Author Topic: Handing it to a jerk on live TV  (Read 9132 times)

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Diane AKA Traska

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2012, 04:17:02 PM »
I'm going to chime in with a not-so-surprising response.  And that's if we don't take the bullies to task for what they say, we're tacitly endorsing them.
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Moray

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2012, 04:26:30 PM »
Calling someone's rude actions rude isn't spewing vitriol.

 
My point is that nobody deserves vitriol period.  Making a mistake that violates social norms is not an excuse for masses of people to say nasty things about you.  (Otherwise is it ok to bully people with autism?  They often accidentally say mean things.)  The appropriate response would be for everyone to agree that being heavy or thin is not a reflection of someone's character, and we should all be nice to each other.  This anti bullying is being used as an excuse to revile someone.  It would be better if we tried to turn this into a positive discussion instead of an excuse to say mean things about someone. 

Regarding the bolded: Please. Really? Are you equating this man's exchange of several emails (I think the article I read said 3 volleys) castigating this woman for daring to appear on television while fat is the same thing as my autistic nephew telling me my hair looks like crap? Furthermore, are you claiming that us calling it rude is now tantamount to engaging in bullying ourselves?

I know we do an awful lot of "What-if-ing" on this board, but you're comparing apples and orangutans.

Utah

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2012, 04:55:53 PM »
My point is that nobody deserves vitriol period.  Making a mistake that violates social norms is not an excuse for masses of people to say nasty things about you.  (Otherwise is it ok to bully people with autism?  They often accidentally say mean things.)  The appropriate response would be for everyone to agree that being heavy or thin is not a reflection of someone's character, and we should all be nice to each other.  This anti bullying is being used as an excuse to revile someone.  It would be better if we tried to turn this into a positive discussion instead of an excuse to say mean things about someone.

Well I have to ask did he "out" himself?  Because I only watched the clip in the OP which is apparently what aired on the news and the letter writer was not named.  So no "body" was receiving vitriol personally, everything was merely a response to a nameless faceless letter writer.  Whereas the original letter wasn't written as a general missive about all fat people, it was a personal attack on the newscaster.

Elisabunny

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2012, 05:05:58 PM »
My point is that nobody deserves vitriol period.  Making a mistake that violates social norms is not an excuse for masses of people to say nasty things about you.  (Otherwise is it ok to bully people with autism?  They often accidentally say mean things.)  The appropriate response would be for everyone to agree that being heavy or thin is not a reflection of someone's character, and we should all be nice to each other.  This anti bullying is being used as an excuse to revile someone.  It would be better if we tried to turn this into a positive discussion instead of an excuse to say mean things about someone.

For an attorney to carefully craft and write this letter is not "a mistake that violates social norms". That is an attempt by the attorney to use his skill with words to make somebody feel inadequate, unimportant, less than valuable.

Isn't that a textbook definition of bullying? 

Moreover, he goes on to stand by and expand his comments:

Mr. Krause was invited to be interviewed on WKBT-TV, a programming director said. Instead, he issued a statement, which was shared on the air. Thestatement concluded with Mr. Krause saying: “Considering Jennifer Livingston’s fortuitous position in the community, I hope she will finally take advantage of a rare and golden opportunity to influence the health and psychological well-being of Coulee region children by transforming herself for all of her viewers to see over the next year.”

He just doesn't get it, does he?  You can tell just by the way she carries herself that she is in good shape, other than the weight.  In fact, it sounds like she's in better shape than many people who are skinnier than she is.  She reminds me of my BIL, who used to bike absolutely everywhere, but was still chunky.  His cholesterol and blood pressure were great, tho. ;)

Actually, it sounds like she IS "taking advantage of a rare and golden opportunity to influence the health and psychological well-being of Coulee region children".  She's standing up to bullying and bigotry.  I hope she furthers this by vocally demonstrating that it is possible to be healthy and athletic even if you're not a single-digit size.
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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2012, 05:14:01 PM »
I would have slightly less disgust with the letter writer if he had addressed it to one of the hefty *male* anchors you see from time to time. However, oddly, he chose not to do that.

Even if one's weight is *entirely* one's choice, it is no one's responsibility or right to go around haranguing strangers. Without censure, this man, and others like him, will believe that he acted in a laudable manner.
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JoieGirl7

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2012, 05:33:30 PM »
I don't view the letter writer as a bully so much as a troll.
 
And he got what he wanted.  Attention.

Moray

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2012, 05:44:37 PM »
I don't view the letter writer as a bully so much as a troll.
 
And he got what he wanted.  Attention.

And his "victim" took his bullying/trolling/rudeness/whatever and made it into a powerful statement that reached a wide audience.
Utah

Jaelle

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2012, 05:50:37 PM »
People are saying some really mean things about the letter writer, but if you believe that people can control their weight and that being very heavy is worse than being normal weight, then he doesn't deserve this level of vitriol. 

Well, I for one don't believe that people (always) have (complete) control over their weight. Obesity is not exactly the "choice" the letter writer framed it as. I find it hard to believe that anyone who has to live in our society would consciously choose to be fat. But the myth of choice is the main reason prejudice toward fat people is accepted, even encouraged.

