Author Topic: I do not accept your endorsement!  (Read 10500 times)

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AngelBarchild

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2012, 08:15:17 PM »
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Not everything has a deeper meaning.

kareng57

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2012, 10:43:56 PM »
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Not everything has a deeper meaning.


Thank you!  Maybe something like "wow, you sure changed that tire fast!" means exactly that - you changed that tire very quickly.  Not because you're a woman, or because you're 5 feet tall....just, you changed that tire fast.

If we're talking about compliments from complete strangers - why not just take them at face value, and say Thank You, rather than assuming that there's a hidden agenda, and therefore replying with complete silence or an icy glare?  I do understand that if they're from people that we see fairly regularly - such as neighbours or extended family members - perhaps there's more of a message, if there's indeed enough background to support it.  But from seemingly-nice strangers who you (generic) will probably never see again - why expend the mental energy to search for a hidden meaning?

Rohanna

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2012, 11:12:25 PM »
You can't see the difference between "wow, you changed that tire fast" and "wow YOU can change a tire?", because I sure can. I'd say 75% of this board is irrelavent if people are supposed to ignore tone, body language, innuendo and follow the "cigar is just a cigar" rule on every statement and action. I would not take the the statement you made up to be insulting or condecending, but I would take the one I actually wrote as such.
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. ~ Jack Layton.

Onyx_TKD

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2012, 11:18:46 PM »
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Not everything has a deeper meaning.


Thank you!  Maybe something like "wow, you sure changed that tire fast!" means exactly that - you changed that tire very quickly.  Not because you're a woman, or because you're 5 feet tall....just, you changed that tire fast.

If we're talking about compliments from complete strangers - why not just take them at face value, and say Thank You, rather than assuming that there's a hidden agenda, and therefore replying with complete silence or an icy glare?  I do understand that if they're from people that we see fairly regularly - such as neighbours or extended family members - perhaps there's more of a message, if there's indeed enough background to support it.  But from seemingly-nice strangers who you (generic) will probably never see again - why expend the mental energy to search for a hidden meaning?

To me, a comment like
Sometimes it's a "Thank goodness you're not one of those parents!," said with a tone of disgust directed at "those" people.
does not "seem nice." There's no mental energy expended on finding hidden meanings--it simply does not come across as nice to me. From my perspective, "face value" is a judgmental statement about "those parents," and finding the good intentions in that statement is what involves looking for the hidden meaning. Obviously, others will interpret it differently, and the intentions may very well be good. However, I'm not inclined to reward unsolicited comments that I find objectionable.

Sharnita

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2012, 11:25:47 PM »
Or maybe "You brought the right brand of tires" which strikes me as a bit different as well and is also a bit risky because they might have a different brand on their other car.

baglady

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #65 on: October 08, 2012, 12:34:42 AM »
Why not just compliment the child directly? This gives them both the credit they deserve -- the parent for teaching the child to behave properly, and the kid for doing it.
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kareng57

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2012, 12:54:13 AM »
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Not everything has a deeper meaning.


Thank you!  Maybe something like "wow, you sure changed that tire fast!" means exactly that - you changed that tire very quickly.  Not because you're a woman, or because you're 5 feet tall....just, you changed that tire fast.

If we're talking about compliments from complete strangers - why not just take them at face value, and say Thank You, rather than assuming that there's a hidden agenda, and therefore replying with complete silence or an icy glare?  I do understand that if they're from people that we see fairly regularly - such as neighbours or extended family members - perhaps there's more of a message, if there's indeed enough background to support it.  But from seemingly-nice strangers who you (generic) will probably never see again - why expend the mental energy to search for a hidden meaning?

To me, a comment like
Sometimes it's a "Thank goodness you're not one of those parents!," said with a tone of disgust directed at "those" people.
does not "seem nice." There's no mental energy expended on finding hidden meanings--it simply does not come across as nice to me. From my perspective, "face value" is a judgmental statement about "those parents," and finding the good intentions in that statement is what involves looking for the hidden meaning. Obviously, others will interpret it differently, and the intentions may very well be good. However, I'm not inclined to reward unsolicited comments that I find objectionable.


Fair enough.  I already said that I was excluding comments such as "it's good that you're not one of those parents", so I don't really understand the need to assert this, once again.

I was referring to comments such as "nice to see such well behaved kids".  But I guess that I had better refrain, from now on, due to the comments on this thread.

kareng57

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #67 on: October 08, 2012, 01:01:32 AM »
You can't see the difference between "wow, you changed that tire fast" and "wow YOU can change a tire?", because I sure can. I'd say 75% of this board is irrelavent if people are supposed to ignore tone, body language, innuendo and follow the "cigar is just a cigar" rule on every statement and action. I would not take the the statement you made up to be insulting or condecending, but I would take the one I actually wrote as such.


