Author Topic: older kids shoving younger ones.  (Read 4394 times)

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kherbert05

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Re: older kids shoving younger ones.
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2012, 02:13:13 PM »
The only thing you could have done is demand that the staff watch the video and throw them out.  However, I'm not sure if I would have done that if Niece got over what happened.

I think what you said to the thug was fine.  I would have hard time remain that civil.

I don't know if I'd let this be the deciding factor in whether or not I'd put my foot down. A bully is a bully and he should face consequences for assaulting her.

I agree.  Also, it is not alway easily apparent if a kid is "over" an incident.  Some kids hide their reaction as a coping mechanism.
Also kids need to see adults defending them when people are harming them, so they know it is ok for them to stand up and demand justice. Letting it this type of physical abuse (because it was deliberate) go because it is easier sends the wrong message.
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bonyk

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Re: older kids shoving younger ones.
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2012, 03:25:12 PM »
The only thing you could have done is demand that the staff watch the video and throw them out.  However, I'm not sure if I would have done that if Niece got over what happened.

I think what you said to the thug was fine.  I would have hard time remain that civil.

I don't know if I'd let this be the deciding factor in whether or not I'd put my foot down. A bully is a bully and he should face consequences for assaulting her.

I agree.  Also, it is not alway easily apparent if a kid is "over" an incident.  Some kids hide their reaction as a coping mechanism.
Also kids need to see adults defending them when people are harming them, so they know it is ok for them to stand up and demand justice. Letting it this type of physical abuse (because it was deliberate) go because it is easier sends the wrong message.

I wouldn't let it go because it is easier; I'd let it go because I don't want to send her the message that she should be upset if she is not.

LeveeWoman

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Re: older kids shoving younger ones.
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2012, 03:36:32 PM »
The only thing you could have done is demand that the staff watch the video and throw them out.  However, I'm not sure if I would have done that if Niece got over what happened.

I think what you said to the thug was fine.  I would have hard time remain that civil.

I don't know if I'd let this be the deciding factor in whether or not I'd put my foot down. A bully is a bully and he should face consequences for assaulting her.

I agree.  Also, it is not alway easily apparent if a kid is "over" an incident.  Some kids hide their reaction as a coping mechanism.
Also kids need to see adults defending them when people are harming them, so they know it is ok for them to stand up and demand justice. Letting it this type of physical abuse (because it was deliberate) go because it is easier sends the wrong message.

I wouldn't let it go because it is easier; I'd let it go because I don't want to send her the message that she should be upset if she is not.

Her being upset is not the focus for me. For me, it's stopping someone from assaulting others.

The Wild One, Forever

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Re: older kids shoving younger ones.
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2012, 04:34:42 PM »
What a revolting child. I think you handled it perfectly and I'm glad the aquarium staff responded so promptly.

Right on both things.

That lack of parenting is disturbing.

Best case scenario is that the pusher kid turns out to be an entitled SS one day.  Worst case: he turns into a criminal.  That's what lack of parenting can do.  My own kid is not quite sixteen, so not much older than that brat, and if he ever thought of behaving like that, he'd have his laptop and xBox taken away so fast, his head would spin.  (Thankfully, he is lovely with little kids, and his younger cousins adore him.)
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AngelBarchild

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Re: older kids shoving younger ones.
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2012, 06:53:21 PM »
What a revolting child. I think you handled it perfectly and I'm glad the aquarium staff responded so promptly.

Right on both things.

That lack of parenting is disturbing.

Best case scenario is that the pusher kid turns out to be an entitled SS one day.  Worst case: he turns into a criminal.  That's what lack of parenting can do.  My own kid is not quite sixteen, so not much older than that brat, and if he ever thought of behaving like that, he'd have his laptop and xBox taken away so fast, his head would spin.  (Thankfully, he is lovely with little kids, and his younger cousins adore him.)

Or maybe he turns into a saint that spends all his spare time feeding the homeless, while working on a cure for cancer. This kid did one mean thing, and now his only options is to grow up as a special snowflake, or a criminal. You can not predict a person's entire future based solely on one mean act as a child.

LeveeWoman

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Re: older kids shoving younger ones.
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2012, 07:14:53 PM »
What a revolting child. I think you handled it perfectly and I'm glad the aquarium staff responded so promptly.

Right on both things.

That lack of parenting is disturbing.

Best case scenario is that the pusher kid turns out to be an entitled SS one day.  Worst case: he turns into a criminal.  That's what lack of parenting can do.  My own kid is not quite sixteen, so not much older than that brat, and if he ever thought of behaving like that, he'd have his laptop and xBox taken away so fast, his head would spin.  (Thankfully, he is lovely with little kids, and his younger cousins adore him.)

