He can think whatever he wants about her weight in his head.

We've got another thread going right now that's about kids being rude by criticizing adults for their health choices. Adults shouldn't do it either--in fact, adults have more of a responsibility to know better. What good does it do to write a letter to a stranger to criticize her weight? It's just rude. I don't care what the science is or whether the woman is comfortable in her own body--it doesn't matter. It's rude.

Judah

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2012, 03:33:52 PM »
I worry that this bullying thing is going to be used the wrong way.  People are saying some really mean things about the letter writer, but if you believe that people can control their weight and that being very heavy is worse than being normal weight, then he doesn't deserve this level of vitriol. The letter itself was written relatively politely.  It just seem like in many cases who is being bullied isn't so clear (the man who sent a polite letter meant to be read by a single person, or the masses publicly flaming him).  In this case both she and he are successful adults, but in the case of children I hope we are very careful to make sure that we don't punish a victim of bullying for responding.  I have a feeling that when the generation now in schools grows up, we will hear lots of stories of kids being tormented by classmates in private, responding in public, and then being punished for bullying.  It's such a hard issue to address, but people should certainly not be reacting with the level of vitriol toward the letter writer that I have seen on some other sites.

(I don't believe in the calorie in calorie out theory btw and think we would have a lot less meanness if people had a more realistic view of what causes weight gain.  I certainly find it hard to believe that a successful anchor is such an uncontrolled hedonist that she is fat because she pigs outr all the time!)

There is nothing polite about that letter. The very fact that the letter was written is rude.  It's never polite to give unsolicited advice which is what the letter writer was doing in the letter. It's never polite to call someone fat if they didn't ask you.  It's never polite to interject yourself into a situation that doesn't involve you.  Nope, there was nothing polite about the letter.
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Twik

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2012, 03:40:51 PM »
I worry that this bullying thing is going to be used the wrong way.  People are saying some really mean things about the letter writer, but if you believe that people can control their weight and that being very heavy is worse than being normal weight, then he doesn't deserve this level of vitriol.

Of course he deserved vitriol. Any decent person knows that one doesn't go around castigating people at random for their flaws, physical or otherwise.

I agree with Judah - the very fact the writer sent this to a stranger was incredibly rude. THere's no way on earth you can do this and call it even "relatively" polite.

Quote
In this case both she and he are successful adults, but in the case of children I hope we are very careful to make sure that we don't punish a victim of bullying for responding.  I have a feeling that when the generation now in schools grows up, we will hear lots of stories of kids being tormented by classmates in private, responding in public, and then being punished for bullying.  It's such a hard issue to address, but people should certainly not be reacting with the level of vitriol toward the letter writer that I have seen on some other sites.

I'm really not sure how this relates to the story in this thread. Are you implhing that he is a victim in some way?He was not "tormented in private", unless you believe being forced to get his news from someone he didn't consider sexually attractive enough was cruel and unusual.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 03:57:12 PM by Twik »
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Cleargleam

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2012, 03:41:25 PM »
I worry that this bullying thing is going to be used the wrong way.  People are saying some really mean things about the letter writer, but if you believe that people can control their weight and that being very heavy is worse than being normal weight, then he doesn't deserve this level of vitriol.  The letter itself was written relatively politely.  It just seem like in many cases who is being bullied isn't so clear (the man who sent a polite letter meant to be read by a single person, or the masses publicly flaming him).  In this case both she and he are successful adults, but in the case of children I hope we are very careful to make sure that we don't punish a victim of bullying for responding.  I have a feeling that when the generation now in schools grows up, we will hear lots of stories of kids being tormented by classmates in private, responding in public, and then being punished for bullying.  It's such a hard issue to address, but people should certainly not be reacting with the level of vitriol toward the letter writer that I have seen on some other sites.
(snip)



At best, the letter is harassing - the letter writer says that "as a community service and as a role model (especially for girls)" the anchor needs to be slimmer.

In what way do you consider that polite or appropriate?

Women across the US are fighting to achieve a healthy body image, no matter their weight. Girls are being told through television *all the time* that their weight and their looks determine their options, and sometimes their character.

This <I have no words> is actively attempting to foster that view.

That may be acceptable behavior in other places, but there is no place for that behavior in the US.

This anchor is demonstrating by her life and career that one's weight does not make one less articulate, less well informed, or less presentable to the general public.

The <> would have her believe that she has a civic duty to hide away until she loses weight.