Where did I say that I could not see the difference between that two kinds of comments???  If anyone is being condescending  in their assumption - it's you.

lollylegs

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2012, 01:03:14 AM »
I have found it safest to simply not speak to parents and children I do not know.  Parents are far too over sensitive these days and anything I say or do will do snapped at or blown all out of proportion. 

This thread further proves that I am doing the smart thing.

That's not very fair.  I agree with Rohanna, I think everyone was having a pleasant discussion about the OP and this bitter, 'Fine, I won't say anything to parents ever because all they'll do is yell at me,' really drags the tone down.

And I disagree with you. Your "pleasant discussion" consisted of accusing us (those who give unsolicited compliments) of some very nasty motivations. Accusations without one shred of evidence.

Fair call. I read it as an interesting conversation about how different words and phrases can have different meaning for different people, but I can understand why someone else might have a different interpretation. However, I do object to the bolded ('Parents are far too sensitive') and I think that the sentiment could have been expressed in a better manner.

Rohanna

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2012, 01:07:49 AM »
If you can see the difference, then why did you change what I said to argue the point- it totally changes the meaning of what I posted, making my arguement weaker and yours stronger.

I think pretty much everyone is this thread is saying that, Kareng57. I know have repeatedly, and I just read the entire thread and found most people saying the same thing- it's okay on the most part to make a general comment about good behaviour, but it's not okay to attach a judgement on other people or a value judgement to it. I don't think most people are asking that no one compliments them at all- just that they don't appreciate back-handed, passive-aggressive, or condecending statements masked as one. If someone can't appreciate the difference between the statements:

"Your children are well behaved" and "Your children are well behaved, thank goodness you aren't one of *those* parents"

then perhaps it is in fact best they refrain from talking to strangers.

It is, to use a non-child analogy since some people on this board (and elsewhere) get very hung-up on that, the difference between saying


"I like your shirt, it's pretty" and "I like your shirt, thank goodness you don't wear low cut shirts like *those* girls", or

"I love your new bike, it's very eco-friendly" and "I love your new bike, thank goodness you don't drive to work like *some* people".



See the difference? If you do- why is it okay to talk like that about parenting? If I started saying I wouldn't talk to any women because I refused to learn the difference between complimenting a shirt and insulting other peoples morals, I'm fairly certain I'd be called ridiculous. What if the person I talked to sometimes *does* like to show off a little cleavage? Pretty easy to tell I've probably offended her now, right? Well what if sometimes, when they're tired, that parent's kids don't behave as well... is she now one of "those" parents? What if her sister is one of "those" parents.

It's better to avoid value-judgement statements around people you don't know well, and if you use them, I don't think getting huffy about people taking even mild offense to it is very fair.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 01:11:32 AM by Rohanna »
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. ~ Jack Layton.

Onyx_TKD

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #70 on: October 08, 2012, 02:25:48 AM »
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Not everything has a deeper meaning.


Thank you!  Maybe something like "wow, you sure changed that tire fast!" means exactly that - you changed that tire very quickly.  Not because you're a woman, or because you're 5 feet tall....just, you changed that tire fast.

If we're talking about compliments from complete strangers - why not just take them at face value, and say Thank You, rather than assuming that there's a hidden agenda, and therefore replying with complete silence or an icy glare?  I do understand that if they're from people that we see fairly regularly - such as neighbours or extended family members - perhaps there's more of a message, if there's indeed enough background to support it.  But from seemingly-nice strangers who you (generic) will probably never see again - why expend the mental energy to search for a hidden meaning?

To me, a comment like
Sometimes it's a "Thank goodness you're not one of those parents!," said with a tone of disgust directed at "those" people.
does not "seem nice." There's no mental energy expended on finding hidden meanings--it simply does not come across as nice to me. From my perspective, "face value" is a judgmental statement about "those parents," and finding the good intentions in that statement is what involves looking for the hidden meaning. Obviously, others will interpret it differently, and the intentions may very well be good. However, I'm not inclined to reward unsolicited comments that I find objectionable.


Fair enough.  I already said that I was excluding comments such as "it's good that you're not one of those parents", so I don't really understand the need to assert this, once again.

I was referring to comments such as "nice to see such well behaved kids".  But I guess that I had better refrain, from now on, due to the comments on this thread.

