Etiquette School is in session! > "Have you tried the bean dip?"

Delicious post-putdown beandip

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Iris:

--- Quote from: kareng57 on October 13, 2012, 09:49:33 PM ---Okay, I know you won't want to hear this.  But anyway....

While I will agree that your mom should have kept her comments to herself - she could be right.  Your daughter is about 14 months old, right?  Most respected child-care experts would not consider that to be "ready" for potty training - generally, more like 18 months, minimum.  It's true that parents can sit a child on this age on the potty and possibly get results - but the child is not really "trained", as in recognising the signals that the body is giving.  She's likely simply attempting to do what is expected - and honestly, twice is not really that big of a deal.  Yes, it might be to you, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean that you have to expect everyone else to be just as excited.

Your child, your decision of course.  But to an extent I can understand where your mom is coming from.  I will probably become a grandma in the next five years or so, and TBH I'd find it kind of distressing if the parents were attempting potty-training so early.  I would likely not say anything, but I'd be concerned.  Grandparents are allowed to be concerned.

--- End quote ---

I think it's one of those fashions that have come around again. I know my Grandmother held her children over the pottie from age about 3 months - not with any view to training them, but simply because she had to boil their nappies over an open fire so anything caught meant one less nappy for her. That was late 30s early 40s. I have friends now who do the same thing with their babies as soon as their babies have head control as an environmental thing, saving on nappy usage. One of the ladies at work started putting her 12 month old on the pottie before bath simply because she noticed that she does do a wee at that time every day. I wouldn't even really call it toilet training tbh, rather taking advantage of the parents' knowledge of the child's routines and creating associations.

kareng57:

--- Quote from: Iris on October 13, 2012, 09:58:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: kareng57 on October 13, 2012, 09:49:33 PM ---Okay, I know you won't want to hear this.  But anyway....

While I will agree that your mom should have kept her comments to herself - she could be right.  Your daughter is about 14 months old, right?  Most respected child-care experts would not consider that to be "ready" for potty training - generally, more like 18 months, minimum.  It's true that parents can sit a child on this age on the potty and possibly get results - but the child is not really "trained", as in recognising the signals that the body is giving.  She's likely simply attempting to do what is expected - and honestly, twice is not really that big of a deal.  Yes, it might be to you, and that's fine, but it doesn't mean that you have to expect everyone else to be just as excited.

Your child, your decision of course.  But to an extent I can understand where your mom is coming from.  I will probably become a grandma in the next five years or so, and TBH I'd find it kind of distressing if the parents were attempting potty-training so early.  I would likely not say anything, but I'd be concerned.  Grandparents are allowed to be concerned.

--- End quote ---

I think it's one of those fashions that have come around again. I know my Grandmother held her children over the pottie from age about 3 months - not with any view to training them, but simply because she had to boil their nappies over an open fire so anything caught meant one less nappy for her. That was late 30s early 40s. I have friends now who do the same thing with their babies as soon as their babies have head control as an environmental thing, saving on nappy usage. One of the ladies at work started putting her 12 month old on the pottie before bath simply because she noticed that she does do a wee at that time every day. I wouldn't even really call it toilet training tbh, rather taking advantage of the parents' knowledge of the child's routines and creating associations.

--- End quote ---


Of course, I agree completely.  In generations past, many parents did early training (sometimes even using enemas!) simply to minimise diaper use - often, they had to be hand-washed - that's certainly understandable motivation.  And sometimes, with a co-operative baby, it did work, at least temporarily.

But one problem is that quite often it stops working after a short time, especially if the child has been "performing" simply because the parent has recognised the "right" time.  Many people would assert that it's Mom who is trained, rather than Baby.  The issue is -   now that Knitterley has opened up the subject, her parents/sisters are free to keep asking how the training is going.  And if it's stalled - that's one more conflict.  "See, we told you so!" etc. .....

Iris:
^You may well be right on the training issue, but I'm absolutely certain from your posts on here that no matter what you thought privately with your future grandchild you wouldn't be as openly disbelieving/hostile as Knitterly's mother. I'm sure in the future should I become a grandmother I'll think that DDs are doing some things 'wrong', but I hope that it doesn't come to the point that I've driven them away with my negativity, which seems to be what's happening here.