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jemma

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2012, 03:56:43 PM »
My point is that nobody deserves vitriol period.  Making a mistake that violates social norms is not an excuse for masses of people to say nasty things about you.  (Otherwise is it ok to bully people with autism?  They often accidentally say mean things.)  The appropriate response would be for everyone to agree that being heavy or thin is not a reflection of someone's character, and we should all be nice to each other.  This anti bullying is being used as an excuse to revile someone.  It would be better if we tried to turn this into a positive discussion instead of an excuse to say mean things about someone. 

Yvaine

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2012, 03:58:58 PM »
My point is that nobody deserves vitriol period.  Making a mistake that violates social norms is not an excuse for masses of people to say nasty things about you.  (Otherwise is it ok to bully people with autism?  They often accidentally say mean things.)

But we're talking about someone who deliberately said mean things. And not only just blurted them in a foot-in-mouth moment, but committed them to writing and hit Send. I think it's very different to criticize someone for a deliberate act of rudeness vs. an accidental act of rudeness or the perceived flaws of their physical appearance.

(And we're not really saying "mean things" about him--we're saying he was rude. We say people are rude all the livelong day on this site. We're not telling him he's ugly and his mother wears combat boots.)

buvezdevin

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2012, 04:01:01 PM »
The anchorwoman in question, and her husband were on GMA and the below link condenses their further remarks, which are enlightening.

The anchorwoman points out that calling her obese is one thing, but calling her a bad role model (based solely on her weight, though she has served the community for 15 years) is another.  She also notes that trying to shame her into weight loss isn't helpful - it's bullying.  And I agree. 

Her husband notes that his wife works out regularly, Ran a 5k last week and will run another race this weekend - and she has a thyroid condition which makes weight loss a problem.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/10/jennifer-livingston-television-news-anchor-la-crosse-wisconsin-bullying-good

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Bexx27

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2012, 04:11:27 PM »
People are saying some really mean things about the letter writer, but if you believe that people can control their weight and that being very heavy is worse than being normal weight, then he doesn't deserve this level of vitriol. 

Well, I for one don't believe that people (always) have (complete) control over their weight. Obesity is not exactly the "choice" the letter writer framed it as. I find it hard to believe that anyone who has to live in our society would consciously choose to be fat. But the myth of choice is the main reason prejudice toward fat people is accepted, even encouraged.

I also strongly disagree that "being very heavy is worse than being normal weight." No, it isn't "worse." It may put you at a higher risk for certain health problems, it may mean that fewer people consider you attractive, and it may make your life generally more difficult because of the associated stigma, but it doesn't make you worse in any objective sense. It doesn't make you worth less than anyone else; it doesn't make you unfit to be a role model; it doesn't disqualify you from having a successful career or from being seen in public.

So yes, I think the letter writer deserved to be called out. If we don't publicly confront people who spew bigotry, and publicly declare that it's wrong, how will we stop it?
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Judah

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2012, 04:12:46 PM »
My point is that nobody deserves vitriol period. 

I disagree. I think that when I choose to do something that is not just rude, but downright mean, I have to live with the social consequences of that action.  In this case, the letter writer's consequence is that a whole country is calling him/her actions.
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Cleargleam

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2012, 04:16:14 PM »
My point is that nobody deserves vitriol period.  Making a mistake that violates social norms is not an excuse for masses of people to say nasty things about you.  (Otherwise is it ok to bully people with autism?  They often accidentally say mean things.)  The appropriate response would be for everyone to agree that being heavy or thin is not a reflection of someone's character, and we should all be nice to each other.  This anti bullying is being used as an excuse to revile someone.  It would be better if we tried to turn this into a positive discussion instead of an excuse to say mean things about someone.

For an attorney to carefully craft and write this letter is not "a mistake that violates social norms". That is an attempt by the attorney to use his skill with words to make somebody feel inadequate, unimportant, less than valuable.

Isn't that a textbook definition of bullying? 

Moreover, he goes on to stand by and expand his comments:

Mr. Krause was invited to be interviewed on WKBT-TV, a programming director said. Instead, he issued a statement, which was shared on the air. Thestatement concluded with Mr. Krause saying: “Considering Jennifer Livingston’s fortuitous position in the community, I hope she will finally take advantage of a rare and golden opportunity to influence the health and psychological well-being of Coulee region children by transforming herself for all of her viewers to see over the next year.”
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 04:31:26 PM by Cleargleam »