OK, let me rephrase a bit. First, I didn't see you specifying that you were excluding that category of comments; I must have missed that in one of your previous posts. I chose that particular example because it was the more extreme case to illustrate my point. I'll try to clarify what I meant.

Your post implied to me that you thought negative reactions to various "compliments" listed in the thread were the result of looking for "hidden agendas." IOW, that people were actually making an effort to nit-pick and seek out the worst in compliments they receive. What I am trying to explain is that there is no such effort on my part--I object to certain "compliments" because I cannot imagine any tone in which they would come across to me as genuinely nice compliments. It's possible that someone could say them in a tone that would come across as genuine and innocent, rather than judgmental or arrogant, but I honestly cannot imagine such a delivery no matter how hard I try.

When I try to picture someone saying these things, the comments about "those parents" come across as nasty and judgmental to me, while the comments that "you're doing it correctly" seem arrogant and presumptuous. Maybe someone can say them in a tone that gives a different vibe, but I can't picture it. I have no objection whatsoever to comments like "Your kids are so well-behaved" because those "sound" truly complimentary to me without the unpleasant undertones. Someone else might have a negative reaction to it, but I don't recall anyone on this thread objecting to compliments on kids' good behavior, only comments on parenting style.

My point was that I am not trying to see the worst in these comments; in fact I am searching for the "niceness" that you and other PPs on this thread see in these comments. I simply don't see it.

ETA: The fact that I and others dislike these comments doesn't mean that you can't make them. Some people may really appreciate it; others won't. However, IMO no one has an obligation to thank someone for a "compliment" they find offensive or objectionable. If you make an unsolicited compliment and it's met with complete silence or an icy glare, that's part of the risk of making unsolicited comments about strangers. If you get such responses a lot, it might be time to rethink your complimenting habits.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 02:34:12 AM by Onyx_TKD »

Iris

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #71 on: October 08, 2012, 03:18:27 AM »
So now it's wrong to give someone a compliment?  Guess we're supposed to go through life and not make a single sound to anyone. No wonder so many people feel lonely and disconnected from others.

I have found it safest to simply not speak to parents and children I do not know.  Parents are far too over sensitive these days and anything I say or do will do snapped at or blown all out of proportion. 

This thread further proves that I am doing the smart thing.

To be safe I'll do the same thing from now on.
Apparently I should be doing the same.

Why do people in these threads always say "Oh, parents don't like interferance/passive-aggressive behaviour/condecension? I guess I just should talk to them EVER then". When the exact same behaviour comes from a mother-in-law, co-worker, or boyfriend we don't tend to blame the victim. How about we try to be nicer to everyone?

How is "You're doing an excellent job at parenting" condescending, PA, or interfering? It's a compliment. A simple compliment. It's a serious stretch or rather, a deliberate twist of meaning (that reveals more about the recipient's world view than the intent of the speaker) to view that as anything other than a simple compliment.

What does the compliment "You are doing an excellent job at parenting" have to do with anything? This thread is about a specific remark - "You are doing the correct thing". I genuinely don't understand how so many people have gone from "I think saying 'You are doing the correct thing' is patronising" to "Don't ever compliment me on my parenting, ever." I feel as though there are two parallel threads that have somehow been mixed up.

I *often* compliment people on their parenting but I have never ever once worded it as "You are doing the correct thing." Similarly I can't imagine saying "That is the correct outfit" or "You have the correct haircut" or "You changed that tyre correctly" or "You performed that [work task] correctly". All of those IMO would be patronising ways to phrase a compliment and only suitable if you were training the person in outfits/haircuts/tyre changing/work task and hence it was your role to grade their performance. It's absolutely fine to disagree with me on that as many obviously do, but I don't think its reasonable to go from that to "Well obviously people with haircuts are too sensitive and I'll never compliment anyone on their haircut ever again" simply because I express a dislike of that form of words.
"Can't do anything with children, can you?" the woman said.

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AngelBarchild

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #72 on: October 08, 2012, 04:51:37 AM »
So now it's wrong to give someone a compliment?  Guess we're supposed to go through life and not make a single sound to anyone. No wonder so many people feel lonely and disconnected from others.

I have found it safest to simply not speak to parents and children I do not know.  Parents are far too over sensitive these days and anything I say or do will do snapped at or blown all out of proportion. 

This thread further proves that I am doing the smart thing.

To be safe I'll do the same thing from now on.
Apparently I should be doing the same.

Why do people in these threads always say "Oh, parents don't like interferance/passive-aggressive behaviour/condecension? I guess I just should talk to them EVER then". When the exact same behaviour comes from a mother-in-law, co-worker, or boyfriend we don't tend to blame the victim. How about we try to be nicer to everyone?

