Author Topic: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you. UPDATE P17  (Read 27477 times)

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Zilla

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2012, 11:35:01 AM »
I am wondering if the differences in how some of us see this depends on how we see the purpose of the run.  If it was "girl time," then yes, it was rude for Stacey to run ahead (and also rude of the other two women).  If the purpose was to get in a 10 mile run, I do not think any of them were rude.  If I were Kelly, EVEN IF I WERE HURT, I would have expected the other women to continue the run unless I clearly asked them for help.


In the name of being fit, I still wouldn't have left her.  Especially knowing that this friend stayed back to run with her as to not leave her alone.  But you are right, there are differences in priorities.

Shoo

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2012, 11:36:27 AM »
I am wondering if the differences in how some of us see this depends on how we see the purpose of the run.  If it was "girl time," then yes, it was rude for Stacey to run ahead (and also rude of the other two women).  If the purpose was to get in a 10 mile run, I do not think any of them were rude.  If I were Kelly, EVEN IF I WERE HURT, I would have expected the other women to continue the run unless I clearly asked them for help.

In a park, where there are known to be muggings, you'd leave a friend behind who was hurt?  Or, if you were the hurt one, you wouldn't expect your friend to stay with you and/or help you get to a safe place?

gramma dishes

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2012, 11:37:23 AM »
Stacy and Kelly weren't just runners.  They were supposedly friends.  Sorry, nothing would stop me from staying behind with my friend.  Especially since the only reason Kelly was 'back there' with Stacy in the first place was because Stacy couldn't keep up the pace.

Yvaine

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2012, 11:37:28 AM »
I am wondering if the differences in how some of us see this depends on how we see the purpose of the run.  If it was "girl time," then yes, it was rude for Stacey to run ahead (and also rude of the other two women).  If the purpose was to get in a 10 mile run, I do not think any of them were rude.  If I were Kelly, EVEN IF I WERE HURT, I would have expected the other women to continue the run unless I clearly asked them for help.

I think that whatever the purpose of the run, a medical emergency involving one of one's companions supersedes whatever else is going on. And that since this is an etiquette site, our priority is determining the etiquette of the situation, not the most efficient way to get a workout. Stacy was rude to leave her rather than help her, rude to lie to the friends, and rude to continue stirring up drama after the fact.

(And as for the purpose of the run, I think in Stacy's mind the purpose was social climbing.)

Yvaine

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2012, 11:38:48 AM »
I dunno. I'm a long-distance runner too but for personal pleasure not for marathons. I'd stop my run in a heartbeat if someone needed help. I have actually done that (stopped to help someone move furniture and to use my cell when their car I was running by broke down).

And in this case it simply wasn't possible for Kelly or Stacy to let the other women know right when it happened.

To the bolded, I would too.  What I keep saying, however, is that I did not see that Kelly made it clear to Stacey that she needed help.

I think it would be clear when she took a misstep (and possibly fell), probably made a sound of pain, and limped afterward. We don't know the exact dialogue, but I think it would be pretty obvious she was hurt.

gramma dishes

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2012, 11:38:54 AM »
...   (And as for the purpose of the run, I think in Stacy's mind the purpose was social climbing.)

Bingo!

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2012, 11:39:00 AM »
In the name of being fit, I still wouldn't have left her.  Especially knowing that this friend stayed back to run with her as to not leave her alone.  But you are right, there are differences in priorities.
Yep, and how different people prefer to handle situaitons.  Like I said, if a running partner asked me to stay with them, I would.  If I were Kelly, I would not have wanted Stacey to stay with me.  If I were Stacey, and Kelly did not ask me to stay with her, I would have assumed she wanted me to run ahead.

camlan

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2012, 11:40:53 AM »
The only way I'd leave an injured friend (male or female) alone on a trail known to have had muggings and other assaults would be if the friend was so injured that they couldn't move and I had to go for help. Otherwise, I'm sticking with them until they are safe. Or if they tell me, in no uncertain terms, to go and leave them alone. They wouldn't have to *ask* for my help, because I would just help them.

One time when I was hiking with a friend, we cut our hike short because we encountered two other hikers, one with a broken leg, trying to get back to the trail head. Sure, we could have continued our hike, but instead we turned around and helped get the injured guy back to safety.

Of the 4 women in the group, Stacy seems to be the most "social" runner and the least interesting in improving her time or distance.

And there's no reason for her to be upset that Kelly drove herself to the hospital instead of waiting for the other three women to get back to the parking lot.

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Two Ravens

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2012, 11:42:27 AM »
She left her injured friend alone in an area people had been mugged in, took off, and then lied to everyone about what had happened. I cannot see her behavior as justifiable.


TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2012, 11:43:33 AM »
In a park, where there are known to be muggings, you'd leave a friend behind who was hurt?  Or, if you were the hurt one, you wouldn't expect your friend to stay with you and/or help you get to a safe place?

I would not expect a friend to stay with me unless I specifically asked her to. If I asked and she refused, I would be upset.  But if I didn't ask, it would have been for a reason - I didn't want the help or for her to stay. Assuming this is broad daylight, I don't think the "mugging" location makes a difference, especially if other people are around.

If I knew my friend was hurt and wanted my help, of course I would help.  I have never left someone without them telling me it is okay and asking me to run ahead.  From the OP, Kelly never expressed to Stacy that she wanted her to stay (or really that she was seriously hurt).

Yvaine

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2012, 11:45:33 AM »
From the OP, Kelly never expressed to Stacy that she wanted her to stay (or really that she was seriously hurt).

We do not know what she said! Their dialogue is not in the story at all. She might have said something or she might not have. We can't say with certainty that she didn't express it.

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2012, 11:46:05 AM »
She left her injured friend alone in an area people had been mugged in, took off, and then lied to everyone about what had happened. I cannot see her behavior as justifiable.

Her behavior later, I agree is not justifiable.  I was responding to her decision to run ahead, which standing alone, I don't think is rude since Kelly did not ask her to stay with her.

Yvaine

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2012, 11:46:56 AM »
She left her injured friend alone in an area people had been mugged in, took off, and then lied to everyone about what had happened. I cannot see her behavior as justifiable.

Her behavior later, I agree is not justifiable.  I was responding to her decision to run ahead, which standing alone, I don't think is rude since Kelly did not ask her to stay with her.

Again, where do you get that she didn't ask? We don't know from the OP whether she asked or not.

TurtleDove

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2012, 11:47:19 AM »
From the OP, Kelly never expressed to Stacy that she wanted her to stay (or really that she was seriously hurt).

We do not know what she said! Their dialogue is not in the story at all. She might have said something or she might not have. We can't say with certainty that she didn't express it.

The OP did not say that Kelly asked Stacey to stay.  For me, as I have repeatedly said, that fact would change my approach to the etiquette issue.

Perfect Circle

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Re: When your lack of empathy astounds the people around you.
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2012, 11:47:28 AM »
She left her injured friend alone in an area people had been mugged in, took off, and then lied to everyone about what had happened. I cannot see her behavior as justifiable.

I totally agree. I would never leave an injured friend alone, unless it was to fetch help. There is no way I can ever agree with Stacy's actions.
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