Author Topic: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?  (Read 10054 times)

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Dindrane

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2012, 04:33:02 PM »
With regard to the playpen, a lot of them have a sort of bassinet and/or diaper changing station as part of what is included, and they also frequently have a bottom that can be raised about halfway up while the child is an infant. So while the playpen wouldn't be necessary to contain the child until he/she is mobile, it likely would be very useful as an auxiliary crib/changing table right from day one. My brother and SIL had a playpen when my niece was born, and they set it up in the living room so they wouldn't always have to go upstairs to the main crib/changing table for naps and diapers. It helped them enormously in the first few weeks to have one set-up downstairs and one upstairs, because it meant there was always something close by.

Good point, but again, the child is not due until December. That leaves 2 whole months to have this item bought. It doesn't need to be bought this weekend.

It does change the scope of over-anxiety, though. Getting anxious to buy a relatively large item you will need in roughly two months is different than getting anxious to buy a relatively large item you will need in half a year or more. Given that the OP and most of this thread agrees that more than week to schedule a shopping trip is necessary under these circumstances, two months really is not that far in advance.

Since the plan was to determine what they want with the in-laws in attendance, then have the in-laws buy it, all while leaving enough time for SIL to arrange alternative childcare because the only shopping day that falls outside everyone's work hours is Saturday, two months sounds like barely enough time to manage it all. That is especially true when you remember that the OP's due date is two months away, and their new baby could make an appearance sooner than that.


O'Dell

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2012, 05:27:09 PM »
Your husband is not going to be able to change his parents or his entitled sister.

I think what your husband is starting to realize is, "Where exactly will his child fit into his parent's world when they currently revolve their world around his nephew and the demands of his mother?". 

As for the playpen, couldn't you look them up online and send the pic of your chosen one to his parents and when they can go out and buy it, they are able to do so?   I think that this situation is being made more difficult than it needs to be.

I agree...especially with the bolded.

And I think SIL is massively rude to kick up a fuss when her parents/babysitters go on vacation. They may have agreed to babysit for free on Saturdays, but that doesn't mean that they can't take off a Saturday for themselves occasionally. SIL should accept that gracefully. I can see how that gives the impression that SIL takes advantage...did she act that way to get them to agree to babysit in the first place? Makes one wonder.
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secretrebel

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2012, 08:48:03 AM »

ps: the reason I gave too much background is because I didn't know anymore either what was relevant or not. Maybe it's the 'she made this choice to be a single parent and lets others pay the 'price' for it' vibe I got from DH. But as noted above - the help she gets was a deal that all involved people agreed with.


So her having herself artificially inseminated is her making a choice to be a single parent and letting "others" like her parents pay the price?  Yeah your husband needs to take a huge step back.


But i am glad you are realizing this and can help your husband in this.  Good luck!

I think it was more that she deliberately chose to have a child but did so with the expectation and need of help from others.  (I don't necessarily agree that this is bad since the grandparents seem willing to help out & I come from a family helps family background) but I think her husband seems to think that his parents are being imposed upon rather than happy to help out.

Nyachan - yeah that is exactly how he feels. However, I don't agree with that view. I am a strong fan of personal responsibility and standing by your choices. If his parents really don't want to help anymore, I'm sure that they'll invent a new way to say no.

I think DH needs to untangle this particular set of feelings.

What if SIL was married or partnered and still wanted her child to spend saturdays with grandparents, would he then feel "but she has a partner, she doesn't need childcare?"
What is SIL was divorced, would he assess whether the divorce was her fault before deciding whether she is entitled to childcare?
What is SIL was widowed? Is that the only circumstance in which he'd think it fair for her to ask for childcare help?

SIL does sound like a bit of a pain re the vacation but your DH really isn't being fair to characterise her as "single by choice" so undeserving of support.

GrammarNerd

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2012, 10:25:17 AM »
We had the same issue with my ILs when we had our first child.  They babysat for the other grandchild three days a week, and the days changed each week.  By the end of the first year, I can't tell you how sick I was of hearing that they could come and visit DS, but always with the caveat of if they didn't have to watch the other grandchild.  Hearing it like that was like a slap in the face every single time that our kid was second best in their eyes, and first consideration always belonged to the other grandchild. 