I also strongly disagree that "being very heavy is worse than being normal weight." No, it isn't "worse." It may put you at a higher risk for certain health problems, it may mean that fewer people consider you attractive, and it may make your life generally more difficult because of the associated stigma, but it doesn't make you worse in any objective sense. It doesn't make you worth less than anyone else; it doesn't make you unfit to be a role model; it doesn't disqualify you from having a successful career or from being seen in public.

So yes, I think the letter writer deserved to be called out. If we don't publicly confront people who spew bigotry, and publicly declare that it's wrong, how will we stop it?

Bexx27 said what I wanted to say. *applause*

In addition, the letter writer is seriously deluded if he thinks it's that simple. But a lot of people are. It's not all "Oh! You've brought me to my senses! I'm going to eat healthy and exercise and voila! I'll be thin!"  ::)

I do both. I'm not thin. So sue me.
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JoieGirl7

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2012, 09:10:23 PM »
I don't view the letter writer as a bully so much as a troll.
 
And he got what he wanted.  Attention.

And his "victim" took his bullying/trolling/rudeness/whatever and made it into a powerful statement that reached a wide audience.

As part of that audience, I don't see it as a powerful statement, I see it as feeding the troll.  All I thought was "wow, he really got to her."

Piratelvr1121

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2012, 10:19:35 PM »
Not to mention, thin doesn't always mean healthy.  I've known some skinny/ slender folks who have awful diets with not much to say for the health of what they eat. And then there are ones with eating disorders and they're definitely not healthy.  So I don't agree that thin automatically means healthy.

The letter writer is a nasty piece of work, and I like how she handled it. I saw it last night because Ellen tweeted it.  I think there's enough focus on looks that one really ought to focus more on what a person contributes to society and it sounds like this woman does contribute and it's not like she's not trying to keep herself healthy, if she runs as much as she does and eats well.  Who cares if she's not thin. I think she's beautiful, inside and out. :)
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Sharnita

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2012, 11:13:24 PM »
I think people are way too invested in bullying being a repeated act.  That is a definition, not the definition. 

One would think that as a lawyer he would have an obligation to act as a role model to young children as far as rushing to judgement about other people, especially without being presented with all the facts.

Ereine

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2012, 12:52:22 AM »
I don't view the letter writer as a bully so much as a troll.
 
And he got what he wanted.  Attention.

I've seen sort of similar opinions expressed elsewhere and even on this forum and I seriously doubt that they're seeking attention. It's easy to say that and that you should just ignore bullies but as a "role model" I think that it's great that she spoke out. Because ignoring bullying doesn't help at all, it just isolates the victim. You may think that talking about it makes her weak (or so I interpreted your statement that he really got to her, I'm sorry if I'm mistaken) but I think that taking insults in silence isn't particularly strong either.

baglady

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2012, 01:08:02 AM »
I'm another who doesn't think of this guy as a bully. Bullies pick on those they perceive as weaker than they are, who can't or won't fight back. Nothing weak about Jennifer -- she *did* fight back. Very publicly. The term "bully pulpit" comes to mind with its totally different meaning for the B word.

It really gets my back up that he called her a bad role model. She's the best kind of role model -- a woman who is fit and healthy and comfortable in a body that isn't a toothpick with b00bs. If there were more women like her on television, there'd probably be a lot fewer girls and young women killing themselves (literally and figuratively) to achieve an ideal their bone structure, metabolism or genes will never let them reach.
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starry diadem

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2012, 01:52:56 AM »
I think people are way too invested in bullying being a repeated act.  That is a definition, not the definition. 
{rest snipped}

POD POD PODDITY POD

Thank you!   I was about to chime in and ask how many times something has to happen before it can be 'counted' as bullying.  Would two incidents do it?  Three?  Is there a threshold of abuse people are expected to tolerate before they can claim that they're being bullied?  Are people seriously told that "Sorry, you can't count that as bullying because it only happened to you once and the fact that someone more 'powerful' (for whatever definition of power you use) than you hurt/castigated/threatened/reviled/abused you, doesn't matter.  You're so out of luck.  Let them do it again and then we might listen."

There may be a pattern of bullying.  It may happen only once.  We shouldn't tolerate it at all.



« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 01:54:51 AM by starry diadem »
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PeterM

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Re: Handing it to a bully on live TV
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2012, 02:08:45 AM »
And his "victim" took his bullying/trolling/rudeness/whatever and made it into a powerful statement that reached a wide audience.

As part of that audience, I don't see it as a powerful statement, I see it as feeding the troll. 

Going by the reactions I've seen here and several other places, you appear to be in the distinct minority on that. Which isn't to say you're wrong, of course, but it also doesn't mean you're right.

Quote
All I thought was "wow, he really got to her."

This I agree with, but I think she handled it admirably. Would it be better if she just didn't care what he said? Sure, but nobody's perfect. So this imperfect person took feelings she'd be better off not feeling and did something I and many, many other people think is positive.

If we take it as a given that the letter writer "got to her," how do you think she could have handled it better?