How is "You're doing an excellent job at parenting" condescending, PA, or interfering? It's a compliment. A simple compliment. It's a serious stretch or rather, a deliberate twist of meaning (that reveals more about the recipient's world view than the intent of the speaker) to view that as anything other than a simple compliment.

What does the compliment "You are doing an excellent job at parenting" have to do with anything? This thread is about a specific remark - "You are doing the correct thing". I genuinely don't understand how so many people have gone from "I think saying 'You are doing the correct thing' is patronising" to "Don't ever compliment me on my parenting, ever." I feel as though there are two parallel threads that have somehow been mixed up.

I *often* compliment people on their parenting but I have never ever once worded it as "You are doing the correct thing." Similarly I can't imagine saying "That is the correct outfit" or "You have the correct haircut" or "You changed that tyre correctly" or "You performed that [work task] correctly". All of those IMO would be patronising ways to phrase a compliment and only suitable if you were training the person in outfits/haircuts/tyre changing/work task and hence it was your role to grade their performance. It's absolutely fine to disagree with me on that as many obviously do, but I don't think its reasonable to go from that to "Well obviously people with haircuts are too sensitive and I'll never compliment anyone on their haircut ever again" simply because I express a dislike of that form of words.

It's because the op made the statement " I think it's pretty rude to comment on parenting, even if it's positive.  Am I being hyper-sensitive? " That is basically, don't compliment me on my parenting ever.

Iris

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #73 on: October 08, 2012, 05:56:02 AM »
So now it's wrong to give someone a compliment?  Guess we're supposed to go through life and not make a single sound to anyone. No wonder so many people feel lonely and disconnected from others.

I have found it safest to simply not speak to parents and children I do not know.  Parents are far too over sensitive these days and anything I say or do will do snapped at or blown all out of proportion. 

This thread further proves that I am doing the smart thing.

To be safe I'll do the same thing from now on.
Apparently I should be doing the same.

Why do people in these threads always say "Oh, parents don't like interferance/passive-aggressive behaviour/condecension? I guess I just should talk to them EVER then". When the exact same behaviour comes from a mother-in-law, co-worker, or boyfriend we don't tend to blame the victim. How about we try to be nicer to everyone?

How is "You're doing an excellent job at parenting" condescending, PA, or interfering? It's a compliment. A simple compliment. It's a serious stretch or rather, a deliberate twist of meaning (that reveals more about the recipient's world view than the intent of the speaker) to view that as anything other than a simple compliment.

What does the compliment "You are doing an excellent job at parenting" have to do with anything? This thread is about a specific remark - "You are doing the correct thing". I genuinely don't understand how so many people have gone from "I think saying 'You are doing the correct thing' is patronising" to "Don't ever compliment me on my parenting, ever." I feel as though there are two parallel threads that have somehow been mixed up.

I *often* compliment people on their parenting but I have never ever once worded it as "You are doing the correct thing." Similarly I can't imagine saying "That is the correct outfit" or "You have the correct haircut" or "You changed that tyre correctly" or "You performed that [work task] correctly". All of those IMO would be patronising ways to phrase a compliment and only suitable if you were training the person in outfits/haircuts/tyre changing/work task and hence it was your role to grade their performance. It's absolutely fine to disagree with me on that as many obviously do, but I don't think its reasonable to go from that to "Well obviously people with haircuts are too sensitive and I'll never compliment anyone on their haircut ever again" simply because I express a dislike of that form of words.

It's because the op made the statement " I think it's pretty rude to comment on parenting, even if it's positive.  Am I being hyper-sensitive? " That is basically, don't compliment me on my parenting ever.

Ah, I see. I AM reading two parallel threads :) I suspect most people who are disagreeing are focusing on two different things just like we were.
"Can't do anything with children, can you?" the woman said.

Poirot thought you could, but forebore to say so.

bonyk

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Re: I do not accept your endorsement!
« Reply #74 on: October 08, 2012, 08:12:02 AM »
It's because the op made the statement " I think it's pretty rude to comment on parenting, even if it's positive.  Am I being hyper-sensitive? " That is basically, don't compliment me on my parenting ever.

You know what, I did say this, and it was a very poor choice of words on my part.  I honestly didn't realize I'd said it until several posters quoted me saying it, and even then I was surprised to see it in my OP.  Sorry, everybody.   :-[

Let me clarify:  I think it's rude to make a comment judging if someone else's parenting is proper or improper, even if you believe it's proper.