Pretty much everything revolved around the first grandchild, and just because they babysat her, it seemed like she (they) got first dibs on everything and DS (and us) were the afterthoughts. And yes, to me, SIL always acted very entitled about her parents' time.  She had no backup plan for anyone else to watch her child.  One time we asked her a month in advance if she could use her backup for one day, so ILS could watch DS when we knew our daycare would be closed.  DH (and I) viewed it like....ILs may babysit for their grandchild, and she may pay them, but there are TWO grandchildren.  Do we not have the right to ask for the same type of arrangement once in a while (NOT on a regular basis)?  If it helps, we were going to pay them too so they didn't lose any money.  She agreed, and DH thought it was settled, and we saw them again a week beforehand and I told him to make sure.  He was pretty surprised when she went absolutely ballistic when he brought it up again and if everything was settled for that day!  Of course, she hadn't done a darn thing about securing a backup for that one day despite a polite and reasonable request with a month's notice.  She made it seem like she would, but then she just never did, which is why she went nuts when DH brought it up again.  How DARE anyone challenge what she viewed as her exclusive right to her parents' time!

See, the lines were blurred b/c of the grandparent thing.  DH was just as much of their child as his sister, and yes, we felt we deserved some of the same considerations.  Not equal time, but something fair.  And we didn't feel that giving us 1 day with a month's notice was unfair (even though SIL did, obviously).  And SIL took advantage in other ways, like if we would visit ILS for the weekend, SIL would drop off her child and then go run errands.  Hello?  Our kid gets to see his GPs maybe once a month.  Why did she have to infringe on that little bit of time that my kid had with his GPs?  And no, she wasn't paying ILs for those times, so they weren't 'working'.  I never bought the 'we want to visit with you,' because they'd do the 'dump and run' with the kid, or they'd sit there and not talk.  That's not visiting, that's....almost like marking your territory.

If it bothers your DH as much as it appears to (and like I said, I TOTALLY get that), then I'd advise your DH to bring it up to them NOW.  They have 6 years of entitlement and 6 years of having their world revolve around one grandchild that they have to undo.  And I think perhaps it would be a good thing to get some of that out of the way earlier rather than later.  Give them a heads up that you're already starting to feel favoritism, and the baby isn't even here yet.  Ask them how they're going to handle it when the baby does get here.  Make them aware that you don't want to feel like you have to have an appointment with them or jump through hoops for them to see and spend some time with their OTHER grandchild.  And also stress that you want some time with just them.  SIL and her son get that, so you want to make sure that your child has alone/exclusive time with his grandparents too, so they can get to know him/her and he/she can get to know them.  That is NOT unreasonable.  And no, the cousins don't need to spend time together.  They're 6 years apart, and yours is a baby.  Grandparent time is much more precious right now.

And if SIL keeps showing up when you're there, or if MIL/FIL won't stop trying to include her in your plans/invite her or GS over when you're there, then employ the tactic I used once (worked like a charm): "Oh, if you'd rather visit with SIL now, then I guess we'll just go.  We'll make plans another time." And then leave.  There will probably be the protestations that SIL wants to see you too, and then you can just say that you were looking forward to some time with ILS, and let's be honest: SIL doesn't seem to enjoy your company very much anyway.  (I was blunt like that with MIL once and she sputtered, but it worked.)  SIL can call you and set up a visit if she wants to see you that badly.  But for now, you'll just reschedule your visit for when they don't have any other committments with SIL.  Yes, your contact may decrease for a bit, and maybe it will hurt.  But if his parents care about seeing you, then they can make it work.  And you won't have to put up with SIL or the nephew, so that's a plus.

Sorry for the book; this just brought back a lot of unpleasant memories.

fountainof

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2012, 01:06:44 PM »
I think when grandparents agree to be a childcare provider it is a job and it comes with responsibilities.  For this reason I would never use a grandparent as formal childcare ever as it is hard to give your parents/ILs a contract to sign.

If I had a formal arrangement with my parents to provide childcare I would not be happy to be expected to get alternate care.  If my parent agreed to provide a contract of regular childcare on Saturday, he/she has an employment contract for that day and isn't available unless it is something my child can attend.  It isn't because of loving one kid more than the other or loving a grandkid more, it is a formal employment contract that has been previously arranged.  I think it is disrespectful to expect a prior arrangement to change because another child was born.  If the contract needs to be renegotiated the grandparent must do that and provide notice similar to what you would a licensed childcare facility - 2 weeks.