If my daughters were attempting to train their hypothetical children using punishments or shame then I may feel the need to speak up, but if I just thought it was a bit early and it turned out I was right and after a few times it didn't work I wouldn't say anything other than "Oh, you've decided to give it a rest? That's fine, whatever you think is best, dear. It will happen when you're all ready." I should admit that I'm probably a bit biased because I really lacked confidence with DD1, and listened to my mother's (well intentioned and politely expressed but a bit overbearing) advice too much. My fault entirely, of course, but it did make DD1's babyhood more difficult than it should have been. With DD2 I was more confident, listened to the advice politely, but only followed that which I felt might work for us. Possible due to my experience I still think Knitterly would be best off just not feeding her mother any information. Perhaps it is too early for proper training, but it's unlikely to hurt so there's no need for her mother to comment. Especially since it's a pattern.

O'Dell:
I dunno...everything I read about your mom suggests that she'll "potty" all over any info you give her about yourself and by extension LK. Then she was all smiles and agreeable when it was your husband but with a PA jab at you? Eh...

She's got problems. If you want to maintain your sanity *and* your politeness with her, then maybe you should start disengaging earlier in the conversation. You are getting there with the bean dip but be a bit quicker on the draw.

Mom: What?!  Oh, no, Knitterly, you can't push her like that.  She's not ready.  She's too little.
Me: (putting on my best confused face) Oh no, she actually went.  Twice.  She went both times we put her on.
Mom: (rolling her eyes like a 15 year old) So in other words you just got lucky.
(uh, pardon me?!  Isn't that the very definition of early potty training?  Lots of luck and good timing?  Maybe the first time was luck, but is sitting for 10 minutes still just luck?)
Me: Is the beandip ready in the kitchen?  Can I help you get anything together?

You can also collect and practice using some more neutral comments to ease into the bean dip. "If you say so" "I'll keep that in mind" "Thank you for your concern" "We'll see" that sort of thing to end that line of discussion. And you can also offer the bean dip to someone else after turning from your mother altogether.

Today it's potty training. You've still got many *many* milestones to get thru with LK before she's of age and off on her own. And chances are that every one of them will have these type of comments from your mother. You're on the right track withholding some info from her, but that won't always be possible with other family around.

I also think maybe you should use your husband a little. My mother can be the same way with me, but she's very submissive toward men she likes. Weird, but I use it when need be. If I request something that I want but pretend it's on my husband's behalf, she goes along with it.  ::) If your mother is like that, you might consider having him be the heavy. I know that the opposite to the advice usually given where each half of a couple deals with their own family. But there are exceptions like mine and possibly yours.

kareng57:

--- Quote from: Iris on October 13, 2012, 10:31:27 PM ---^You may well be right on the training issue, but I'm absolutely certain from your posts on here that no matter what you thought privately with your future grandchild you wouldn't be as openly disbelieving/hostile as Knitterly's mother. I'm sure in the future should I become a grandmother I'll think that DDs are doing some things 'wrong', but I hope that it doesn't come to the point that I've driven them away with my negativity, which seems to be what's happening here.

If my daughters were attempting to train their hypothetical children using punishments or shame then I may feel the need to speak up, but if I just thought it was a bit early and it turned out I was right and after a few times it didn't work I wouldn't say anything other than "Oh, you've decided to give it a rest? That's fine, whatever you think is best, dear. It will happen when you're all ready." I should admit that I'm probably a bit biased because I really lacked confidence with DD1, and listened to my mother's (well intentioned and politely expressed but a bit overbearing) advice too much. My fault entirely, of course, but it did make DD1's babyhood more difficult than it should have been. With DD2 I was more confident, listened to the advice politely, but only followed that which I felt might work for us. Possible due to my experience I still think Knitterly would be best off just not feeding her mother any information. Perhaps it is too early for proper training, but it's unlikely to hurt so there's no need for her mother to comment. Especially since it's a pattern.

--- End quote ---


Re your last couple of sentences - that's it, exactly.  Of course every parent wants to be proud of his/her baby, but when he/she puts all the accomplishments out on mass-media such as FaceBook - then it's inviting positive as well as negative feedback.

I too am prepared to be a no-advice-unless-asked grandma - but if the parents who were attempting to train a barely 14-month-old baby said to me, in exasperation "she went a few times easily, last week!  This week, not at all!" I don't think that I'd have a lot of hesitation in advising that it was too early - back off, and try again in about six months.  Of course no one would have to take my advice, but in the long run it would be far less stress on the parents as well as the child.

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