Or maybe he turns into a saint that spends all his spare time feeding the homeless, while working on a cure for cancer. This kid did one mean thing, and now his only options is to grow up as a special snowflake, or a criminal. You can not predict a person's entire future based solely on one mean act as a child.

From the original post:

1. She shoved her so hard she fell into the corner of the tank and was crying. I told kid that he had hurt her, and 2. he replied with a surly "So, I wanted to be there, she should have moved when I told her to." His mother came over to see why I was speaking to her kid and I told her that he had shoved and hurt Niece. 3. Mother could not have cared less. Then the younger brother of Pusherboy decided he wanted in, and 4. Pusherboy shoved her again, My sister ( Niece's mom got her out of there and went to talk to staff) and I asked Nephew if he was ok. 5. Hearing this Pusherboy said "if he is, he won't be for long." At which point I told him he Would.Not.Shove.Nephew, or any other child again. And myself and a father put ourselves very close to our respective kids.

6. After the shark feeding the kid who was shoving, was laughing to his buddy about Niece crying being "cool"

Sharnita

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Re: older kids shoving younger ones.
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2012, 07:28:01 PM »
I agree that you can't say he will be a criminal but I have had multiple kids that age who were criminals and there certainly are some troubling signs.  He pushed a child half his age into something hard, pushed her again and took pleasure from it. He threatened to push another kid. He showed no shame or fear in front of adults who clearly did not approve of his behavior.  His primary role model saw nothing wrong with what he was doing and did not correct him. His own friend's disapproval didn't phase him. He did it in the middle of a large group of people without shame or fear.

Certainly none of that guarantees a life of crime but it certain;y does not make the future of sainthood seem real promising, at least at this point.  I think we would all hope he does indeed have an epiphany but I think confronting the behavior might be instrumental in that epiphany.

LeveeWoman

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Re: older kids shoving younger ones.
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2012, 07:31:24 PM »
I agree that you can't say he will be a criminal but I have had multiple kids that age who were criminals and there certainly are some troubling signs.  He pushed a child half his age into something hard, pushed her again and took pleasure from it. He threatened to push another kid. He showed no shame or fear in front of adults who clearly did not approve of his behavior.  His primary role model saw nothing wrong with what he was doing and did not correct him. His own friend's disapproval didn't phase him. He did it in the middle of a large group of people without shame or fear.

Certainly none of that guarantees a life of crime but it certain;y does not make the future of sainthood seem real promising, at least at this point.  I think we would all hope he does indeed have an epiphany but I think confronting the behavior might be instrumental in that epiphany.

Especially if that epiphany was helped along by the aquarium's authorities.

AngelBarchild

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Re: older kids shoving younger ones.
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2012, 08:08:16 PM »
What a revolting child. I think you handled it perfectly and I'm glad the aquarium staff responded so promptly.

Right on both things.

That lack of parenting is disturbing.

Best case scenario is that the pusher kid turns out to be an entitled SS one day.  Worst case: he turns into a criminal.  That's what lack of parenting can do.  My own kid is not quite sixteen, so not much older than that brat, and if he ever thought of behaving like that, he'd have his laptop and xBox taken away so fast, his head would spin.  (Thankfully, he is lovely with little kids, and his younger cousins adore him.)

Or maybe he turns into a saint that spends all his spare time feeding the homeless, while working on a cure for cancer. This kid did one mean thing, and now his only options is to grow up as a special snowflake, or a criminal. You can not predict a person's entire future based solely on one mean act as a child.

From the original post:

1. She shoved her so hard she fell into the corner of the tank and was crying. I told kid that he had hurt her, and 2. he replied with a surly "So, I wanted to be there, she should have moved when I told her to." His mother came over to see why I was speaking to her kid and I told her that he had shoved and hurt Niece. 3. Mother could not have cared less. Then the younger brother of Pusherboy decided he wanted in, and 4. Pusherboy shoved her again, My sister ( Niece's mom got her out of there and went to talk to staff) and I asked Nephew if he was ok. 5. Hearing this Pusherboy said "if he is, he won't be for long." At which point I told him he Would.Not.Shove.Nephew, or any other child again. And myself and a father put ourselves very close to our respective kids.

6. After the shark feeding the kid who was shoving, was laughing to his buddy about Niece crying being "cool"

None of this predicts that he will grow up to be a criminal. My point is you can never judge how someone is going to turn out based on one incident from their child hood. My parents were crap, and I was mean to my little brother. Now I'm a 35 year old happy house wife with a child of my own, the best husband in the world, and a whole bunch of people who love me. You can't condemn a person forever, based on an one observation of bad behavior, or the fact that they have a crappy parent. Heck how many people on this forum have told us they had crappy parents, and they turned out (mostly ;) ) to be good people.