Because I am as formal as the above and could never have the risk of a grandparent saying, sorry fountainof we are going away next week, or we want to spend next Saturday with other grandchild find alternate care I would never use a relative for childcare, except as oneoff babysitting here and there, nothing regular.

In the OPs case, a reasonable solution of one GP going to shop was offered and I think it is a good solution overall.  Sometimes people get things because they were their first.  In this case, the SIL already arranges childcare for Saturdays so it is something that must be factored in.

Roe

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2012, 01:23:06 PM »
Not sure if this has been mentioned but why can't you pick out the playpen online?  The grandparents can order it and have it shipped directly to you.

But from the sounds of it, it really doesn't have much to do with a playpen, does it?  After all, you won't need this item for months.  Your DH has issues with his sister that go beyond a playpen.

TurtleDove

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2012, 01:23:30 PM »
Sometimes people get things because they were their first.  In this case, the SIL already arranges childcare for Saturdays so it is something that must be factored in.

This.  I still don't see that the grandparents have indicated in any way that the 6 year old grandchild will be favored over the yet to be born one.  I think the DH will either have to get over his issues with SIL and allow the yet to be born child to be cared for along with/spend time with his or her cousin or will have to accept that Saturdays his parents have agreed to watch his nephew.  This is not a slight to DH or to the yet to be born child.

girlysprite

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2012, 02:17:41 PM »
Sometimes people get things because they were their first.  In this case, the SIL already arranges childcare for Saturdays so it is something that must be factored in.

This.  I still don't see that the grandparents have indicated in any way that the 6 year old grandchild will be favored over the yet to be born one.  I think the DH will either have to get over his issues with SIL and allow the yet to be born child to be cared for along with/spend time with his or her cousin or will have to accept that Saturdays his parents have agreed to watch his nephew.  This is not a slight to DH or to the yet to be born child.

Yeah, I think it's pretty much this. SIL has a history of bad behavior and entitlement so it't easy to cast her into the role of ms. entitlement and the parents into the role of 'people being walked over by mean sil'. But I just think it doesn't work like that - I think MIL does enjoy watching over her grandson, and she takes the responsibility seriously.

As for the playpen, we do intend to use it quite early on, as a safe place where the baby can lie in the living room. We have two cats that sometimes run around the room, so I wouldn't feel safe leaving my baby 'in the open' when I can't hold it for a few minutes. Having the playpen set up before the baby is born would be even better, but option - it allows me to train the cats not to jump in it. (ps; cats are not mean or scratchy or afraid of little children, but they can be boisterous when playing with each other)

HermioneGranger

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2012, 02:23:21 PM »
With regard to the playpen, a lot of them have a sort of bassinet and/or diaper changing station as part of what is included, and they also frequently have a bottom that can be raised about halfway up while the child is an infant. So while the playpen wouldn't be necessary to contain the child until he/she is mobile, it likely would be very useful as an auxiliary crib/changing table right from day one. My brother and SIL had a playpen when my niece was born, and they set it up in the living room so they wouldn't always have to go upstairs to the main crib/changing table for naps and diapers. It helped them enormously in the first few weeks to have one set-up downstairs and one upstairs, because it meant there was always something close by.

Good point, but again, the child is not due until December. That leaves 2 whole months to have this item bought. It doesn't need to be bought this weekend.

It does change the scope of over-anxiety, though. Getting anxious to buy a relatively large item you will need in roughly two months is different than getting anxious to buy a relatively large item you will need in half a year or more. Given that the OP and most of this thread agrees that more than week to schedule a shopping trip is necessary under these circumstances, two months really is not that far in advance.

Since the plan was to determine what they want with the in-laws in attendance, then have the in-laws buy it, all while leaving enough time for SIL to arrange alternative childcare because the only shopping day that falls outside everyone's work hours is Saturday, two months sounds like barely enough time to manage it all. That is especially true when you remember that the OP's due date is two months away, and their new baby could make an appearance sooner than that.

Not to mention that many women, myself included, could barely walk the last month of pregnancy, much less take extended shopping trips. 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 02:26:12 PM by HermioneGranger »

HermioneGranger

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2012, 02:29:42 PM »
Your husband is not going to be able to change his parents or his entitled sister.

I think what your husband is starting to realize is, "Where exactly will his child fit into his parent's world when they currently revolve their world around his nephew and the demands of his mother?". 

As for the playpen, couldn't you look them up online and send the pic of your chosen one to his parents and when they can go out and buy it, they are able to do so?   I think that this situation is being made more difficult than it needs to be.

I agree...especially with the bolded.

And I think SIL is massively rude to kick up a fuss when her parents/babysitters go on vacation. They may have agreed to babysit for free on Saturdays, but that doesn't mean that they can't take off a Saturday for themselves occasionally. SIL should accept that gracefully. I can see how that gives the impression that SIL takes advantage...did she act that way to get them to agree to babysit in the first place? Makes one wonder.

Yep.  My daughter is second (grand)child, second best to my parents, just like I was.  My nephew got far far more from day 1 from parents than my daughter has or ever will.  It hurts, but we'll deal with it.  She has two parents that love her and can afford the best for her (within reason), which is more than I can say for my nephew. 

TurtleDove

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2012, 02:42:21 PM »

Not to mention that many women, myself included, could barely walk the last month of pregnancy, much less take extended shopping trips.
Off topic, but why couldn't you walk?  I was hitting up the gym up until the day I was induced! I am so glad I was fully mobile because being pregnant is not comfy.

QueenfaninCA

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2012, 02:43:04 PM »
And if SIL keeps showing up when you're there, or if MIL/FIL won't stop trying to include her in your plans/invite her or GS over when you're there, then employ the tactic I used once (worked like a charm): "Oh, if you'd rather visit with SIL now, then I guess we'll just go.  We'll make plans another time." And then leave.  There will probably be the protestations that SIL wants to see you too, and then you can just say that you were looking forward to some time with ILS, and let's be honest: SIL doesn't seem to enjoy your company very much anyway.  (I was blunt like that with MIL once and she sputtered, but it worked.)  SIL can call you and set up a visit if she wants to see you that badly.  But for now, you'll just reschedule your visit for when they don't have any other committments with SIL.  Yes, your contact may decrease for a bit, and maybe it will hurt.  But if his parents care about seeing you, then they can make it work.  And you won't have to put up with SIL or the nephew, so that's a plus.

I'm actually surprised that they didn't do something like that ages ago instead of being miserable that SIL  always intrudes on DH's time with his parents.

PS: There is no rule in the universe that grandchildren need regular contact with their grandparents to grow up into normal human beings. If the grandparents make contact difficult I'd just decide it's their loss.

HermioneGranger

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2012, 02:57:44 PM »

Not to mention that many women, myself included, could barely walk the last month of pregnancy, much less take extended shopping trips.
Off topic, but why couldn't you walk?  I was hitting up the gym up until the day I was induced! I am so glad I was fully mobile because being pregnant is not comfy.

I could physically only go to work, doctor's appointments, and home again.  By the last week, I could barely walk up a flight of stairs.  I should have been put on partial (or full) bedrest, but my doctor was none too sympathetic and kept dismissing my complaints. 

Yvaine

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2012, 03:02:43 PM »

Not to mention that many women, myself included, could barely walk the last month of pregnancy, much less take extended shopping trips.
Off topic, but why couldn't you walk?  I was hitting up the gym up until the day I was induced! I am so glad I was fully mobile because being pregnant is not comfy.

Some women are on bed rest or have other issues with complications. I'm glad your pregnancy was so impeccably smooth.

Moray

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Re: Appointment with parents; what is reasonable?
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2012, 03:11:22 PM »

Not to mention that many women, myself included, could barely walk the last month of pregnancy, much less take extended shopping trips.
Off topic, but why couldn't you walk?  I was hitting up the gym up until the day I was induced! I am so glad I was fully mobile because being pregnant is not comfy.

Some women are on bed rest or have other issues with complications. I'm glad your pregnancy was so impeccably smooth.

Not to mention that even without complications, by the very end many women are in so much discomfort that wandering around a store, let alone hitting the gym, is entirely out of the question.
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