None of this excuses his bad behavior, I just don't see how you can predict someone's entire future when we are missing 99.999% of the information about them

Ten million things will happen between now and his adult hood, that will shape him into a man, in good ways and in bad. This may be one of them but we will never know.
Never disregarded a child's unique ability to grow, learn, and change.

Sharnita

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Re: older kids shoving younger ones.
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2012, 08:16:42 PM »
I think the response to his behavior is one of the things that will happen  to him and calling him on it will help him become a good person.  Letting it slide because the child her hurt doesn't seem upset isn't actually doing him any favors. 

There is also the reality that there are a lot of kids who do irreversible, adult acts before they reach adulthood. I have known 14 year olds on tethers and I have had 14 year olds who have killed people so the idea that "becoming a criminal" is some distant potential outcome in the future might not be entirely accurate.  He is already assaulting  a strange little kid in public, threatening others, showing no fear or remorse when he is being caught - he wouldn't have to be an adult to become a criminal.

LeveeWoman

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Re: older kids shoving younger ones.
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2012, 08:40:52 PM »
What a revolting child. I think you handled it perfectly and I'm glad the aquarium staff responded so promptly.

Right on both things.

That lack of parenting is disturbing.

Best case scenario is that the pusher kid turns out to be an entitled SS one day.  Worst case: he turns into a criminal.  That's what lack of parenting can do.  My own kid is not quite sixteen, so not much older than that brat, and if he ever thought of behaving like that, he'd have his laptop and xBox taken away so fast, his head would spin.  (Thankfully, he is lovely with little kids, and his younger cousins adore him.)

Or maybe he turns into a saint that spends all his spare time feeding the homeless, while working on a cure for cancer. This kid did one mean thing, and now his only options is to grow up as a special snowflake, or a criminal. You can not predict a person's entire future based solely on one mean act as a child.

From the original post:

1. She shoved her so hard she fell into the corner of the tank and was crying. I told kid that he had hurt her, and 2. he replied with a surly "So, I wanted to be there, she should have moved when I told her to." His mother came over to see why I was speaking to her kid and I told her that he had shoved and hurt Niece. 3. Mother could not have cared less. Then the younger brother of Pusherboy decided he wanted in, and 4. Pusherboy shoved her again, My sister ( Niece's mom got her out of there and went to talk to staff) and I asked Nephew if he was ok. 5. Hearing this Pusherboy said "if he is, he won't be for long." At which point I told him he Would.Not.Shove.Nephew, or any other child again. And myself and a father put ourselves very close to our respective kids.

6. After the shark feeding the kid who was shoving, was laughing to his buddy about Niece crying being "cool"

None of this predicts that he will grow up to be a criminal. My point is you can never judge how someone is going to turn out based on one incident from their child hood. My parents were crap, and I was mean to my little brother. Now I'm a 35 year old happy house wife with a child of my own, the best husband in the world, and a whole bunch of people who love me. You can't condemn a person forever, based on an one observation of bad behavior, or the fact that they have a crappy parent. Heck how many people on this forum have told us they had crappy parents, and they turned out (mostly ;) ) to be good people.

None of this excuses his bad behavior, I just don't see how you can predict someone's entire future when we are missing 99.999% of the information about them

Ten million things will happen between now and his adult hood, that will shape him into a man, in good ways and in bad. This may be one of them but we will never know.
Never disregarded a child's unique ability to grow, learn, and change.

I don't believe I was the one who predicted he would wind up in the criminal system and/or become a special snowflake. All I did originally was point out that what he did was not, as you said, "one mean act".

His actions were not mean; they were violent. (I think mean includes such things as sticking out your tongue and waggling your fingers in your ears, and the like.)

And, to top it off, his words were dismissive and threatening.

"So, I wanted to be there, she should have moved when I told her to." "if he is, he won't be for long." 

The "so" was dismissive. The "she should have moved when I told her to" and "if he ies, he won't be for long" both are threatening.

Now, all that said, my initial observation was that the aquarium's officials reacted completely inappropriately. They refused to take action because they didn't see it despite the fact that they had juvenile victims who could tell what happened, as well as adult witnesses. What more would it take for them to take actions? Flowing blood and broken bones?

If parents refuse to take responsibility for their children's actions, as the mother of the perp apparently refused to do, then it is up to authorities to intervene. I am in no way saying that the victims' parents were not allowed to say anything. I am saying that this was a situation in which the venue's authorities dropped the ball.